Parents More Gym Drama :(

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LMV

Proud Parent
I really am not cut out to be a gym mom so I’m nominating my beloved husband for gym dad. Perhaps he will be more suited for his role. I’m only kind of kidding. In all seriousness, I’m going back to work full time in January and he is going to work from home and enjoy being the “quantity AND quality time dadâ€￾ as he says. Did I mention that I love him dearly?

We’re facing a lot of pressure to move our daughter to L9 and I think we’re basically at a point where we either let her compete L9 in January or we make a gym switch. We don’t have a lot of gym options. There is really only one other possible option and it is a non-option because:
-She trained there before she lived with us and they have a “no return policyâ€￾.
-I don’t condone yelling at children in general but I’m certainly not paying someone to yell at my daughter.
-Considering that their original plan for her was to have her competing L10 this year I suspect it would be more likely for them to try to score her out of L9 and push on to L10 than allow her to enjoy a low key L8 season.

So, we really seem to be at a point where we either let her do L9 or we pull her out of the sport entirely. My nagging voice inside suggests that the latter is what we should do but she really loves this and would be very upset if we took it away. It’s probably especially cruel to do now when I’m planning to return to work full time and she is going to need to adapt to that. Ironically that was yet another of my valid arguments to the HC why we should not move her up to L9 right now. He suggested in turn that while we had made it quite clear that she would never be as high a priority as our other children perhaps I should try to at least make her more of a priority than my career. I took a deep breath and very calmly [and probably also very coldly] stated that neither were true and suggested perhaps we should discuss things more later when he had some time to think about why that might have been an inappropriate comment.

I think he thinks he’s being her advocate. I can even believe that he is really trying. However, the comment really bothers me. In some ways I really need to go back to work because I’m a physician and extended off periods make it hard to keep up with the field and standard of care. I initially took time off when our oldest daughter was a victim of violence and had a lot of medical complications as a result of her injuries. She recovered and even started to thrive, I got pregnant with our youngest, and then our foster daughter came into our lives. I have no regrets about the time [a little over two years since I last worked full time] I took for any of the three of them and really believe it was where I needed to be at the time. I also maintained some connection via CME and some part time work but at this point I really need to go back to work full time. My husband and I have been working on a transition to allow me to do so for the past year [roughly since the birth of our youngest, she just turned one earlier this month and we kind of wanted me to be home with her the first year] and this is something that we have considered carefully and tried to consider the needs of all three of our youngest in our plans and decisions. I do not feel that we considered our foster daughter’s needs with any lower priority than those of her sisters. We tried to make the choices that were right for all of our children and our family and we will always do that. In actuality we probably did look at our foster daughter’s needs a little more closely because in some sense they may be more critical. I do think that adapting to having my husband being more of the primary caregiver may be a bit challenging for but I don‘t think it will be impossible or overall detrimental for her. If we felt that then I would delay my return to full time work. My MIL feels that perhaps it is almost as important that I give her the chance to bond more securely with her dad now as that I do this from a career standpoint. She may be right. She certainly raised a wonderful son.

Perhaps we are more sensitive to the comment because she is our foster child. I also think her coach is pushing this for that reason as well. Her coach has asked us several times if we would do things differently if this was our oldest daughter in this situation. He doesn’t seem to get that yes we would [because our oldest daughter is older but also a different child with her own challenges, strengths, personality, and dreams] but that in no way indicates we are playing favorites with our children. Technically our foster daughter is the newest member of the family and in some ways we do not know her as well as our other children. Yet, in our hearts she is our daughter, different than her sisters and brother [as they are different than her and each other as they are all unique] but no less loved or cherished. We would love to have adopted her yesterday but the legal issues are more complex than that. We have real reservations with her spending a lot of time with an adult who believes that she is less loved than her siblings. That seems anything but conducive to helping her final transition into the family.

As I type all of this and think about it I’m starting to realize that unless he can get to a point where he at least believes and trusts that we love her and are trying to make decisions with her best interests at heart we just really can’t do this. I want to think that giving him some time to decompress and reflect may help but if it doesn’t I’m starting to realize we have to walk away and I’m questioning if we can really do that to her. The whole situation just really stinks. Ugh!
 
I'd have a really hard time with a coach telling me I loved my child less because I was going back to work or not wanting her to compete Level 9. You pay them to coach, not tell you how to run your life.

I briefly remember your posts from before and wanting to not stress her out. Are you worried Level 9 will be much more stressful than Level 8? Maybe it won't be. Not every child is stressed out by competition. Some kids absolutely love it and thrive. If she has her skills comfortably and SHE feels okay with it then maybe it's not a bad idea.

Seems you are in a tough situation. I hope someone has better advice than me.

Ultimately you pay for gym and if you really don't want her to do Level 9 then refuse to let her compete.

In my state Level 8 is actually a tougher level than level 9. I don't mean skillwise obviously, just results wise. Making regionals for Level 8 is really, really hard, especially in the younger age groups. Last year a 37AA didn't make it for one of the girls at DD's gym. She scored a 9.675 on beam and didn't even place. Level 9 has fewer competitors and all you need to get to regionals is a 34 AA. I've seen quite a few girls from some of the gyms starting the season out as Level 8's and switching to Level 9 after a few meets. Just something to think about.
 
Thanks for your thoughts NGL!

She has only done one L8 meet actually.
We're told she has enough skills to compete L9 but I'm kind of clueless. I do know that what she is training on bars is quite a bit above what she is allowed to compete in L8 and that seems to be the HC's main motivation to get her out of L8 so she show off her awesome bars. She does also seem to have a lot of C acro beam skills that she either can't use in L8 or takes a deduction for. She competed BHS-BHS-BT as her series in her first meet and just took the deduction. Her coach thinks the fact that she was willing to do that and sacrifice beam medals to do it means we're really holding her back.

I actually get the sense that she's ok with doing L8 as long as she can keep uptraining bars. She trains bars and vault with the L9/L10 girls and works with the L8s on floor and beam.

Perhaps irrelevant [and really not something we even realized until after we had already decided we'd rather she not move up] we have a family conflict with L9 state meet weekend so if she moves up to L9 she will not compete at states [and thus I presume be ineligible for anything beyond that]. I'm sure as far as her coach is concerned this is another example of why we're horrible.
 
LMV,

Please dont take this the wrong way but I am going to represent a different viewpoint. I wonder how much resentment DD will feel if you pull her out? You admit she loves the sport and acknowledge just how much she has put ito it. Is it fair for YOU to decide to pull her? From the outside, it does look a bit like you are making decisions based on how convenient they are for you.

Let me be clear, I know (from what you have posted) that DD has had a rough time AND you love her and want the best.

I hope you are able to come to some resolution. DD sounds talented and I guess it comes down to trust. You pay her coaches to coach and they are.. If you think you can coach better then it would appear there is a lack of trust.
 
I would be furious with someone who worked with any of my children saying I shouldn't return to my career because it shows that I don't take as much interest in 1 child as the rest. That is unacceptable, insulting and rude.

Obviously, your dd is quite talented and driven. She's also very young for the levels he wants to move her to. I know you are worried about past abuse and medical issues with her and are taking it slow and easy. I think this HC sees dd as his next little star. Do L9 this year and then push her to L10 the year after. Thing is she might not be ready and it sounds like there are still many issues regarding bonding with the family, legal issues regarding her adoption etc.

NGL is correct that she would need a 34AA at L9 state(if she went) to go to regionals. The thing since most L9s can make the 34AA score, the real competition is at the regional meet. Your dd would be in one of the tough younger age groups where she would probably need a low 37 AA to move to Easterns/Westerns.

Since you are paying him to coach, then if you don't feel moving to L9 is in her best interest this year, then tell him she will continue doing L8, practicing some with the L9/10s and you'll all look at things again after the season. Maybe by then some of the uncertainty regarding the adoption will be resolved and you'll have more time to sit back and see how she's done with a season of competitive gymnastics, school and a new family.

If he questions your parenting again, I would get my dd and walk out---and never look back. She is far too important to be used by someone to further his own career.
 
What a terrible thing for that coach to say. No wonder you are upset. I hope you manage to sort things out. I think you need to settle on one level or another for this season and have done with it. Is it possible to have a meeting with you, your husband, the coach and another coach or owner. Just to make a calmer more even discussion. Lay out why you wanted level 8, acknowledge her higher skills and put in that if she did level 9 there would be no state meet. Say next season could be a 9/10 season if she was settled enough and happy enough. You need to obviously discuss his comment and hopefully get an apology.

Sending you lots of hugs and best wishes for you and your family. I know you have agonised throughout to do the best for your dd's emotional wellbeing.
 
LMV;14426} I actually get the sense that she's ok with doing L8 as long as she can keep uptraining bars. She trains bars and vault with the L9/L10 girls and works with the L8s on floor and beam. Perhaps irrelevant [and really not something we even realized until after we had already decided we'd rather she not move up said:
we have a family conflict with L9 state meet weekend so if she moves up to L9 she will not compete at states [and thus I presume be ineligible for anything beyond that]. I'm sure as far as her coach is concerned this is another example of why we're horrible.

Does your DD have enough skill then to compete 9 successfully? Are the coaches looking for her best interest, really? Putting aside the negativity between you and her coach, does DD want to do nine? The latter should be your guidance. I know we as parents have to make decisions based on what's best for all, but pinpointing the factor that your DD is talented and she is in a high level, shouldn't she have a say in what she competes?
I have to agree with Marianlv and say that from the outside it does seem like your decisions are made from your convenience point. Could there be a possibility that the coach, although down right WRONG to tell you how to parent your own child, has caught some type of vibe. Sometimes what is missing in a relationship is mere communication, honest communication. Perhaps the coach is going on hearsay and not reality. Talk to him.
Who cares if she misses State, etc? Will it ruin her if she competes in a few level 9 meets and no state? Can't she repeat 9 again next year and at least gain experience. Doing what is right for all involved is such a heavy burden for just one person to do. Consult all involved, even her siblings but especially DD.

BTW going back to work IMHO sends a very positive view point to all daughters. In today's society, women need to empower the young to believe that they can do for themselves. Your DD will appreciate your efforts for the family. A physician is a very respectable and very difficult profession. My hats off to you. You must be highly intelligent and truly know what you have to do. You have life experiences on your side!

Best of luck to you. Have a joyous holiday with your family! Please let us know what you decide. :):):)
 
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Well I don't agree with how this coach is handling things at all. And I can see how you would be upset. I don't think however I would pull out from gymnastics either. Your DD obviously loves doing this and is good at it. Putting aside the foolish coach who needs to learn some PR skills, is the program offered good? Do you feel they evaluate the gymnasts appropriately? Or do they push the gymnasts before they are ready? If you trust their ability to evaluate the gymnasts then I would trust that and feel maybe she is ready for L9. Have you discussed the moving up with your DD? Is she afraid or doesn't feel ready for L9? Does she have L9 skills? I guess I'm not seeing the oposition to the move if she has the skills to move? Is the coach also the owner? If not then You should have a talk with the owner and voice all of your concerns.

If you no longer trust the coach and don't like the way they do things anymore then it is time to seek out a new program. but I don't think I would pull her unless finances are an issue.

You could go and to a "tryout evaluation" at some of the other gyms stating she is a L8 but her old gym was thinking of moving her to L9. Let them evaluate her, you evaluate them and their program and see if they agree with you or the gym. Where would they want to place her?

Its a hard decision here but I think your DD should be part of it too.
 
Well I don't agree with how this coach is handling things at all. And I can see how you would be upset. I don't think however I would pull out from gymnastics either. Your DD obviously loves doing this and is good at it. Putting aside the foolish coach who needs to learn some PR skills, is the program offered good? Do you feel they evaluate the gymnasts appropriately? Or do they push the gymnasts before they are ready? If you trust their ability to evaluate the gymnasts then I would trust that and feel maybe she is ready for L9. Have you discussed the moving up with your DD? Is she afraid or doesn't feel ready for L9? Does she have L9 skills? I guess I'm not seeing the oposition to the move if she has the skills to move? Is the coach also the owner? If not then You should have a talk with the owner and voice all of your concerns.

If you no longer trust the coach and don't like the way they do things anymore then it is time to seek out a new program. but I don't think I would pull her unless finances are an issue.

You could go and to a "tryout evaluation" at some of the other gyms stating she is a L8 but her old gym was thinking of moving her to L9. Let them evaluate her, you evaluate them and their program and see if they agree with you or the gym. Where would they want to place her?

Its a hard decision here but I think your DD should be part of it too.

This is exactly what I was trying to emphasize. Thank you Cher062!
 
Maria,
To respond to some of your points:
Please dont take this the wrong way but I am going to represent a different viewpoint. I wonder how much resentment DD will feel if you pull her out? You admit she loves the sport and acknowledge just how much she has put ito it. Is it fair for YOU to decide to pull her? From the outside, it does look a bit like you are making decisions based on how convenient they are for you.
We really don’t want to pull her out of gymnastics altogether and are hoping we can find some alternative solution. [The compete L9 or don’t compete was certainly not something we came up with.] However, in the grand scheme of life it is most important to us that she be healthy and secure than she be a gymnast. If both are possible great but if not we aren’t comfortable sacrificing her health for gymnastics. As far as convenience, the convenient thing would have been to never allow her to return to gymnastics. We didn’t do that because she seemed to really want to do gymnastics so we figured out how to make it work. Aside from the state meet conflict, L9 is no more or less convenient for us than L8. She will not be increasing her hours to the standard L9 schedule no matter what. That has nothing to do with our convenience but does have to do with her pediatrician and nephrologist’s recommendations.
I hope you are able to come to some resolution. DD sounds talented and I guess it comes down to trust. You pay her coaches to coach and they are.. If you think you can coach better then it would appear there is a lack of trust.
I’m not sure where you got the impression that I feel we can coach better. We are coming at this from a parent standpoint. As parents we have concerns with her moving up to L9 mid season.

GymLawMom,
Family bonding it is a slow process. In January we will have known her for a year. She finally came home from the hospital to our home in the beginning of February and in many ways she has come so far but she also still has so far to go.

GymNut,
Our plan has always been for her to do a full year of L8 [originally we wanted that full year to start in Fall 2011 not Fall 2010 but her coach felt she was getting her skills back too quickly for that plan]. We thought a final decision about what she would compete had been made in September. The idea to move her to L9 came up after she competed a single L8 meet and we told him then we didn’t want her to do that. He then went ahead and entered her as a L9 for their January meet that was the preface for our final conversation. So we’re kind of stuck we either let her do L9 or she doesn’t compete.

Cher & LilGymmie,
-As far as our daughter she has been involved in this decision and she is fine with competing L8. She would be fine with competing L9 too probably but as long as she can continue to work on bars uptraining she is fine with competing L8. She just turned 11 so I think she is old enough to have input and we did discuss this with her. Perhaps that wasn’t clear from my post.
-This is not a situation where we are deciding that she’s done because her coach is being unreasonable. This is a situation where we are basically in a situation where we either let her do L9 or leave her current gym. Our hope is that her coach backed himself out on a limb a bit more than he really intended and perhaps if we allow him to come back and save face perhaps he will. If he doesn’t then I guess we’re without options because we really don’t have another gym option. We completely don’t want it to go this way but sometimes things are beyond our control and we just have to do the best we can. If this is how it ends up we will be very sorry and completely acknowledge that this isn’t fair to her and we’ll be looking for other opportunities for her but I’m not really sure what we can do beyond that.
-As far as gym philosophy, I would have said that they weren’t in a race through the levels mindset. If we let her move to L9 she would be the youngest on her team by at least 3 years. They also do not train elite but do seem to get their L10s to nationals and even send a few girls into the NCAA ranks with E skills so obviously they are doing something right. We aren’t critiquing their methods over all we are just suggesting that scoring out of L8 is not the way to go for our daughter.
-As far as communicating with her coach, we’ve certainly tried. We initially sat down with the HC before we ever told her that going back was a possibility. We stressed that her health was going to be our first priority and that we would have to go slow and honestly we might just find that she couldn’t ever get back to the point where she had been. He worked with her individually to get her back to a point where she was ready to rejoin a L7/L8 training group. We appreciated the time he took with her then and told him that. We had extensive conversations about what she would compete [and had agreed on a year of L8 in September before he came up with a new plan after her first L8 meet in November] and the reality that neither our pediatrician or the nephrologist were comfortable with her increasing her hours in the gym more. He seemed to accept that but perhaps seemed was the operative word.
-Our main concerns stem from the reality that she was horribly abused physically and emotionally by her biological parents. She is so much better but she has emotional scars and physical concerns that still exist. Initially we were also a little wary because gymnastics had been pretty unhealthy for her in the past but as she got better it also was quite clear that it was important to her too and that somehow independent of the adults around her she had found something in it that was hers. That is why we have tried to so hard to let her have it and have it be healthy.
 
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LMV, you and your dh have done something most of society would never think of. You have taken in a child who comes from a severly abusive background and welcomed her into your family as your daughter. Having worked in the juvenile court system, I've seen and heard stories of what these poor children go through before we can ever permanently remove them from the home. She also came to you with medical problems that obviously have not completely resolved. To those who felt you were keeping her at L8 or going back to work or whatever for YOUR convienience, they need to look again. You are the ones that take her to doctors appoiintments, ? counseling(most kids from these situations need it), check her homework, work with the school, go to court trying to get parental rights terminated and support her in gymnastics PLUS care for and give attention to 3 other children. Very few of us could or would do that for a child we didn't know until Feb. 2010.

Just having a safe home for a child like this is such a plus, but one that is willing to adopt her is not heard of often especially with children that are "older"(basically over 1 yo). Your dd's needs come 1st and foremost. I'm sure you know that just because she did well at a gym meet does not mean she's past all the prior abuse. It would be great if she could continue in gym as the plan was in Sept. Not sure where this coach thought he could just change everything on his own without letting you know and when he did was just plain nasty to you.

As another poster suggested, you could try a meeting with the owner, coach and you and dh. I know you made them totally aware of dd's past and her current emotional/medical problems, but they may just see a really good gymnast and "forgot" all that was discussed.

You brought home a broken little bird in Feb. and its going to take a long time before she's completely ready to fly on her own again.

I hope your new family has a blessed holiday season.
 
LMV,

I would be furious at the coach, too, for insinuating what he did. I know your heart is in the right place with your daughter and hope that the coaches come to this realization, too. Your daughter has been through a lot and adding extra stress to that isn't necessary. A child's emotional well being is much more important than any sport. I think that level 8 sounds like a good plan for this year. Sending hugs and good luck. And wishing you guys a happy holiday and a really happy new year.

And I have to say, even though one couldn't possibly know the background story for LMV and her daughter just from this thread, after reading her post you would figure there must be more. A little reading of her previous posts would have probably been wise before posting to such an obviously emotionally sensitive thread. I think reading those would show how much they love their daughter, how much their daughter has been through AND that she is very young and has plenty of time. This adds in much more into the mix than just letting a kid compete at the next level or not. It also would have been clear that this decision wasn't made hastily or for their convenience, either.
 
LMV... I remember your story as well. You have opened your heart and home to a girl who desperately needed both. You have encouraged her BACK to gymnastics and she has flourished under your care. How DARE a coach suggest that you don't care for her as much as your other children. I am surprised you didn't just slap him across the face and storm out. I know, I know... your cooler head prevailed... but I'm sure you WANTED to smack him. Unfortunately there are jerks in every sport, occupation, school, wherever you go.

You and your DD will do fine. You are a great parent, and your common sense and love for her will dictate your next step. I trust you and definitely want to hear what comes to pass with this situation.
 
My gut feeling is that you need to push this coach further out on the limb. Tell him point blank that if he will not back down and allow you to do what is best for your dd that he will not have to worry about L9 or any other level because you will not put your dd into a situation which may hurt her in any way, shape or form.
I think his statements to you are awful. He is trying to undermine and manipulate you into what he wants. He's not thinking about your dd's health or well being. He is being a jerk.
I know that you do not want to take dd out of gymnastics, so you need to stand up to this coach and put him in his place - which is a gym coach - not her parent, or your family therapist, or anything else. Yes, we all need to listen to the coaches, but they need to listen to the parents as well. Especially in this unique situation.

Oh, and it is not hard to have dd dropped down to L8 for the meet he registered her for as L9. It is a phone call at most. If he says otherwise he is a liar.

I'd like to smack this coach for you, I really would.

Best of luck and a Merry Christmas.
 
I just want to reach through the screen and give you and the whole family a BIG }}hug{{. I think that you are wonderful parents to all of your children and I wish more parents were as concerned as you about their children's health and well being. I hope that you can find a perfect solution to the situation and wish you all the best.

gymjoy is right - having your dd dropped back to compete L8 for the next meet takes no more hassle than a phone call or email on the part of the HC. It doesn't have to come down to L9 or nothing, hopefully a sit down with the coach AND owner will be all it takes for everyone to be on the same page. They just need to realize that this has been a LOT of change for your dd in less than a year - no need to pressure her or rush her. She needs time for all the aspects of her life to piece together and Maybe the coach just needs to be reminded of that. I'm hoping that he either isn't aware of her full story OR has forgotten (seeing a very talented gymnast ONLY - one he would like to push to greatness). I would let him know that while you appreciate his faith in your dds talent (you do also) that she is very young and been through much already. Give her some time - no need to rush her and put more pressure on her. Let her re-discover her love of this sport and she'll be a much better athlete (and all around person) for it.
 
Just out of curiousty, why do you feel Level 9 would be more stressful than Level 8 for her? Is it just because the skills are more difficult? Does she not have all the skills easily and consistently for level 9 and would have them all very consistently for Level 8? Did she just do astounding at her Level 8 meet? I can understand why it would be stressful for her to do Level 9 if some skills were questionable. Maybe she is just rock solid with her 9 skills and the coach really feels there wouldn't be any added stress. Are there other Level 8's? Just wondering if there were other advantages to doing Level 9 like teammates for her to compete with.

If she can't do Level 9 state why would he even want her to do Level 9? And I'm guessing that your previous engagement can't be changed.
 
LMV I am so impressed with your parenting. You have a lot on your plate and yet you still stop to examine each decision. What the coach said to you is bs, and insulting. You are making wonderful choices for a child who needs someone to be her advocate.

I am honored to know you even virtually, and I think you are making some wise choices. Telling the coach that things need to slow down, for your dd's health and welfare is a very wise choice. More than that your going back to work is a great choice for your whole family right now.

Sending you the very best of the seasons greetings this first Christmas together. You are the very essence of the season. Thanks for being all that your dd needs.
 
With all insults, idiocy and bullying aside, what business is it of the coach to question your priority in parenting and your work? It's not like you're blatantly mistreating your child. Add to that, what was he doing by signing you up for a different level after you telling him no. He is just totally out of line. IMO, he is in no way looking out for the interest of your family.
 
LMV one other thought, you said you brought her to this gym because your sister attended and the coaching was solid. Has this changed? I hope it was a momentary lapse.
 
LMV, I think you and your dh are amazing! I so admire what you are doing for this girl, and I'm sure you love her and value her as much as any child in your family. My suggestion would be to ask her what she would like to do. See if she feels the same as you (this may have been covered already), or if she really wants to move up see if you all can work it out. Either way, I hope she has a very productive season, and does great (unless she's going against my dd, haha!!) But seriously, I hope it all works out, and I think you are awesome.
 

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