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The emphasis of gymnastics in Australia is different. The standards expected at the lower levels are much much higher. Not only must the Australian girls do harder skills at lower levels but the deductions are the same as the elite gymnasts. However, that doesn't make our system better. The USA are much better at developing elite gymnasts and keeping kids in the sport.

You go to many gyms in Australia and you will notice one thing missing. Teenagers. Very few gyms have a level 7-10 program at all. Those that do rarely have a big one. In Australia the kids are expected to do the harder skills at the lower levels and do longer hours at lower levels. So that means they are older at lower levels. Which means far less ever get to the higher levels.

In Australia the average age of a level 4 gymnast is 10 years old. And it is very rare to have one younger than age 8. In the USA there are lots that are just 6 and 7, this is almost never seen here.

The average level 6 is about 12 or 13. The average level 8 is about 15. In the USA the kids are a fraction of their age. Because they are not burned out too early. They are not training 6 hours a week and competing constantly in level 1. They arent doing 12 hours a week by level 3 and 18 hours by level 4 like many of our girls are.
 
The emphasis of gymnastics in Australia is different. The standards expected at the lower levels are much much higher. Not only must the Australian girls do harder skills at lower levels but the deductions are the same as the elite gymnasts. However, that doesn't make our system better. The USA are much better at developing elite gymnasts and keeping kids in the sport.

You go to many gyms in Australia and you will notice one thing missing. Teenagers. Very few gyms have a level 7-10 program at all. Those that do rarely have a big one. In Australia the kids are expected to do the harder skills at the lower levels and do longer hours at lower levels. So that means they are older at lower levels. Which means far less ever get to the higher levels.

In Australia the average age of a level 4 gymnast is 10 years old. And it is very rare to have one younger than age 8. In the USA there are lots that are just 6 and 7, this is almost never seen here.

The average level 6 is about 12 or 13. The average level 8 is about 15. In the USA the kids are a fraction of their age. Because they are not burned out too early. They are not training 6 hours a week and competing constantly in level 1. They arent doing 12 hours a week by level 3 and 18 hours by level 4 like many of our girls are.



In our gym (Which is in Aus) we have only 3 teenagers. But we aren't a very competetive club. We have ALOT ot level 1's and 2's amd we have a fair few level 4's but there is only 1 level 8 (me :( ) and 2 level 6/7's.
The level 4's are mostly in grades 3-6.
 
Beth competed level 7 last year and her age bracket at most meets had the highest scores (11 yr olds). They typically tried to break up the levels so each had a similar amount of girls, but that didn't always work--one meet we were at there were FIVE girls in the youngest age and 20 in another age range--that was ridiculous. (the youngest was 8-10--they could have done 8-11 and evened it out more)
 
[B said:
USA the kids are a fraction of their age. Because they are not burned out too early. They are not training 6 hours a week and competing constantly in level 1. They arent doing 12 hours a week by level 3 and 18 hours by level 4 like many of our girls are[/b].

I think I have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

I think the USA kids have just as many hours as any other country's program and work just as hard on a program. I don't really see as any program as easier or harder than any other program out there (with maybe the exceptoin of countries like China - but that is another whole topic). I think eveyone has a different program where there are some elements that are harder and some that are easier. I know my DDs Team program focuses a lot on form and conditioning and endurance.

I don't know about other gyms in the USA but at my daughters gym L 1 does 8 hours a week, L2 does 10 hours a week and L3 does 12 hours a week

L 4 - 6 do 15 - 20 hours a week and can do an additional 4 - 5 hours on Sat if they want (which most do).

The optional levels (L 7 - L10)do 24 hours a week and are allowed come in on the days they aren't scheduled if they want to (they all are there usually). Usually the optional girls are in the gym on average 24- 30 hours a week.

They do even more hours once school is out and we are on summer break. DD will be at the gym M - F from 8:00 am - 3:00pm. The team girls also have the opportunity of an optional day of training on Saturday (they can be there up to 5 hours).

And every girl has to show their report cards from school and must have an average of a "B" (80%) or can be put on probation or suspended from the team (I've seen a few gymnasts boys and girls whom this has happened to). Most of the girls and boys on the team have straight "A's" and high honors.
 
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Cher, in Australia/New Zealand we do not have nearly the numbers nor depth (in higher levels) of gymnasts that countries such as the US have. We are constantly looking for reasons as to why this has happened and how to strengthen our program. Thats what has drawn myself (and probably Aussie Coach) to this thread - should we have our gymnasts competing in age divisions and being rewarded more? It can sometimes be dispiriting for a 9yr old to see a 15yr old beat her in vault because she has the height and weight advantage. Are we possibly making it too difficult for our DDs to enjoy the sport? My DD has a start value of 16.4 on floor and yet she competes against girls who have a start value of anything from 15.8 to 16.6. At a NZ comp there is usually 3 AA medals and team medals for first three teams, certificates for top 3 on each apparatus. Many go home with nothing.

As per hours, these vary widely from gym to gym in most countries. I know of gyms that train level 4s for 24+ hours. I am yet to meet a coach who wants to see a school report though! School is sometimes seen as an intrusion - most would rather their gymnasts didn't do cross country (too much risk of a twisted ankle) - and do they have to go to school camp??! I think a discussion on hours is not really relevant - the intensity of the expectations on some of our 'rising stars' can result in a very high attrition rate. The problem is probably more that we only have one competitive gym stream - so maybe a 10yr old is thinking she wants to continue with gym but not the hours she currently does - what are her options? She can go do cartwheels in a recreational program.

Ideally, I would like to see a competitive levels program run parallel to our current one which can 'catch' some of our gymnasts and encourage them to stay in the sport and still increase their skills so that they may be able to 'come back' onto an elite track later. Then maybe we could encourage enough gymnasts (in NZ) to stay in the sport and then have age brackets in our competitions and more rewards for doing well.
 
Yes, sportspice, it seems that is another big difference between Aussie/NZ and USA gymnastics. In Australia a coach or gym would never ever ask to see a childs reports card. Grades would never have any affect on their placement on the team. This woul;d be seen as major discrimination.

Whats more, Austrralian coaches don't care how kids do at school. Thats the last thing on their minds. This sounds negative but we dont see it as a negative thing. Some kids are gifted at school and will do well no matter how much or how little time they get for homework and studies. While other skids just arent as able and even with all day to work they still would struggle to get good grades. In the gym kids are not judged by their intelectual capacity. Team gymnastics is not something reserved for the gifted and the academically inclined. many of our kids hate school and struggle a lot there. But they have somewhere like the gym that they can come for a chance to do well and succeed. they need this even more than the kids doing well at school.
 
Our coaches place an emphasis on doing well at school. If the child starts failing a class, they're supposedly off team (I've never seen this happen, but I've also never heard of a gymnast on team failing a class!). They also allow the girls to go in the office and do homework during practice, if they have a lot--no questions asked. The coaches would rather the girls took 30-60 min. out of practice to do it than either skip practice entirely or do poorly in class. I love that attitude!
 
Our coaches place an emphasis on doing well at school. If the child starts failing a class, they're supposedly off team (I've never seen this happen, but I've also never heard of a gymnast on team failing a class!). They also allow the girls to go in the office and do homework during practice, if they have a lot--no questions asked. The coaches would rather the girls took 30-60 min. out of practice to do it than either skip practice entirely or do poorly in class. I love that attitude!

I agree. I have seen 2 gymnasts who were failing that had to leave the team in the 14+ years my kids have been with the gym. Most afterschool activities with competitive teams in my area require School report card.

For the summer my DD's practices are in the morning until just after lunch. She asked if she could do Karate with her friend for the summer. We made it very clear that she could but when the fall comes around if the schedules don't gel then gymnastics is first. Well even her Karate wants the report cards and they are just rec classes. Poor grades (below a C or 70%)and suspended.

It's all part of a way of thinking that you need to focus on what is really important before you do the "fun" stuff. That philosophy of excellance needs to be in all areas of life not just one sport or activity.

It also shows a desire on the part of the child to really want to do the sport to maintain that excelance in all aspects of their lives not just one focus. They will do what ever they have to (even if it means breaking their brains to get that "C" and at least pass the classes) to do gymnastics. Having a desire for excellance in all aspects of life is just a way of life for our gymnasts.

You had mentioned earllier that the Aussies had trouble keeping the older girls interested. Maybe this is part of what keeps our girls and boys wanting to stay at older ages.
 
Aussie, I think I agree with that idea. I believe it's the parents responsibility to make sure their child is doing well in school before they can do extra activities. I can't imagine how it would be for a coach to have to worry about each and every child on their team and their grades.

Maybe if the parent approached the coach and explained their child wasn't doing well and wanted the coach to step in for a plan of action, but not on their own.

What would happen if a parent had their child in some sort of resource because they just didn't do well in school? I think it would just add more pressure to gymnastics if school was involved.

I honestly don't see a child with terrible grades having parents who would shell out the money for competitive gymnastics. But then again I am in my own bubble..lol

Yes, sportspice, it seems that is another big difference between Aussie/NZ and USA gymnastics. In Australia a coach or gym would never ever ask to see a childs reports card. Grades would never have any affect on their placement on the team. This woul;d be seen as major discrimination.

Whats more, Austrralian coaches don't care how kids do at school. Thats the last thing on their minds. This sounds negative but we dont see it as a negative thing. Some kids are gifted at school and will do well no matter how much or how little time they get for homework and studies. While other skids just arent as able and even with all day to work they still would struggle to get good grades. In the gym kids are not judged by their intelectual capacity. Team gymnastics is not something reserved for the gifted and the academically inclined. many of our kids hate school and struggle a lot there. But they have somewhere like the gym that they can come for a chance to do well and succeed. they need this even more than the kids doing well at school.
 
My DD was level 7 last year. It kinda change in that level. Seemed like the younger kids, Jr. A were the toughest group who got better scores but medals were tougher to come by, then my kids group Jr. B, and then the older level 7's seemed to medal with lower scores. Before optional, the older girls in the perspective levels 4 and 5 seemed to do the best. Don't know what to expect for level 8.
 
I tend to agree with mbphoto about the optionals. I think you see the highest scores in L7 and L8 amoung the youngest age groups is because these groups have all the little superstars in them. If they weren't really good then they would still be compulsories. Its probably still true at 9 and 10 to a lesser extent, but all the girls who make it to this level are good. Some better than others, but any gymnast who has lasted to this level has got both dedication and abililty so the age thing is not as apparent any more.
 

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