Parents Lower Level Compulsory Judging

[JBS]

@Gym_mom 22 Thanks for starting this thread... great conversation going on here. Awesome that we have judges chiming in!

 

[Gym_mom 22]

Does anyone know what judges look for in lower level floor and beam routines? Do they want sharpness, do they want more grace? Expression? I know the skill requirements have to be met but what else?

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

Does anyone know what judges look for in lower level floor and beam routines? Do they want sharpness, do they want more grace? Expression? I know the skill requirements have to be met but what else?

My daughter is level 4 and we have been surprised by recent judging which has caused me to ask similar questions. I am hearing about something people refer to as "text errors" which I believe is when the gymnasts moves don't exactly align with how the routine is written in the compulsory handbook. the little bit of research I have done has shown me that this sport (even in these low levels) is way more complicated than I ever thought and there is no way I will be able to guess what score my daughter will be getting unless I truly study it!

 

[Gym_mom 22]

My daughter is level 4 and we have been surprised by recent judging which has caused me to ask similar questions. I am hearing about something people refer to as "text errors" which I believe is when the gymnasts moves don't exactly align with how the routine is written in the compulsory handbook. the little bit of research I have done has shown me that this sport (even in these low levels) is way more complicated than I ever thought and there is no way I will be able to guess what score my daughter will be getting unless I truly study it!

I feel the same way and my research doesn't give me a clear answer. Sometimes she scores well, then next meet the routine looks better but the score is lower. I can't figure it out.

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

I feel the same way and my research doesn't give me a clear answer. Sometimes she scores well, then next meet the routine looks better but the score is lower. I can't figure it out.

Omg! We had the exact same thing happen. She had a routine with two obvious bobbles that scored 0.5 higher than a routine that looked flawless to my untrained eye! It is so frustrating. I can totally relate. I did notice our coaches working on cleaning up little details like arm placement and foot position after the lower score so maybe we will see improvement in the score.

 

[Gym_mom 22]

Omg! We had the exact same thing happen. She had a routine with two obvious bobbles that scored 0.5 higher than a routine that looked flawless to my untrained eye! It is so frustrating. I can totally relate. I did notice our coaches working on cleaning up little details like arm placement and foot position after the lower score so maybe we will see improvement in the score.

Good luck, I hope you see better scores in the future! Also I hope we figure this out!

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

Good luck, I hope you see better scores in the future! Also I hope we figure this out!

Good Luck to you as well! I am in a FB group called Gymnastics Scoring Help and just reading through some of their comments has helped me some. That may be helpful for you.

 

[Gym_mom 22]

Good Luck to you as well! I am in a FB group called Gymnastics Scoring Help and just reading through some of their comments has helped me some. That may be helpful for you.

Awesome, thank you!!

 

[JBS]

Does anyone know what judges look for in lower level floor and beam routines?

We get this question all the time. While many people understand the basic rules of baseball... or soccer... or football... or volleyball... or golf... etc... etc... etc. The general public does not understand gymnastics.

Transparency is key here. The easiest way to get the actual information is to purchase the materials... I would 100% recommend that everyone with a child in compulsory gymnastics owns the routine book. Not so you can coach your own child... but so you can be informed...

Compulsory Program • USA Gymnastics

usagym.org

While the judges come up with the scores... they are operating from the actual rules and routines.

 

[JPC13]

There are definitely subtle things that generate deductions. On beam and floor sickle feet can really hurt your score. They're easy for kids to do and hard for parents to notice

Left is bad, right is good. No parent is going to be able to notice how often a kid is doing that from 30 feet away.

For vault it seems like pre-flight positioning and being suitably hollow gets picked on. On bars shaping and cast height seems to get dinged.

Of course, scores can vary between different judges. My daughter had a meet with multiple judges, each having their scores displayed separately (you're actual score was the average). There were multiple people who were judged 1 to 1.5 points differently between judges. Clearly, there's a great deal of subjectivity.

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

We get this question all the time. While many people understand the basic rules of baseball... or soccer... or football... or volleyball... or golf... etc... etc... etc. The general public does not understand gymnastics.

Transparency is key here. The easiest way to get the actual information is to purchase the materials... I would 100% recommend that everyone with a child in compulsory gymnastics owns the routine book. Not so you can coach your own child... but so you can be informed...

Compulsory Program • USA Gymnastics

usagym.org

While the judges come up with the scores... they are operating from the actual rules and routines.

Can I kind of sidetrack this conversation slightly? I'd love your thoughts, as a coach. I think my daughters coach may be missing some "text errors". One example pointed out to me is that when my daughter (and I have noticed all her teammates do the same) does the stag position during the level 4 mount, she sits on her foot. I was told her foot should go to the side in front of her slightly. I asked my daughter and she said her coaches tell them to sit on their foot. Is this something I should bring up with this coaches? I feel it will come across offensive, like I don't think they know what they are doing. How would you, as a coach, like something like this to be handled?

 

[Gym_mom 22]

There are definitely subtle things that generate deductions. On beam and floor sickle feet can really hurt your score. They're easy for kids to do and hard for parents to notice

Left is bad, right is good. No parent is going to be able to notice how often a kid is doing that from 30 feet away.

For vault it seems like pre-flight positioning and being suitably hollow gets picked on. On bars shaping and cast height seems to get dinged.

Of course, scores can vary between different judges. My daughter had a meet with multiple judges, each having their scores displayed separately (you're actual score was the average). There were multiple people who were judged 1 to 1.5 points differently between judges. Clearly, there's a great deal of subjectivity.

You have been very helpful, thank you!

 

[TheXcelMom]

DIGRESSION V2: How do they see it when the girl is moving so fast! And write it down? And see the next thing boom boom boom like that?

 

[welovethegym]

DIGRESSION V2: How do they see it when the girl is moving so fast! And write it down? And see the next thing boom boom boom like that?

Shorthand writing. You'd be surprised on how fast judges write. But on vault DD got an 8.275 on what I thought was her best vault of the season, but was her lowest score, and I couldn't believe they got so many deductions on a vault that quick!

 

[JBS]

Can I kind of sidetrack this conversation slightly? I'd love your thoughts, as a coach. I think my daughters coach may be missing some "text errors". One example pointed out to me is that when my daughter (and I have noticed all her teammates do the same) does the stag position during the level 4 mount, she sits on her foot. I was told her foot should go to the side in front of her slightly. I asked my daughter and she said her coaches tell them to sit on their foot. Is this something I should bring up with this coaches? I feel it will come across offensive, like I don't think they know what they are doing. How would you, as a coach, like something like this to be handled?

It just says to put the side of the foot on the beam. We do not teach our athletes to sit on their foot.

Overall... I would always recommend talking to the head coach... however... I can't guarantee that it will go well.

As a head coach... I would look into it right way and talk to my beam coach just to make sure we were coaching the routines to the best of our ability... however... I would not throw my coach under the bus in front of a parent. I am always looking for ways to improve our program.

Again... please understand that this may not be the correct way at your gym. Check the team handbook for who to contact with questions.

 

[SupportingHerDreams]

It just says to put the side of the foot on the beam. We do not teach our athletes to sit on their foot.

Overall... I would always recommend talking to the head coach... however... I can't guarantee that it will go well.

As a head coach... I would look into it right way and talk to my beam coach just to make sure we were coaching the routines to the best of our ability... however... I would not throw my coach under the bus in front of a parent. I am always looking for ways to improve our program.

Again... please understand that this may not be the correct way at your gym. Check the team handbook for who to contact with questions.

Thank you! Our gym is so little that the owner is the team coach and he has one assistant that works with him with team. There is also no team handbook. But knowing that the book says the side of the foot is interesting! It may not be a big enough deal to risk how it may make him feel. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Janneke]

I was recorder at vault for one of my daughter's competitions. One of the judges had never judged vault before, so the other judge explained quite a lot. It was absolutely fascinating to listen in. There were so many tiny details. Elbows slightly bent? Deduction. No even acceleration during run? Deduction. Wrong shape? Deductions. The obvious falls and wobbles are easy to spot, but there is usually only one of those, it is the many tiny mistakes that eventually start adding up. I did notice that towards the end of the session I was getting better at spotting the deductions and had a fair idea of the higher scores. Having said that, I totally focused on my daughter's large hop at landing and thought she had not done well, when in fact the rest was very good resulting in first place.....

 

[JPC13]

I was recorder at vault for one of my daughter's competitions. One of the judges had never judged vault before, so the other judge explained quite a lot. It was absolutely fascinating to listen in. There were so many tiny details. Elbows slightly bent? Deduction. No even acceleration during run? Deduction. Wrong shape? Deductions. The obvious falls and wobbles are easy to spot, but there is usually only one of those, it is the many tiny mistakes that eventually start adding up. I did notice that towards the end of the session I was getting better at spotting the deductions and had a fair idea of the higher scores. Having said that, I totally focused on my daughter's large hop at landing and thought she had not done well, when in fact the rest was very good resulting in first place.....

Vault is also really sensitive to your location of view. I was watching some of the little girls vaulting over the table for the first time. From my usual spot everyone looked great. While walking to the bathroom I was able to stand perfectly in line with the table from the side — vaults that looked good from afar looked genuinely scary right on from the side.

It’s hard to get a judge’s view from the stands.

 

[Aussie_coach]

For many years our level 1 competition vault was a straight jump. Level 1 was genera the biggest level. Can you imagine judging 60 straight jumps in one morning.

 

[Gym_mom 22]

I was recorder at vault for one of my daughter's competitions. One of the judges had never judged vault before, so the other judge explained quite a lot. It was absolutely fascinating to listen in. There were so many tiny details. Elbows slightly bent? Deduction. No even acceleration during run? Deduction. Wrong shape? Deductions. The obvious falls and wobbles are easy to spot, but there is usually only one of those, it is the many tiny mistakes that eventually start adding up. I did notice that towards the end of the session I was getting better at spotting the deductions and had a fair idea of the higher scores. Having said that, I totally focused on my daughter's large hop at landing and thought she had not done well, when in fact the rest was very good resulting in first place.....

That's very helpful, thank you!