Parents Missing gymnastics as consequence?

[Alibri]

Last week my daughter got caught copying another student’s answers on a spelling test. The teacher said she suspects it might not be the first time since she looked back and noticed her answers were the same as her neighbor’s answers in her last couple of math and spelling tests. She is a 1st grader on L3 team, and she has never gotten in trouble at school. We make sure she does all of her HW and is ready for all spelling tests, so this baffles us. I am also a teacher myself. It is the first time as parents that we have needed to possibly consider a more serious consequence than a short time-out.

My husband wants to have my daughter miss as a few days of gym as the consequence for the cheating, and his rationale is that she needs to know that school comes first. If she can’t perform at her highest potential level at school, no gym. Of course I agree with most of his rationale as a teacher and mom, but I disagree that this is the best consequence. I don’t think the punishment will connect to the crime in her 7-year-old brain as much as my idea, which is to pull her from her student of the month lunch (her teacher already told her how she was disappointed to find her cheating since she was picked as student of the month, and that cheating isn’t student of the month behavior). I struggle with this consequence too, because part of me thinks it’s too severe.

What do you think about an appropriate consequence for this? Is pulling her from gym for a few days appropriate?

 

[bogwoppit]

Hmm I always said that the punishment should fit the crime. I much prefer your option, because you cannot really be student of the month if you are cheating. It is a clear consequence. I would not pull her from gym as the crime has nothing to do with gym. Coach might be a bit ticked too.

Though, and this is my other thought, did the teacher impose any penalty? Because that alone should be sufficient, well along with the long talk with her parents.

 

[John]

I think bog gave an very answer and it fits the crime.

I'd like to add that school and gym have something in common. You have to work hard to succeed and no matter how much mom and dad want it for their kids it must come from within.

 

[txgymfan]

I agree with you. Missing the student of the month lunch is a better connection. I always think their should be logical consequences. That fits.

 

[acam1103]

I think things like this vary so much by kid and circumstance. I would never think of removing gym as a punishment for my oldest two (9 and 11) unless the "crime" was gym related and upon discussion with coach that was the punishment that fit. But for my 7 year old? Missing gym is literally the only thing he cares about. Maybe taking away his books would be the other which is another unconventional punishment. So yes, for very serious misbehaviors (I would include cheating/lying as serious) I would consider missing a practice or two as a punishment.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Do you really want to teach her that school is more important than gymnastics. She is in 1st Grade, so I am assuming that she is only 6 or 7 years old. Teaching her at this age “school is serious, like a job”, can be counterproductive. At this age you want her to succeed in school because she is loving the joy of learning. Learning should be seen as an adventure, to explore the world of knowledge and find joy in discovering the answers and creating solutions to problems. The longer she can hold onto that pleasure, the greater her success will be in learning throughout her life span.

From what you describe, it sounds like she doesn’t need to cheat, it sounds like she is a good student. So perhaps the cheating is a result of an internal pressure she feels to do well. Perhaps she is afraid that if she doesn’t get a good result you or her teachers or someone will be disappointed in her.

Again the message that school is more important than everything else can send a negative message in this way too. If kids are taught that school is the most important thing in their lives, then a lot of their self worth will become tied up in their results. A good student (like your DD), May feel great pressure to always do well or they are messing up the one thing that really matters in life. A student who struggles at any stage, may feel worthless as they are messing up something that is so important.

JMHO kids need balance. They need to know that school is important, but it is not the only thing that matters. Lots of of other things in life are important too like family, relationships, sports and extra curricular activities. Through gymnastics she is taking care of her body and developing herself both physically and mentally, in ways that she won’t at school. Gymnastics is another place to do well and feel good about herself. If she has the impression that it is important too, then when she is not feeling like everything at school is going as well as she wants it to, she can still feel successful as she is able to succeed in a variety of areas.

 

[duyetanh]

I would see what the teacher did. And take it from there. But i am all about the punishment fitting the crime. Especially at a young age.

 

[rjb123]

I like your consequence much better. I also would have her write a letter of apology to her teacher. You could also tell her that if she does it again, she will receive a greater consequence such as being pulled from gym- that way the consequence is laid out there ahead of time. I might also talk to her and try to find out WHY she was cheating- is she feeling pressure to be "perfect" etc?

 

[Flippin'A]

This is interesting to me. Have you asked your DD why she cheated? A first grader may not even have firm idea of what constitutes cheating and she may have simply not understood that she wasn't allowed to look around and double check her answers. And she certainly wouldn't understand the larger issues that would arise in terms of academic dishonesty. If you're sure she knew what she was doing was wrong, then is there a reason she felt the need to do it? Maybe you thought she was prepared for the test but she got anxious and couldn't remember what she learned? If so it might be better to teach her some calming/meditation techniques to help her focus rather than taking away her physical outlet. Was she led to believe that the child next to her was smarter/better in some way and she wouldn't be able to pass the test without their help? If so then being student of the month might be just the confidence boost she needs to believe in herself and not look for a shortcut.

If she was in middle school I would agree with you, but at such a young age I think it's more important to get to the bottom of why the misbehavior happened rather than just punish and move on. That doesn't mean there can't be a consequence in addition to deter it in the future, but six year olds really aren't malicious, so just punishing probably won't solve the deeper issue.

 

[duyetanh]

This is interesting to me. Have you asked your DD why she cheated? A first grader may not even have firm idea of what constitutes cheating and she may have simply not understood that she wasn't allowed to look around and double check her answers. And she certainly wouldn't understand the larger issues that would arise in terms of academic dishonesty. If you're sure she knew what she was doing was wrong, then is there a reason she felt the need to do it? Maybe you thought she was prepared for the test but she got anxious and couldn't remember what she learned? If so it might be better to teach her some calming/meditation techniques to help her focus rather than taking away her physical outlet. Was she led to believe that the child next to her was smarter/better in some way and she wouldn't be able to pass the test without their help? If so then being student of the month might be just the confidence boost she needs to believe in herself and not look for a shortcut.

If she was in middle school I would agree with you, but at such a young age I think it's more important to get to the bottom of why the misbehavior happened rather than just punish and move on. That doesn't mean there can't be a consequence in addition to deter it in the future, but six year olds really aren't malicious, so just punishing probably won't solve the deeper issue.

All this i agree with with the exception of 6 year olds not being malicious. As a long time primary school teacher, there is a special nastiness with a pack of 6 year old girls....man, they can be vicious. I have even had to have parent conferences on the subject. Ugh.

 

[Flippin'A]

All this i agree with with the exception of 6 year olds not being malicious. As a long time primary school teacher, there is a special nastiness with a pack of 6 year old girls....man, they can be vicious. I have even had to have parent conferences on the subject. Ugh.

Haha. Then I guess I'll just count myself lucky that I haven't seen that side of them yet!

 

[John]

So many good thoughts here. Thus is not my child, this time, but the ideas and thoughts here are all take aways for me.

Aussie Coach great thoughts my 11 year old thinks if school as a job. It makes me sad that 5th grade has become a job! The joy has been removed from the schools.

 

[CLgym]

I haven't read all of the responses here, but I have prohibited my DD from attending a gym practice as a consequence for bad behavior. We went through a period with tantrums and unacceptable behavior after gym practice surrounding homework, cooperation with dinner, bedtime, etc. Finally, I explained to my DD that if she was too tired after practice to behave appropriately and complete her homework, etc. in a timely fashion, then she needed to stay home from practice the next day so she had more time to get her work done and get to bed earlier. (Okay, if I'm being honest, it probably didn't come out quite so calmly... but we all do our best.) DD was really, really unhappy with me at the time, but I believe (hope) it taught her a lesson about my expectations for her behavior after practice. Sounds like I'm in the minority on this one -- but for a kid who cares about nothing but gymnastics, it can be very difficult to come up with meaningful consequences that matter. I just got tired of yelling with no results. As I explained to my DD at the time, it is my job to make sure she is a good person, not a good gymnast. So, yes, she has missed practice as a consequence.

 

[LindyHopper]

Sounds like I'm in the minority on this one

Not really. Your daughter's undesired behavior was directly connected to the consequences. If she couldn't behave after practice, she couldn't go to practice... makes sense. I would agree with it.

OP's daughter's undesired behavior doesn't connect to gym at all, which is why some people are against it. They feel "consequences should fit the 'crime'"

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I didn’t read all the responses. Let the teacher handle the student ( in this case your daughter) where the offense occurred..... school.

Would you take away something she like at school for a gym offense?

I doubt it....

The teacher was keeping you in the loop. To have conversations and dialogue.

It was not an invitation to pile on.

 

[gymdog]

I would be concerned about why a first grader would feel the need to cheat and I think addressing the cause of that would be the most important in making sure it doesn't happen again. I'm not saying there should be no consequences but clearly she was concerned enough about getting the wrong answers or didn't understand enough about the test that she felt the need to copy answers. So among the potential issues here could be an undiagnosed learning or anxiety disorder. Older kids may cheat out of laziness from just having not studied, but in 1st grade this is just an assessment and that doesn't really add up.

 

[duyetanh]

Not really. Your daughter's undesired behavior was directly connected to the consequences. If she couldn't behave after practice, she couldn't go to practice... makes sense. I would agree with it.

OP's daughter's undesired behavior doesn't connect to gym at all, which is why some people are against it. They feel "consequences should fit the 'crime'"

Yes, i was just about to say the same. If you are too fried after gym to do what you need to do and you are a stinker, it is directly related to gym. Mine missed one practice because of this (omg the tears, you would have thought i sent her to jail).....she has never had it happen again. She now self checks herself before the behavior gets out of hand, and all the homework gets done.

 

[Madden3]

I would be concerned about why a first grader would feel the need to cheat and I think addressing the cause of that would be the most important in making sure it doesn't happen again. I'm not saying there should be no consequences but clearly she was concerned enough about getting the wrong answers or didn't understand enough about the test that she felt the need to copy answers. So among the potential issues here could be an undiagnosed learning or anxiety disorder. Older kids may cheat out of laziness from just having not studied, but in 1st grade this is just an assessment and that doesn't really add up.

I agree with this. Punishment in a traditional sense may not even be appropriate. Not because cheating in general is not serious- of course it is. But without understanding why she cheated, punishment will not solve the problem. If the why is not solved, she will most likely do it again and just try harder not to get caught.

As far as taking away gym practice as a punishment- my husband will try to do this sometimes with our boys and this is where I have to overrule him. Because all that does is punish me because I have to be home with a kid who is so upset about missing practice they forget what they did wrong. I think that for poor behavior AT practice, suspensions given by the coach are appropriate. For misbehavior at home, I find another way to discipline.

 

[Alibri]

Thank you all SO much for your feedback, you gave me so much to think about! We ended up deciding to sit down with her and find out why she felt the need to copy. We came to the conclusion from that conversation that we need to focus more on her effort and preparedness and less on high performance on tests and grades. She didn’t actually say we were putting too much pressure on her at school, but we came to our own conclusions on that. We also talked to her about how copying and cheating is wrong, and how it doesn’t give the teacher and us the whole picture on her strengths and struggles.

We decided to have her write a letter to her teacher, and to have her message come 100% from her. We also decided to ask the teacher to send home all of the tests that she suspects my daughter copied answers on. We want her to redo them at home, but not for a new grade. Instead, we want her to express to us the things she felt the need to copy, so we can help. We also want to have her redo them at home after we help her so we can emphasize the fact that she needs to complete tests independently.

We decided she will not miss gym as a consequence this time.

Thank you all! I love this forum!

 

[gymdog]

Thank you all SO much for your feedback, you gave me so much to think about! We ended up deciding to sit down with her and find out why she felt the need to copy. We came to the conclusion from that conversation that we need to focus more on her effort and preparedness and less on high performance on tests and grades. She didn’t actually say we were putting too much pressure on her at school, but we came to our own conclusions on that. We also talked to her about how copying and cheating is wrong, and how it doesn’t give the teacher and us the whole picture on her strengths and struggles.

We decided to have her write a letter to her teacher, and to have her message come 100% from her. We also decided to ask the teacher to send home all of the tests that she suspects my daughter copied answers on. We want her to redo them at home, but not for a new grade. Instead, we want her to express to us the things she felt the need to copy, so we can help. We also want to have her redo them at home after we help her so we can emphasize the fact that she needs to complete tests independently.

We decided she will not miss gym as a consequence this time.

Thank you all! I love this forum!

I'm glad you came to this conclusion. However, I would further recommend that you find out how the spelling tests are given and try that exercise at home with her one on one and see how she does, including how much time they have for each answer. Even if she is on target with grade level it could be something about the testing style that she is struggling with. Kids in this age range typically attempt to copy peers when they are confused. It may be that the typical auditory style of the test is an issue and she is a visual learner. If she struggles with that then try showing her the test with pictures of the words and see if she knows the information that way.