Parents Need help finding a sport psychologist

[Swiftli]

My 14 yr old DD has spent 8 years in the sport and is currently level 8 for the third time. She has a fear of back tumbling that she battles. She has been battling mental blocks her whole career. When she is confident, she is a beautiful gymnast and excels however, when the fear starts...she becomes self loathing, thinks she is the worst gymnast ever and she backslides on skills she has had mastered for years.

The current block has been going on for 2 years now. At first, I chalked it up to the vestibular immaturity then as the years went on I start to see other issues involving self esteem.

I have worked with the coaches and they are also struggling to find ways to help her. I want to take her to a pyschologist to help with all that is going on...I just don't want some quack that is just out to take my money or buy some quick fix DVD or workbook program and leave us at square one. I don't know the best place to look for a qualified individual who will take the time to learn what is truly going on in my DDs cute little brain and put her on solid path.

Has anyone had any success with a sport psychologist and would recommend one?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Did you try Doc Ali?

 

[Swiftli]

I have looked Doc Ali's site...printed off material for her to read...purchased the Train your mind CD.... Hasn't worked because I can't get her to believe it will help since she feels like it is all her fault and the only thoughts that go through her head is how she is going to fail.

She still says she loves the sport and wants it so bad to work out

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i will keep insisting that you all listen. the problem is vestibular. you must be patient and hope that their vestibular system matures to a level where interruptions in training due to "backwards problems" become a minor nuisance.

you must also let you kids off the "pressure" hook and let them know that THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. they were born this way.

in the big picture of life...it doesn't matter.

 

[gracyomalley]

Your DD sounds like my DD - although mine is stuck unable to progress to competing L8 although she "has" most of the skills on occaision, and is a beautiful gymnast with a reasonable amount of potential - fears have kept her from being consistent and even led to a 6 week "break" to see if she wanted to do gym anymore. For my DD there are lots of other factors interfering with her self esteem and she has some generalized anxiety not related to gym as well, but gym is where it is "in her face" 20 hours a week. She also has had the vestibular issues, and issues with rapid growth, gym changes, poor coaching, etc.

She has been seeing a psychologist who specializes in child and adolescent counseling and sport psychology - and happens to have been an elite level gymnast - I found her both through her old (and codependent) coach and by talking with a child psychologist I work with - I'd recommend you speak with coaches and with your pediatrician.

With my DD the first step has been trying to separate the love of gym from the skills/progression - which was hard as her previous coach was all about "not letting your fears defeat you because you are too good to let this get you down" which didn't work with a kid who already felt bad about being scared and interpreted this as "I don't deserve to take coaching time because I can't make myself get over this." DD is presently training part time, not worrying about competing this year, and trying to decide if she would like to take on the fears with the counselor - with the idea that if she doesn't want to THAT'S OK....and her coach and I are trying hard to sit tight until after comp. season, by which time I feel she will either be in a place to retire or to work through or around her fears.

Its really hard as a parent to see these kids "unable" to do things you've seen them do countless times flawlessly....DD still says she doesn't understand why some of her friends are "so much better than me even with poor form and poor work ethic"....we are working on her recognizing that its not about who's the better gymnast (in many cases DD actually is in these conversations, and I think she sort of knows that which is why she's so frustrated), but that the other kids don't struggle with the fear issues. I feel like if she can develop the self esteem to recognize that she's a good gymnast, but a fearful one, then all her coaches great ideas about breaking down skills, doing alternate ones, etc will actually work quite well....but she may or may not get there in "time" to continue to progress to upper level optionals - similarly to your DD (mine's just turned 12).

There may also be coaches on this forum who know of specific counselors in your area - again, both as a mom and a pediatrician, I would recommend you think about a counselor who can do both the "sports" aspect and the general adolescent aspect - because I would bet a lot that after 3 years of struggling your DD has more stuff to work on than back tumbling....although I'd LOVE to be wrong on that one!

Good luck, and hope she can have a good year - learning/growing wise.....

 

[sce]

you must also let you kids off the "pressure" hook and let them know that THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. they were born this way.

in the big picture of life...it doesn't matter.

This is why she wants to find a sports psychologist. Just her telling her DD is not enough, the kid is hard on herself and needs help getting perspective.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

This is why she wants to find a sports psychologist. Just her telling her DD is not enough, the kid is hard on herself and needs help getting perspective.

i understand. but before the psychologist should come the coach. the coach should be educating them all and then let this child off the hook letting her know she hasn't done something wrong.

 

[Swiftli]

i will keep insisting that you all listen. the problem is vestibular. you must be patient and hope that their vestibular system matures to a level where interruptions in training due to "backwards problems" become a minor nuisance.

you must also let you kids off the "pressure" hook and let them know that THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. they were born this way.

in the big picture of life...it doesn't matter.

I do believe it could have been vestibular which is why I have sat back for 2 years waiting for it become just a minor nuisance, but I do feel that it is affecting her pysche in other ways.

We have met with coaches on several occasions over these struggling years...individually and as a group...which only increases her stress and self defeating attitude. She is losing more and more skills. On bars fee-hip to handstand was easy peasy for her...now she won't even try for the handstand because it feels "off". It is like a plaque that slowing effecting every event.

Someone asked if I view her practices. No, I stopped well over a year ago at her request. The stress of me there made it worse for her. I don't ever discuss gym immediately after a practice. I try to wait till she brings the topic up to ask questions. I have told her I am fine with any and all decisions she wants to make regarding her gymnastics. If continuing is not in her cards, then just come to me and I will help her transition out of the sport. If she wants to stay, then I will support her in any way I can.

This could 100% be vestibular immaturity but at this point, I don't feel she has coping tools to deal with the fact that this is NOT her fault and after a prolonged exposure to the problem it is causing other issues and coaches have offered no tools to her.

 

[MaryA]

i understand. but before the psychologist should come the coach. the coach should be educating them all and then let this child off the hook letting her know she hasn't done something wrong.

Ah, yes... But not all our kids are lucky enough to have you for a coach!

 

[gracyomalley]

The difference between how DD old coach was "managing" her fears and how her new coach is doing so is night and day for my DD - and they both really care/cared about her. Both would tell me as the parent that she was capable of doing the skills, that she certainly had college potential, etc....but the first coach, as DD developed fears last year, had her continue to work on her series (the initial fear was BHS-BHS on high beam) and "not let it defeat you", to the point of not working other things....continuing to emphasize with DD how well she would do in the next level once she got this series, all the other skills she would be able to do then, etc this went on for 18 months, through a winning L7 season and overshadowed her happiness in all that she did achieve during that time - she wasn't known to that coaching staff as the highest scoring optional of the team (which she was) but as the one who couldn't get over her fears on series, even the bars coach this spring, when showing me her bail (which she then lost of course) commented "if she'd only get that series she'd be golden". It was a huge amount of pressure on a kid who couldn't understand herself why she couldn't do the skill without tears and anxiety....old coach only changed the series after DD threw one that ended up a BHS-BLO and landed on her head.....she's a very careful gymnast with excellent form, so this was utterly fear related. What's more, I wasn't told about the head thing - only found out the next day from the large bruise on her forehead....(I worked that night).

New coach spent the summer trying to get her to her potential - and had her doing all her L8 skills in privates, but when DD started getting very anxious her first thought was "is what we are doing in her best interest long term". Sat down with us and gave DD the option of pushing through, stepping back and breaking things down, etc. IMMEDIATELY changed her series to one DD had already competed confidently that would work, and added different skills, etc. Offered competing or not, whichever level DD wished, training full time or backing off or retiring. She also made it very clear to DD that she didn't care what DD chose - that she would be welcome at the gym in whatever role she wanted - that she was part of the "family" whether she was a L8 superstar or just cheering on her brothers and friends....

When DD went into a tailspin and ended up taking a 6 week unplanned "as in - I can't go in there right now mom" break her coach gave her hugs when we picked up her brothers, told her she was welcome back any time to do "anything", and that it was all her choice. She also pointed out to DD all the older girls who had had issues, and repeated because of fears, etc....in a very positive way. Also emphasized that gymnastics is less important than long term happiness.

This coaching approach, along with her counselor who quickly got to the point that gymnastics is a sport and not "life" and that having a way to manage anxiety and fear (and feelings of frustration/failure,how to make decisions about things - in this case quitting gym or not, but more broadly, etc) was where they would focus. It took a few weeks, but led her to see that she wasn't ready to give up on gym, but wasn't quite ready to "get over those issues yet"....counselor offered to address fears specifically at any time when DD wishes, leaving her in charge.

Dunno is right - these kids need to know they aren't at fault - but its not as simple as just saying it - the coaches have to coach with that in mind, and realize that these kids probably are harder on themselves than you could ever be. I'm sure its very frustrating to have brought a kid up through compulsories, seen their potential and then watch them struggle....imagine how we parents feel! Once a kid has developed a fear of a skill (or a vestibular issue) and it has generalized to other skills its really not "about gym" anymore....sure, some of it is physical and will resolve with finishing growing, etc...but its the confidence to know you can get through stuff that they need - and that has to come from within - DD pointed out that she wanted to please her coaches so much she would make herself do things in privates but couldn't other times because she didn't truly believe she had the skill....coach asks her to try a back tuck on beam - she lands it first try no mats...but in group can't do her ROBHSBT on floor right now....a skill she has had for many years....and to her the gymnast doing the perfect BT on beam is not HER, the one FAILING in the group is....

I don't believe in parents "coaching" their kids...but I will say that last year I was told to stay away from the gym, and I am still trying to counteract a lot of the stuff that DD went through - new coach encouraged parents to be actively involved (although she is very clear on her coaching decisions, level requirements, safety stuff, etc...) and operates under a "I have nothing to hide, and I am a parent too" approach. Kicking me out made DD think that again, if she didn't perform well when I did watch I would be disappointed - whereas I would have NEVER wished her to cry through multiple privates working on a skill a level or even 2 ahead of what she needed that year - even if the coach gave her a hug between each try....as a parent I would have liked to help find a better solution...

This year I have let her know that

a: what she does with gym is up to her as long as she is respectful and kind, but that I don't like the idea of running away from things as a lifetime strategy so I'd like her to find a different way to "retire" if that's what she ends up wanting. She is mature enough to come to a decision, but young enough at 12 that I will guide her some. (I think she took too much on last year - she's a very mature kid and people forget that she's only just turned 12 and needs adult guidance).

b: I know she could physically learn many higher level skills if she wishes to overcome the fears, but its totally up to her whether she chooses to fight that fight - and I don't expect her to do college gym/elite, etc. Her dreams and goals with gym and life are up to her.

c: I will help her with counseling, privates, nutrition, books, etc - whatever she needs/wants, but I'm not the coach and again, this is about her not me

d: going back in that gym even to train part time was far braver than throwing her series perfectly in all the meets last year....and being able to back off and give herself time to decide a far more important skill than any she's afraid of! Learning to not judge herself by her "failures" and in comparison to others but rather by her own internal compass far more important the "keeping up with her friends".

Super long winded, I know, but if our journey can help anyone else, then worth it!

 

[SignHere]

While I appreciate dunno' input, and agree that vestibular is the likely beginning off the problem for the OPs DD, a psychologist would help her deal with the anxiety she is likely feeling due to her prolonged troubles. If your pediatrician can recommend a good child psychologist, I would start there. The child psychologist may be able to help your DD with coping strategies, or if she is unable, can refer you to a sports psychologist.

 

[Clover]

I am a big believer in the power of a good sports psychologist. It is not that I don't believe in the vestibular impacts. However, whether caused by vestibular or other reasons these things can affect a child's self confidence, feeling of self worth, etc. It is a downward spiral. A good sports psychologist can help with coping skills and improving self confidence. This goes well beyond gymnastics. A good sports psychologist has impacts in many areas of the child's life. I do have a name of a great one, but it would only help you if you are local. I feel being able to talk in person is much more effective than books, web casts, etc. If you PM me and tell me what part of the country you live in I can give you the name of the fantastic person we use if you are nearby.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

guys and gals...if you have a good psychologist...but a d*** of a coach countering what the good psychologist is doing, then everything being done becomes counterproductive. it STARTS with the coach. and a psychologist is never going to put a leo on to understand just how daunting this issue is to a kid.

a good coach recognizes and respects the vestibular system every step of the way in the development of a gymnast. the vestibular system controls ALL things in gymnastics.

and it's a problem if you have a coach, a parent or a psychologist that DON'T understand the impact of the vestibular system on an athlete.

i wanted to add here to Clover and Signhere. under your names it says proud parent. under mine is says also former gymnast. and i was also a trampolinist, tumbler and double mini competitor. i was competing when you weren't even born yet. i did things like triple twisting triples, triffis triffis and a whole slew of other things that scared me 1/2 to death before the age of 15. this included going thru periods when i wouldn't go backwards, go forwards AND had the twisties. i competed against Wayne "The Miller" Miller.

now, everyone at this site in gymnastics knows who and what i'm talking about. i've been looking at this problem for well over 50 years. vestibular doesn't discriminate. it attacks everyone and anyone doing gymnastics and diving at some point in their career. some struggle with it their entire careers. for some, it comes and goes. and for a few of us, our vestibular system matures to a point where it no longer interferes with what we do. for me? i was 16 when the problem abated. from 13 to 16 was a real b****.

you have NO idea what it feels like or what goes thru the head of an athlete when they are about to perform a full out and they can't "remember" how to initiate it. and you then end up doing a full in. or, you're about to do a triple full, you go, and you only end up doing a sidewards back flip. BUT YOU THOUGHT YOU TRIPLE TWISTED! it was the coach that had to talk us down off the ledge.

now, i mean none of you any disrespect. and for those that have been here awhile know i'm not arrogant. i tell it like it is. so when i tell you that NO ONE can get an athlete thru these problems except a good coach and the athlete themselves it is coming from a person that not only coaches...but did it all as an athlete many moons ago. so while a good psychologist can positively contribute to an athlete coping with this problem and with mental tools to damper anxiety, they will NEVER FIX this problem so that it goes away.

my motivation for bringing this up again is for the benefit of ALL of you so that your kids are given the time to see if they outgrow the problem instead of quitting to soon which so many of them do. if growing up is a condition of adulthood, then so is growing up and giving the time to the vestibular system to see if it matures to the point where it will NOT interfere with the athlete.


that's all.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

and i'm also bringing this up again to remind everyone who has a child or athlete with this problem...STOP SCREAMING, SWEARING AND BERATING THESE KIDS! it's not their fault. you're born this way. they haven't done anything wrong and they are NOT stupid, or fat, or suck or...any of the other derogatory words these kids have been called.

 

[MaryA]

That's it. I'm moving. Tell me where I need to move to have you work with my 13-year-old and I'm there.

 

[Gymsanity]

guys and gals...if you have a good psychologist...but a d*** of a coach countering what the good psychologist is doing, then everything being done becomes counterproductive. it STARTS with the coach. and a psychologist is never going to put a leo on to understand just how daunting this issue is to a kid.

a good coach recognizes and respects the vestibular system every step of the way in the development of a gymnast. the vestibular system controls ALL things in gymnastics.

and it's a problem if you have a coach, a parent or a psychologist that DON'T understand the impact of the vestibular system on an athlete.

i wanted to add here to Clover and Signhere. under your names it says proud parent. under mine is says also former gymnast. and i was also a trampolinist, tumbler and double mini competitor. i was competing when you weren't even born yet. i did things like triple twisting triples, triffis triffis and a whole slew of other things that scared me 1/2 to death before the age of 15. this included going thru periods when i wouldn't go backwards, go forwards AND had the twisties. i competed against Wayne "The Miller" Miller.

now, everyone at this site in gymnastics knows who and what i'm talking about. i've been looking at this problem for well over 50 years. vestibular doesn't discriminate. it attacks everyone and anyone doing gymnastics and diving at some point in their career. some struggle with it their entire careers. for some, it comes and goes. and for a few of us, our vestibular system matures to a point where it no longer interferes with what we do. for me? i was 16 when the problem abated. from 13 to 16 was a real b****.

you have NO idea what it feels like or what goes thru the head of an athlete when they are about to perform a full out and they can't "remember" how to initiate it. and you then end up doing a full in. or, you're about to do a triple full, you go, and you only end up doing a sidewards back flip. BUT YOU THOUGHT YOU TRIPLE TWISTED! it was the coach that had to talk us down off the ledge.

now, i mean none of you any disrespect. and for those that have been here awhile know i'm not arrogant. i tell it like it is. so when i tell you that NO ONE can get an athlete thru these problems except a good coach and the athlete themselves it is coming from a person that not only coaches...but did it all as an athlete many moons ago. so while a good psychologist can positively contribute to an athlete coping with this problem and with mental tools to damper anxiety, they will NEVER FIX this problem so that it goes away.

my motivation for bringing this up again is for the benefit of ALL of you so that your kids are given the time to see if they outgrow the problem instead of quitting to soon which so many of them do. if growing up is a condition of adulthood, then so is growing up and giving the time to the vestibular system to see if it matures to the point where it will NOT interfere with the athlete.


that's all.

Would appreciate any links that you feel are useful in the realm of gymnastic fears and the vestibular system. Thanks.