I'd love to hear any stories that you have about a bottom of the pack gymnast moving to a more serious gym that provides better training. There is no disputing that the coaches at the other gym have more experience and prepare the girls better for the meets. That said, it would be considerably more effort for me to get my DD (age 8) to this better gym. She is going into her second season as a level 3. My initial thought was why bother with the longer commute/more hours/late nights/more money if she's not one of the more talented. Now I'm thinking that the lack of good coaching is hurting her more than some of the kids who are more naturally talented at gymnastics. I would love to hear stories of bottom of the pack gymnasts moving to get better training and where it took them. Did they burn out in an environment where everyone was much better than they are (presumably b/c they'd had better training from the start)? Did they quickly progress? I am not hoping to make her into a superstar or anything like that -I just want to give her the tools to be as successful as possible and I don't feel that she's getting that at the moment.
Parents move a bottom of the pack gymnast to "better" gym?
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So, to be perfectly blunt there are a few reasons to be a bottom of the pack.
1. lack of or bad coaching
2. difficulty understanding what is required to improve
3. not being "team material", just not having the drive necessary to put the donkeywork
4. no gymnastics ability.
I have seen good gymnast fight through bad coaching, and effectively coach themselves up to at least (your) level 4. Your level 4 is what we consider our advance rec.
It may be your daughter fall into any of the above categories, but only point 1 or 2 will drastically improve with a gym move, however good coaching will give some improvement to any of the above. More than the gym success I would look at the environment and ethos and see if she will be happy there. Do they have an xcel team she could try to see if that fits her personality better. JO is not the be all and end all.
She is 8. not super old or super young, you need to be where she will be happy.
Oh and I would ask, strike that demand, for my money back for the crappy leo !
1. lack of or bad coaching
2. difficulty understanding what is required to improve
3. not being "team material", just not having the drive necessary to put the donkeywork
4. no gymnastics ability.
I have seen good gymnast fight through bad coaching, and effectively coach themselves up to at least (your) level 4. Your level 4 is what we consider our advance rec.
It may be your daughter fall into any of the above categories, but only point 1 or 2 will drastically improve with a gym move, however good coaching will give some improvement to any of the above. More than the gym success I would look at the environment and ethos and see if she will be happy there. Do they have an xcel team she could try to see if that fits her personality better. JO is not the be all and end all.
She is 8. not super old or super young, you need to be where she will be happy.
Oh and I would ask, strike that demand, for my money back for the crappy leo !
In short, I have seen both - I have seen girls make great strides and go from mid/low pack to podium in a single season, and I have seen girls make some definite improvements in form and strength, but lack what is probably enough raw talent to keep pace over time, and ultimately decide Xcel or another sport is a better fit.
Over the years, our gym has taken on quite a few girls (and boys) from less-demanding programs. The adjustments incoming girls had to make in our case (other gyms vary - this is my personal example) were:
1) much more conditioning. Rough at first. Tears by some. Can see improvements to ability in 3 months, and at 6 months have a brand new gymnast who starts to pick up skills much faster (assuming at least some raw talent).
2) more 'serious' coaches who will send you back to do all those 'little' things again and again before moving you on to the 'big' skill. This takes a mindset shift that parents need to help with for the child not to feel defeated. The little things are what make the big thing both possible and great.
3) stricter move-up criteria. Another mindset adjustment.
Girls (and boys) who embraced the above have all made progress. Some are now at the top of their groups. Others, however, have moved on to Xcel or out of gym despite some gains.
(I must also note some top talents in our gym have left for more prestigious gyms with higher hours and more focus on elite opportunities, and they have also made gains in an even more demanding program - it's all relative).
Over the years, our gym has taken on quite a few girls (and boys) from less-demanding programs. The adjustments incoming girls had to make in our case (other gyms vary - this is my personal example) were:
1) much more conditioning. Rough at first. Tears by some. Can see improvements to ability in 3 months, and at 6 months have a brand new gymnast who starts to pick up skills much faster (assuming at least some raw talent).
2) more 'serious' coaches who will send you back to do all those 'little' things again and again before moving you on to the 'big' skill. This takes a mindset shift that parents need to help with for the child not to feel defeated. The little things are what make the big thing both possible and great.
3) stricter move-up criteria. Another mindset adjustment.
Girls (and boys) who embraced the above have all made progress. Some are now at the top of their groups. Others, however, have moved on to Xcel or out of gym despite some gains.
(I must also note some top talents in our gym have left for more prestigious gyms with higher hours and more focus on elite opportunities, and they have also made gains in an even more demanding program - it's all relative).
My dd was definitely bottom-middle of the pack at her old gym. Although, nearly all of them were scoring poorly, so being bottom to middle of the pack was just a matter of a few tenths. After we switched, she came in around middle of the pack at the new gym for a while (still 2-3 points higher than her AA scores at old gym) and after a year or so has consistently been in the top 3 for her level. When we were at the old gym, I really questioned whether gymnastics was really the best avenue for her, but she loved it so we decided to move to a gym that we had seen at meets that did really well and were impressive to watch. I honestly just hoped for personal improvements, never imagined she would be able to catch up with the new teammates. But she put in the hard work and effort and she did. She had to relearn a lot of the very basics, but it has served her well. She still is not the most talented kid out there, but her current gym has brought out her gymnastics abilities and it was more than I ever expected or hoped for. So a good coaching program can most definitely make a huge difference. Also, Xcel ended up being the right path for my dd for the lower levels, but if all goes well she may very well be able to go to optionals next year b/c she has progressed so much. There is nothing wrong with making a change. I'm glad we did and I won't hesitate to make a change again if my dd gets to a place where she has different needs than her current gym can provide. Your dd is still young and if I were you I would want to get her in a better program sooner rather than later if you think this is a sport she wants to be in long term. Most of the time when someone is inquiring about switching gyms, when they come back and update us their only regret is that they didn't do it sooner! Would the other gym let you come in for a trial practice and see how your dd likes it?
I am saying this kindly. Didn't you already make a gym switch? Forgive me if I am confused.
No we didn't -we considered it last year after the meet season ended and explored the option a little too late. Now reconsidering for after this meet season is over. Hard to keep straight, I know.
As you can see I'm having a VERY tough time with the decision.
OP, I believe you've seen my Puma Jr improvement videos? If not I can pm you. A lot can happen in 6 months, let alone a year. It might be a full 2 years before she's 100% caught up, but we're moving in the right direction. I can give you more details if needed. Good luck!!
I guess I'll add that, knowing what I now know about gym (which is way more than I started, but surely not everything), if I had...
an 8 year old who was:
- very enthusiastic about gym
- a motivated, hard worker (key ingredient)
- I suspected had at least a little talent
- in a program I knew was not going to help her be competitive
and we had..
- another option, albeit further of a program known to produce much more polished gymnasts
- and I could make the distance, cost, etc. work,
.. then I would try out the program, no question. For me personally, it would be worth it to try. For me it would be worse to stay in a program I knew was not working well than to try a new program and later figure out my daughter ultimately lacked he talent/drive, etc to be more competitive in JO if that's what my daughter wanted and made her happy. The not knowing is worse for me, coupled with the mental stress of being in (paying for, etc) a program you're not satisfied with. Of course your unique circumstances may differ, but that is my personal feeling.
How does your daughter feel? Is she happy? Or is she getting down on herself for scores/placements? Do you think she would welcome a change or resist?
an 8 year old who was:
- very enthusiastic about gym
- a motivated, hard worker (key ingredient)
- I suspected had at least a little talent
- in a program I knew was not going to help her be competitive
and we had..
- another option, albeit further of a program known to produce much more polished gymnasts
- and I could make the distance, cost, etc. work,
.. then I would try out the program, no question. For me personally, it would be worth it to try. For me it would be worse to stay in a program I knew was not working well than to try a new program and later figure out my daughter ultimately lacked he talent/drive, etc to be more competitive in JO if that's what my daughter wanted and made her happy. The not knowing is worse for me, coupled with the mental stress of being in (paying for, etc) a program you're not satisfied with. Of course your unique circumstances may differ, but that is my personal feeling.
How does your daughter feel? Is she happy? Or is she getting down on herself for scores/placements? Do you think she would welcome a change or resist?
I wouldn't do a trial until you are ready to leave. Word travels fast. If you are waiting till after the season, watch the gym/s you are considering very carefully, how coaches interact with kids, do kids look happy, etc.
I have a DD who will likely always be middle to bottom of the pack, and middle would be great. We've switched gyms quite a few times, never for the reasons you've got, and although she continues to improve, she's still the same girl she was. I suspect in our case it's a lack of that raw gymnastics talent. My DD makes up for it with passion and drive, but that's not likely to get her to podiums. Her current gym is a huge logistical headache (more a migraine) and it's FAR away. It was worth it for me despite everything I've just said. My DD is happy, she's challenged, and she's massively improved even if it doesn't translate to medals. I'd say if you've been considering this for a year now, it's probably time to take that gut feeling seriously.
My oldest was a bottom of the pack gymnast in her first gym ( finished 49th out of 51 in her 1st state meet) but her whole gym was scoring even below her so I evaluated the situation and did some research decided to move from the gym 10 minutes from our house because the coaching just wasn't adequate...we moved to the better gym and she progressed rapidly through the levels, was on TOPS teams, did a stint in elite and competed many years as a successful Level 10 and then NCAA....but if I had left her in her original gym and not put 350,000 miles on my car over the years, I am certain none of this would have happened....
Make the move, give her the chance, you've been thinking about it long enough...
Make the move, give her the chance, you've been thinking about it long enough...
D
Deleted member 14190
Totally depends on the situation, but yea,,, We have gotten a few bottom of the pack kids from another gym that have done really well, and several that quit because it's harder. So,,,, be careful who you wish for. 
From what I've seen from girls who join our team isn't that the coaching is necessarily that much better, but the conditioning usually is. And I've seen some girls come in as mediocre and rise to the top because they work hard at conditioning. Maybe the coaching is better too, but I have my doubts about that sometimes. So my personal opinion is if the conditioning and training regime is better at the other gym and your DD is a hard worker, then you will see significant improvements. If she doesn't want to put in the work, then no you won't. But it sounds like either way, it would be a much better place than where she is now.
coachp, for the love of Pete! Why oh why do you use multiple commas instead of periods? I've tried to ignore it..... I have rationalized it as a simple hitting of the wrong key. But, no. I think you do this on purpose! You're killing me!Totally depends on the situation, but yea,,, We have gotten a few bottom of the pack kids from another gym that have done really well, and several that quit because it's harder. So,,,, be careful who you wish for.
Thanks for all of the comments. I don't know that my DD is super motivated -she's definitely not the kid that comes home from the gym and practices and conditions for 2 more hours -nor do I necessarily think that she should be. Her coach has told her to condition on her off days -I honestly do not support this as I feel that she spends plenty of time in the gym and off days are for other things or being a kid. I am concerned that she won't like a more intense program -for her gymnastics is all fun (she would go every day if she could) but I think it's more about being a part of the team, doing fun stuff, etc. I wouldn't describe her as highly motivated to advance and she doesn't care much about scores, etc -at least she didn't in her first comp season. I'm just so torn! But these responses really help.
D
Deleted member 14190
I,,,, can't ,,, helpcoachp, for the love of Pete! Why oh why do you use multiple commas instead of periods? I've tried to ignore it..... I have rationalized it as a simple hitting of the wrong key. But, no. I think you do this on purpose! You're killing me!
It.
*fetal position...twitching on the ground*I,,,, can't ,,, help
It.
Well even though my 2 gymmies seem to like conditioning more than a lot of of their peers, and early on around age 7-8 got a bit ambitious at home on their own in spurts of some pushups/pullups here or there, I can't imagine either of them truly dedicating time on their own at home on their off day to any 'serious' conditioning long term. I don't think that's an expected norm, so I wouldn't use that as a gauge of her motivation per se...
When she's at gym, does she try hard? As in, doesn't cheat on conditioning, pays attention and tried hard to make corrections? And curious, how many days/hours is she going right now as a L3 repeater?
D
Deleted member 14190
In all honesty , I don't like using ... Because I think it is mostly used when responding to something stupid that someone said or duh or you should know that. So,,,,, get use to it!
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