Livvy Dunne Editorial

[Anonymous Post]

So I am writing an editorial for English class on the whole Livvy Dunne situation. Our English teacher required us to submit a general subject we were interested in - I put gymnastics - and then he picked the topic. I was wondering if anyone had anything good on the situation? Any good articles or opinions? Thanks in advance!

 

[Anonymous Post]

I'm personally not the biggest fan of Livvy Dunne's noteriety but I'll play devil's advocate. You could say that she's brought a lot of attention to the sport and any time a sport is a focus like that there are some benefits. Perhaps it means that sponsorship in one way or another may benefit gym/gymnasts that may not have gotten it. For example if the gym a popular gymnast uses needs new equipment they may be in a better position to ask for corporate sponsorship. This in turn could free up funds to pay for travel opportunities or tuition breaks for talented athletes who otherwise would not be able to afford them. You may have higher ticket sales for meets. Cons may be things like, exploitation, or negative press on gyms/athletes. Here's a Sports illustrated article which may be a little less spammy than the majority of articles about her: https://www.si.com/college/2023/01/...ty-olivia-dunne-unruly-fans-disrupt-utah-meet

Good luck on your paper!

 

[Anonymous Post]

Not sure what grade we are talking about here. And, what is your definition of the Livvy Dunne situation? There are two potential discussions about her with each being related in a way, one being the NIL money she is making and its impact on the college sport, etc. Plenty of articles out there about that. The second is regarding the sexualization of the athlete and the events that transpired at Utah meet. This is perhaps more controversial but certainly generates a lot of opinion and discussion. Does she have any responsibility in the content that she puts on her various social media platforms? Or is any criticism of her content simply ****-shaming? I havent seen too many editorials discussing this, but Livvy and her mother both have pushed back hard on any criticism of her posts and potential contribution in creating an environment like seen at Utah. You can pull in parallel examples with politicians and social media, etc. Could be an interesting discussion.

 

[Anonymous Post]

I'm not sure why Olivia Dunne is the de facto poster child for the insta [derogatory term removed by mods]/athlete convergence, when Suni Lee is just as... whatever you want to call it

[photo removed by mods]

 

[Anonymous Post]

whatever you want to call it

Beautiful?

 

[Anonymous Post]

Right, that's nothing different from what you see at an Auburn meet. Yet, a sample from Dunne's instagram feed:

[photo removed by the mods]

 

[Anonymous Post]

This is a great opportunity for the OP to mention in her essay that women can wear whatever they want no matter what anyone says. That people will always judge and blame her no matter what she does, and we should work to improve society so a girl can explore fashion and her sexuality safely and without anyone smearing or sneering.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Alright, after discussing this thread in the back office, we've decided to let it proceed, but with the following guidelines:

1) No athlete photos. This is not a universal forum guideline, just a rule for this particular thread. In a discussion about sexualization and objectification of athletes, it's not worth the difficulty of making subjective judgements over what images are acceptable and what aren't, so we're going to avoid the entire issue by saying no athlete photos in this thread.

2) No derogatory terminology for women (or anybody else for that matter).

3) We reserve the right to add guidelines and/or delete posts as we see fit, and may or may not publicly offer any justification for doing so.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Anyway, my own thoughts in no particularly organized order.

Women (and men as well while we're at it) should feel free to wear whatever they like, and should feel free to post pictures of themselves wearing whatever they like. There's nothing wrong with looking good, nothing wrong with taking pride in it, and nothing wrong with sharing pictures of things you take pride in.

The primary reason Dunne is able to make so much money from endorsements is because so many men like looking at her, and the primary reason men like looking at her is because they find her sexy. There is nothing wrong or shameful about Dunne taking advantage of that; I'm just stating the reality of the situation.
We live in a society where people need money to survive. And if you look good enough that you can make money just from looking good, then I see nothing wrong with doing so. Looking good -- and even flaunting one's good looks -- is not in any way an invitation or justification for harassment.

Livvy Dunne deserves respect as an athlete and as a person, completely independent of how she looks or how she makes an income.

Now all of that is a discussion of how things should work for adults in an ideal world. And there are two significant complications to the situation: first, that we don't live in an ideal world, and second, kids are likely to try to emulate Dunne.

In the real world, women who do this sort of thing tend to get subject to harassment (I mean, even more than most women). They shouldn't get harassed, and it shouldn't be their responsibility to try to avoid harassment, but the reality is that it does happen.
Combine this with the fact that a lot of young girls likely see how successful Dunne has been, and may try to emulate her by posting similar sorts of pictures on social media, which potentially puts them at risk of harassment or worse.

I'm not sure how these complications should be addressed. Livvy Dunne is not responsible for the behavior of her followers; that includes both the men who harass her and the young girls who may try to emulate her. It would be great if men were more responsible in their behavior toward women, and it would be great if parents were better able to monitor their kids' behavior on the internet. But standing around saying "wouldn't it be great if" fixes nothing and protects nobody.

I'm not sure what should be done to protect Dunne or her younger fans, and I'm not sure who should be the ones to do it.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Now all of that is a discussion of how things should work for adults in an ideal world. And there are two significant complications to the situation: first, that we don't live in an ideal world, and second, kids are likely to try to emulate Dunne.

In the real world, women who do this sort of thing tend to get subject to harassment (I mean, even more than most women). They shouldn't get harassed, and it shouldn't be their responsibility to try to avoid harassment, but the reality is that it does happen.
Combine this with the fact that a lot of young girls likely see how successful Dunne has been, and may try to emulate her by posting similar sorts of pictures on social media, which potentially puts them at risk of harassment or worse.

I'm not sure how these complications should be addressed. Livvy Dunne is not responsible for the behavior of her followers; that includes both the men who harass her and the young girls who may try to emulate her. It would be great if men were more responsible in their behavior toward women, and it would be great if parents were better able to monitor their kids' behavior on the internet. But standing around saying "wouldn't it be great if" fixes nothing and protects nobody.

I'm not sure what should be done to protect Dunne or her younger fans, and I'm not sure who should be the ones to do it.

Once you put yourself into the public domain you no longer get to chose what kind of responses you get. Actors and musicians have known this for years. Long before SM. They simply don’t read their reviews. Being resilient enough to deal with that is part of being high level “whatever“. But you can’t do something to knowingly attract attention and expect only positive attention. World simply doesn’t work that way. If that’s doesn’t work for someone then they need to make different choices

Regarding the young one’s emulating someone like Ms Dunne. That’s parents the responsibility. And coaches to an extent. What is looks good and works for an 18-22 yr old to wear is not necessarily OK for a 6-8 year olds or even a 13 yr old. Or even a 60 yr old. I wear all sorts of clothes and there is a time and place and age for everything.

 

[Anonymous Post]

Anyway, my own thoughts in no particularly organized order.

Women (and men as well while we're at it) should feel free to wear whatever they like, and should feel free to post pictures of themselves wearing whatever they like. There's nothing wrong with looking good, nothing wrong with taking pride in it, and nothing wrong with sharing pictures of things you take pride in.

The primary reason Dunne is able to make so much money from endorsements is because so many men like looking at her, and the primary reason men like looking at her is because they find her sexy. There is nothing wrong or shameful about Dunne taking advantage of that; I'm just stating the reality of the situation.
We live in a society where people need money to survive. And if you look good enough that you can make money just from looking good, then I see nothing wrong with doing so. Looking good -- and even flaunting one's good looks -- is not in any way an invitation or justification for harassment.

Livvy Dunne deserves respect as an athlete and as a person, completely independent of how she looks or how she makes an income.

Now all of that is a discussion of how things should work for adults in an ideal world. And there are two significant complications to the situation: first, that we don't live in an ideal world, and second, kids are likely to try to emulate Dunne.

In the real world, women who do this sort of thing tend to get subject to harassment (I mean, even more than most women). They shouldn't get harassed, and it shouldn't be their responsibility to try to avoid harassment, but the reality is that it does happen.
Combine this with the fact that a lot of young girls likely see how successful Dunne has been, and may try to emulate her by posting similar sorts of pictures on social media, which potentially puts them at risk of harassment or worse.

I'm not sure how these complications should be addressed. Livvy Dunne is not responsible for the behavior of her followers; that includes both the men who harass her and the young girls who may try to emulate her. It would be great if men were more responsible in their behavior toward women, and it would be great if parents were better able to monitor their kids' behavior on the internet. But standing around saying "wouldn't it be great if" fixes nothing and protects nobody.

I'm not sure what should be done to protect Dunne or her younger fans, and I'm not sure who should be the ones to do it.

This pretty much sums up my opinion too. I find it incredibly disheartening (as well as naive) when the conversation about Dunne and her presentation comes up, people tend to immediately go to their corners. One side clearly disparages her and her approach, the other side immediately goes on defense/attack mode. I too fully support her to wear what she wants and present herself how she wants. But as mentioned, we don't live in a perfect world, and presenting yourself in this manner does have real-world consequences. She clearly understands and appreciates that doing what she does generates more attention and more $. No she is not responsible for the behavior of other independent individuals, but she can be self-aware how her actions might influence others. This is not ****-shaming her or blaming her its just recognizing a real-world cause and effect. I wish we could at least agree on that to have a discussion on how to best allow women and men to express themselves without potential negative side effects.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I wish we could at least agree on that to have a discussion on how to best allow women and men to express themselves without potential negative side effects.

I’m not sure what negative side effects you are referr to, specifically

But realistically it’s just not possible to only have positive things happen.