WAG Liukin just resigned

[scanlri]

My daughters experience at development camps was also great.

She had a refreshing perspective for a young lady. She said “Mom, I believe all of the experiences others are stating. We all grow and learn. Can’t we acknowledge he made mistakes and that he is working to improve? What about forgiveness?”

I will say this, the dialogue in our house has been enlightening. Lots of questions and communications. I believe that is one positive outcome from all of this. I am sure many others are experiencing the same.

 

[BachFlyer]

And I think the above is most unfortunate. Perhaps he did this because it's true to his nature, personality or upbringing. Perhaps he felt that making changes and letting that speak for itself rather than making a statement was the right way to go. If he is particularly private, I could see this thought process making sense to him. I'm not willing to vilify him for it if that's the case. But in the end you are right, he chose this path. And we will probably never know everything.

I do agree with parts of what this Tom Forester posted. It is a complex job and I don't think there are a vast number of coaches out there who have the same experience and qualifications. I don't know if he's learned from his mistakes, but I think it is conceivable that once he was out from under Marta's hawkishness that he maybe had more room now to do things in a healthier way.

Has he made any public statements in support of the victims since Sept 2016, when he took over and this all came out? I genuinely don't know exactly what he has said over the last 18 months as much as I know what Nastia has said. I can understand that anything he might have put out there would have been picked apart by someone, but it's not an excuse to me. Being the NTC is a high profile position and certainly more so now. The situation demands leadership. To me, leadership means finding the words (and trying again if your first attempt falls short), and yes, even taking some hard hits for the team. Anything but walking away silently. Trust also demands words and action. So if he couldn't muster this, even in parting, then I have to say that I still think it's a a good choice that he bows out. I don't care if his feelings are hurt because there are 200+ girls that are hurting even more.

 

[RGmomLV]

My daughters experience at development camps was also great.

She had a refreshing perspective for a young lady. She said “Mom, I believe all of the experiences others are stating. We all grow and learn. Can’t we acknowledge he made mistakes and that he is working to improve? What about forgiveness?”

I will say this, the dialogue in our house has been enlightening. Lots of questions and communications. I believe that is one positive outcome from all of this. I am sure many others are experiencing the same.

I am sure the next NTC will be as refreshing and as delightful as Liukin. He as to pay for what he did before. Nassar can choose to be a nice person from today it does not mean he does not have to pay for what he did.

 

[John]

I said this in another thread.

I tend to believe his past athletes, but this does not mean he hasn't changed. Maybe he has. He still needed to speak to the victims own his past actions and demonstrate he has changed. An apology and ownership would go far. He needed to lead. Possibly he can think about everything and make a more profound statement, one befitting the National Team Coordinator. None of this will be easy.

My Two Cents.

 

[bookworm]

My daughters experience at development camps was also great.

.

My daughter's experience at the camps back in the day, with Marta, was great as well...and she was never touched by Nassar when down there... but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be changing things so no one's kid ever has to be sexually, physically or emotionally abused by any USAG employee in the future.

I get that a lot of folks had positive NTD camp experiences with Valeri, and I actually think he probably was ok for that beginning elite grouping but when the gymnasts got older and closer to their goals of Worlds and Olympics and even NCAA, that seems to be when he ramped up the unacceptable behaviors. And if he had changed, like John said above, he needed to speak up and lead , but he didn't so he's not there anymore. Secrecy isn't going to work anymore going forward with USAG.

 

[strawberries]

I stumbled across this post. I believe it is by Tom Forester, posted on his business page. I found it important enough to share. I know we all want to get rid of anyone who has any hint of the stink of the "old regime", but I believe that these voices and stories are also important to listen to. There are a lot of people hurting because of this.

https://www.facebook.com/unevenbarbootcamp/posts/1800123836687448

Thank you for posting this. It is very, very good, and a missing piece to this discussion.

 

[GymFan96]

I find it irrelevant how so many are saying your kid had a good experience at camp with Valeri. Unless your kid was going on high stakes international assignments, why would Valeri have any reason to unleash his wrath on them? Of course he was nice to y’all. He’s very two-faced.

Anyway I totally don’t get why some people are acting like him resigning is a huge loss. It’s not like he has some kind of magic touch for creating winners. Nastia was an extremely lucky fluke whose style happened to align perfectly with that year’s code.

Then Tom is praising how great Valeri’s “current system” is really? To me it’s cirruption and favoritism. There’s NO WAY Loxklear deserved to be on that World Team without her inbars.

 

[Flyaway]

I find it irrelevant how so many are saying your kid had a good experience at camp with Valeri. Unless your kid was going on high stakes international assignments, why would Valeri have any reason to unleash his wrath on them? Of course he was nice to y’all. He’s very two-faced.

Anyway I totally don’t get why some people are acting like him resigning is a huge loss. It’s not like he has some kind of magic touch for creating winners. Nastia was an extremely lucky fluke whose style happened to align perfectly with that year’s code.

OK. I don't think comments like this are fair. Here we are trying to make space to hear the girls/women who did not have a good experience with Liukin/Marta/NTC/etc. and yet we have to completely shut down anyone who DID have a good experience? If we want USAG/NTC to grow and learn, we need to be willing to hear from ALL sides. Not just the ones that corroborate our already established opinion. I believe there is a way to make space and hear from BOTH. True movement forward is somewhere in there.

 

[scanlri]

I didn’t say that losing Valeri was a big loss. What I did say was my dd’s experience was different AND that a positive outcome was the dialogue it opened in our home.

Growth and change can’t occur without a dialogue. For everyone involved. Thanks to everyone on here that keeps the dialog open.

 

[GymFan96]

One more thing: I think it’s obvious Valeri’s real reason for quitting was because he didn’t want to be faced with the tough questions he would inevitably have to answer:

-How did everyone from WOGA seemingly escape the Nassar abuse?
-Why was Nastia so fiercely defending Nassar when the story broke?
-Why didn’t Nastia or Valeri, during all their time at USAG, ever oppose the system where Nassar sees girls all alone, going in their cabins, etc? That falls well within Nastia’s domain as an athlete rep.

Valeri looks terrible in this. At best, he’s unbelievably incompetent and ignorant about working with children. At worst, he knew about Nassar.

 

[Hollowarchkick]

Got any more fun conspiracy theories?

 

[RGmomLV]

In nassar’s case, one is too many. Imagine nassar quiting abusing athletes a few years ago (and FBI did not search his house) I could see how difficult to charge and sentence him with so many parents and athelets try to defense him. Same thing with Liukin, both him and his daughter have demonstrate they are are set example for their position.yes he is nice to your daughter why would he not too? Is he expecting your daughters to bring world gold and olympic gold so he could get his $$ bonus and promotion? Are your daughters “fat” for his standard? Are your daughters disappointed him in big meet? If not why wouldn’t he be nice to them. y

I didn’t say that losing Valeri was a big loss. What I did say was my dd’s experience was different AND that a positive outcome was the dialogue it opened in our home.

Growth and change can’t occur without a dialogue. For everyone involved. Thanks to everyone on here that keeps the dialog open.

 

[vagymmomma]

I find it irrelevant how so many are saying your kid had a good experience at camp with Valeri. Unless your kid was going on high stakes international assignments, why would Valeri have any reason to unleash his wrath on them? Of course he was nice to y’all. He’s very two-faced.

Anyway I totally don’t get why some people are acting like him resigning is a huge loss. It’s not like he has some kind of magic touch for creating winners. Nastia was an extremely lucky fluke whose style happened to align perfectly with that year’s code.

Then Tom is praising how great Valeri’s “current system” is really? To me it’s cirruption and favoritism. There’s NO WAY Loxklear deserved to be on that World Team without her inbars.

Clearly you despise the Liukins (and maybe with good reason), but don't you think it is a bit harsh to say that Nastia was a "lucky fluke"? Your points are undermined when you stray from the facts to hyperbole (proofreading would help as well).

 

[sce]

We may be going in circles here but this just kills me http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/03/04/nastia-liukin-larry-nassar-gymnastics/
Nastia Liukin : “I’m completely shocked when I heard all the news,” Liukin said on NBC. “Every encounter that I had with him was professional. My whole experience on the national team with USA Gymnastics was nothing but positive.”

Her Dad was always with her, since he was her coach. Her whole experience was very different than most other gymnasts.

 

[MabelSt]

My daughters experience at development camps was also great.

She had a refreshing perspective for a young lady. She said “Mom, I believe all of the experiences others are stating. We all grow and learn. Can’t we acknowledge he made mistakes and that he is working to improve? What about forgiveness?”

I will say this, the dialogue in our house has been enlightening. Lots of questions and communications. I believe that is one positive outcome from all of this. I am sure many others are experiencing the same.

Has he openly acknowledged his past coaching methods and apologized for causing multiple eating disorders? If he accepted responsibility, apologized, and showed that he changed I think that’s one thing, but to act like he’s a victim because he’s being called out on old behavior is not the right move.

 

[Flyaway]

Has he openly acknowledged his past coaching methods and apologized for causing multiple eating disorders? If he accepted responsibility, apologized, and showed that he changed I think that’s one thing, but to act like he’s a victim because he’s being called out on old behavior is not the right move.

This is what I'm hearing a lot of and I can definitely understand the sentiment. What I gather is that many are willing to accept the fact that Liukin has changed, but only if he backs up the claim with public acknowledgement of his past wrongdoings and examples of policies that have been set in place to prevent that sort of abusive behavior again. I do not know what he's said to the NTC staff, coaches and NT members to know if he's done that privately, but to my knowledge he made no public declaration. So in that regard, I understand why people are not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like I said above, him resigning without opening dialogue is unfortunate. And it further hurts not only his former gymnasts but the future ones as well.

 

[tomtnt]

remember, it's not how you treat your superstars that count, but how you treat the ones you doesn't fit your ideal body type or the one who made a mistake at an important meet.. seems like Aly and Simone both loved Marta - she probably treated them like royalty with all the success they brought.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

I find it irrelevant how so many are saying your kid had a good experience at camp with Valeri. Unless your kid was going on high stakes international assignments, why would Valeri have any reason to unleash his wrath on them? Of course he was nice to y’all. He’s very two-faced.

Anyway I totally don’t get why some people are acting like him resigning is a huge loss. It’s not like he has some kind of magic touch for creating winners. Nastia was an extremely lucky fluke whose style happened to align perfectly with that year’s code.

Then Tom is praising how great Valeri’s “current system” is really? To me it’s cirruption and favoritism. There’s NO WAY Loxklear deserved to be on that World Team without her inbars.

To say that Nastia’s win was a “lucky fluke” is harsh, unfair, and just downright petty and irrelevant. She is tone deaf right now to be sure, but she earned her title of Olympic Champion. Sure the code worked in her favor, but you still don’t win All Around at the Olympics as a lucky fluke.

 

[Seeker]

One more thing: I think it’s obvious Valeri’s real reason for quitting was because he didn’t want to be faced with the tough questions he would inevitably have to answer:

-How did everyone from WOGA seemingly escape the Nassar abuse?
-Why was Nastia so fiercely defending Nassar when the story broke?
-Why didn’t Nastia or Valeri, during all their time at USAG, ever oppose the system where Nassar sees girls all alone, going in their cabins, etc? That falls well within Nastia’s domain as an athlete rep.

Valeri looks terrible in this. At best, he’s unbelievably incompetent and ignorant about working with children. At worst, he knew about Nassar.

I think you may be confused about the role of the NTC. No one that ever went to camp and didn’t raise the red flag in any of this stuff comes out smelling like a rose, but Valeri wasn’t the NTC when all of these things happened. Even if he was, the NTC isn’t solely responsible for everything under the sun and every USAG policy.

Valeri’s role aside, we cannot vilify every coach or there will be no one left to help us move into the future. People should be allowed to show they’ve taken the opportunity to learn and change.

 

[azara]

My cautious attitude towards Liukin is shifting into negative territory: http://eng.gymnovosti.com/valeri-liukin-everyones-looking-for-someone-to-blame/. He gave this short statement to Russian media.

“The main reason for my resignation is the scandal with the doctor. Everyone is now looking for someone to blame even though I had nothing to do with the main [team] staff at the time”.

I do not think he has grasped the reason people are against him. His relation to the Nassar case is solely that Nassar sparked a sport-wide investigation into generally abusive and unsavoury practices. Whether or not you think it's fair, every wrong that coaches and gymnastics-affiliated individuals have done in the past are being discovered, scrutinised, and punished at the moment. Valeri's past is far from squeaky-clean, regardless of what he is like now, and without his initiation of a transparent conversation, he has gotten hammered. I'm not sure his position was ever tenable given how closely he was affiliated with the "old guard", but I do think he could have bowed out gracefully had he been more open. Clear conversation about his past practices vs. his present ones, an explanation of his ethos and methods as a coach, accepting past wrongs, and specifically outlining how and why he changed would have made a big difference to perceptions of him. Although I think he'd have to resign anyway, it would be primarily for association, not for his reprehensible approach, which I should think is preferable.

Although I personally think his strategies as a coach were totally unacceptable and correctly disqualified him from the NTC position, I would be open to hearing about how he has evolved. I do believe that people can change and that he is not an evil person. I believe all of you who interacted with him and liked him. He is nevertheless the product of an old system and it is sad, but perhaps unsurprising, that he has employed the baser aspects of that in coaching his gymnasts.

If this post is contradictory, it's because I'm still sorting out my complex feelings about all this. I am not totally on board with the "his past actions have little to do with his position as NTC", but I also disagree that he is an evil person who deserves no forgiveness. I don't think he's Geddert-level awful, but I think he's bad enough that he shouldn't have been NTC. I am reasonably sure that he has missed the point in why some people dislike him.

tl;dr you are all the unwilling subjects of my brain dump as I think through this