men's team finals

[bookworm]

Preach @bookworm - These boys need a little tough love. The standard of hoping they hit all events needs to end.

Exactly! We all hold our breaths hoping they'll hit, or at least, "not get as many deductions as usual"...huh? The commentators were even saying that last night about pommel..."ooh major error...ooh another big error...ooh finally a hit routine...and the score won't be as bad as it could be"...since when is this the M.O. of a National Team Program?!

It is said that the women's program doesn't compete a skill that isn't hit greater than 90% of the time...and will scale it back (as much as their skill sets have lesser elements) to have hit elements versus riskier, frequently missed skills. They are evidently better students at the risk versus reward than the men's program.

 

[skschlag]

Exactly! We all hold our breaths hoping they'll hit, or at least, "not get as many deductions as usual"...huh? The commentators were even saying that last night about pommel..."ooh major error...ooh another big error...ooh finally a hit routine...and the score won't be as bad as it could be"...since when is this the M.O. of a National Team Program?!

It is said that the women's program doesn't compete a skill that isn't hit greater than 90% of the time...and will scale it back (as much as their skill sets have lesser elements) to have hit elements versus riskier, frequently missed skills. They are evidently better students at the risk versus reward than the men's program.

And I think part of it is that if one person isn't bringing it, then the women have 10 more in line that can jump right in. Men, maybe 1, 2. That competition keeps people sharp.

 

[bookworm]

And I think part of it is that if one person isn't bringing it, then the women have 10 more in line that can jump right in. Men, maybe 1, 2. That competition keeps people sharp.

I get that there are less men doing any level of gymnastics but my point is that their top 6 (who have been doing it for a while) continue to be inconsistent EVERY SINGLE MEET....you'd think if there were less people, there would be more control and it would be easier to round them up in one place several times a year. Bottom line, the men's team needs a change in approach because their current one isn't cutting it...

 

[skschlag]

I get that there are less men doing any level of gymnastics but my point is that their top 6 (who have been doing it for a while) continue to be inconsistent EVERY SINGLE MEET....you'd think if there were less people, there would be more control and it would be easier to round them up in one place several times a year. Bottom line, the men's team needs a change in approach because their current one isn't cutting it...

Oh i agree. Completely. I just think it needs to start at the college level, keeping more boys in gymnastics longer, putting more boy s out who want to coach, thus creating more opportunities for JO boys. Our gym has one part time assistant boys' coach, and 8 girls 'coaches. The boys' coach coaches 15 boys. 4 of the girls' coaches coach 10. together. Better coaching = better gymnasts

 

[Iwannabemargo]

just a bye the bye, I can understand the points raised but we don't have college gymnastics in Europe, if not the rest of the world, and we have an even smaller pool of gymnasts to draw on (your population is approximately 5 times ours).

I think whilst the system obviously helps, it can't be blamed for performance.

 

[skschlag]

Yes, you are right. I was just comparing the men here to the women here since that seems to be the thing. But yes, it is successful in other countries without these opportunities as well.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

The US women perform like winners with smiles and moderate celebration after each routine
The US men act like a winners after every routine wheather its a hit, average or miss

 

[Sasha]

just a bye the bye, I can understand the points raised but we don't have college gymnastics in Europe, if not the rest of the world, and we have an even smaller pool of gymnasts to draw on (your population is approximately 5 times ours).

I think whilst the system obviously helps, it can't be blamed for performance.

What is the system and support like for the UK men out of curiousity?

Are boys selected at a pretty early age in an elite stream? Do they train together? What happens at college age? Do they go to college and train in some centralized place? Or they skip college to train gym full time? If not in college (or beyond college age), are they fully sponsored to train full time?

Just curious how it works there, if you know

(p.s. Max fans in this household )

 

[Empowered]

We may have a huge pool, but our most talented athletes are not steered to the sport. There's a bit of a stigma being a male gymnast in the US. I don't think that's as common in Europe or Asia. I find it to be utterly ridiculous.

I have a good friend with a very small son. I encouraged him to put his son in gym. The response? That's a girls sport, he'll play baseball. It's a shame because parents force under sized boys into sports they have no future in because they're more "prestigious."

 

[Iwannabemargo]

So in reply, yes we do select early and have a separate elite stream. @coach1234 may be more knowledgeable than me as her club has a few elite boys.

No, they don't train together but we have a few High Performance Centres that have the facilities and coaches and if a lad is national team level he will normally move to one of those clubs. We also have regular camps at our National Training Centre at Lillishall.

Financially unless you are in the national squad there is no assistance.

Educationally, most of these boys are training so much they are on a modified school schedule which means that they will not academically be able to go to a UK university, our entry standards are quite high and most professional sports people ( and lets face it at 35+ hours a week its a full time job) don't go into further education, with the notable exception of cricketers, rugby players and rowers.

But looking at the current team, Nile is at Leeds, Max and Brin are at South Essex, Kristian is at Earls in the Midlands, Louis is at Huntingdon so spread around the country.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

I think the reputation of gymnastics has improved with the success of our boys team, When my son started he was the only boy at his club and it was seen as a girls sport (2005), but we have a lot more boys interested now.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks for the detail! Some follow ups (if you don't know, that's ok!)..

So in reply, yes we do select early and have a separate elite stream.

At about what age is a boy ID'd as elite? Is there an age beyond which it is too late to go elite?

If a lad is national team level he will normally move to one of those clubs. We also have regular camps at our National Training Centre at Lillishall.

At about what age? Any idea about coach ratios or hours the boys at different ages go?

most professional sports people ( and lets face it at 35+ hours a week its a full time job) don't go into further education, with the notable exception of cricketers, rugby players and rowers.

Really? Are they then seriously limiting career options without a college education? Or they just delay college and go to college abroad perhaps? Interesting..

 

[Flyaway]

The US women perform like winners with smiles and moderate celebration after each routine
The US men act like a winners after every routine wheather its a hit, average or miss

I have noticed this as well. The men behave more like what you'd see at a women's collegiate meet rather than elite. Could that be because more of them competed college gym?

 

[skschlag]

I have noticed this as well. The men behave more like what you'd see at a women's collegiate meet rather than elite. Could that be because more of them competed college gym?

I think they just have fun too Maybe that's the problem lol. Too much fun ??

 

[Sasha]

I have noticed this as well. The men behave more like what you'd see at a women's collegiate meet rather than elite. Could that be because more of them competed college gym?

I'm guessing this strongly contributes. Mens college meets are loud and very 'hoo -yah!' A fun atmosphere, great team spirit and sportsmanship between teams. Heck, even the boys meets here near us often play popular/rock music (sometimes loud, sometimes more in the background), complete with periodic calls for cheering and crowd noise by the announcer over loud speakers... Though there are probably some girls meets like that somewhere, generally a different atmosphere than girls meets where we are.

 

[karenity]

https://t.co/buZIb5iPGn

Interesting article comparing competition in mens vs womens gymnastics.

 

[Faith]

I didn't think we had a definite elite stream for MAG in the uk?

I think the separate "elite track" for girls in the UK has it's drawbacks. Girls get selected and trained young, so the main positive is these kids get the right training at the right clubs from the very beginning, and all our resources are pooled. The big downside is that they are selected by age 7. I believe this means we miss an awful lot of talent- by the time many parents/gymnasts realise they're in a general club, not a hpc club, or they've sat on a wait list for two years, or even realise they want to start gymnastics,it's too late. Take London for example, huge population, use talent pool, lots of relatively wealthy parents, lots of clubs nearby. But they only produce 5 or 6 elite track kids per year compared to other regions who'll put 20 odd on the elite track, as a) there's fewer HPC centres, so ironically more clubs will give elite a shot, and b) they'll give more children a go, as they maybe won't be looking for that "perfect" child, or only picking the absolute best.

MAG, as there are fewer boys, I think is more like the US system where they all compete together along set levels, and no one is sidelined onto a lower track at 7 or 8. So it has the opposite effect of giving more boys a shot at elite. If you think about it this is also why WAG has improved since the 80's- we lost funding, so the centralised system was disbanded and clubs took back control.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Thanks for the detail! Some follow ups (if you don't know, that's ok!)..



At about what age is a boy ID'd as elite? Is there an age beyond which it is too late to go elite?



At about what age? Any idea about coach ratios or hours the boys at different ages go?



Really? Are they then seriously limiting career options without a college education? Or they just delay college and go to college abroad perhaps? Interesting..

So, in reply, and we are pushing my knowledge here so if any other Brits want to chime in feel free.

Our Elite Stream starts at Competing 9 (boys who will be 9 by 31st December) https://www.british-gymnastics.org/news-and-events/national-events/mens
I believe its easier for boys to move into the Elite stream if they are late starters, for girls I know its pretty impossible to "catch up" after 8 or 9. My son says its possible to move in right up to puberty, but then I never pay much attention to what he says ! lol

So the nearest club to us that has boys on the elite path is about an hour away. They have 1 main boys coach ( who they imported from Romania) who has 2 groups, younger group has 6 and the older group (13+) has 5. They train approx 15 hours a week, but do attend regional and national camps in addition.

As far as College, here when I went (25 years ago), 10% of the population went to university. Now its higher, about 35% ( much discussion about the downgrading of degree values here). Having had discussions it seems that our degrees are about the same level as your masters, and our A levels (16-18) are about the same level as your degrees. Lots more do A levels. A degree is not required in many professions, in fact for lots a degree makes you "over qualified".

and what @Faith Said