Neutral News (not meant to be a political discussion)

[JBS]

Is it always like this where news is always swung really hard one way or the other? Are there any news sites that are known to try to be neutral? Sifting through the data and charts on Coronavirus is crazy... you can make a curve look totally different to the general public just by changing the fine print of the chart (and the chart can still have the same title).



DAILY NEW CORONAVIRUS CASES (EXAMPLE 1)

[chart here]

*This chart was calculated by the date the individual tested positive. There may be delays in calculation.



DAILY NEW CORONAVIRUS CASES (EXAMPLE 2)

[chart here]

* 14-day window – Confirmed cases over the last 14 days may not be accounted for due to illnesses yet to be reported or test results may still be pending.
The date indicated for the newly confirmed COVID-19 cases is based on the combination of dates based on: 1) date of symptom onset; 2) if the date is invalid or missing, the first positive collection date is used and 3) if both of those dates are invalid or missing, the date the case is reported is used. The date for deaths is based on the date of death reported.
Note - Data during the reporting period may be incomplete due to the lag in time between when the case was tested and/or reported and submitted. This delay can vary depending on the testing facility and/or jurisdiction.

 

[gymgal]

the charts are not showing up for my on my laptop

 

[JBS]

the charts are not showing up for my on my laptop

There are no charts... it's just an example of titles and fine print. I can definitely tell you that those two charts definitely would not look the same though.

 

[JessSyd]

Sometimes when I want a nonpartisan look at an Australian event, I see what foreign news outlets are saying. So I check NZ newspapers or the BBC.

For this specific topic, I think I would just go to sites compiled by datanerds rather than media sites, because data nerds don’t want to editorialise, they just want to get the data compiled nicely. There are a few sites out there where the main desire seems to be to compile good data and display it well and politics just don’t come into it.

I know a few good apolitical Australian Covid sites, but am not really across any US sites. There are a few world sites, but their information is only as good as the data it can glean from each country. The commitment to use that data well is there though.

This one is cool: There are a wide range of data sets on display - raw numbers, per capita, etc. Lots of the charts are customisable so you can just plug in the countries you want to track, and you can switch the traps between linear and logarithmic depending on how you would prefer to visualise the data.

Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)

Country-by-country data and research on the pandemic. Updated daily.

ourworldindata.org

And this is only as accurate as its last update, but provides some good ‘at a glance’ information as a table rather than a graph. The ‘new cases’ and ‘new deaths’ columns are out of date very quickly after it is updated, but if you click through on most countries there is more information, including linked sources.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 136,661,795 Cases and 2,950,186 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

 

[mommyof1]

Without seeing the graphs. It is difficult to say that they have been manipulated. I am assuming the top one is the “everything is fine” version and the bottom one is the “we have a crisis” version, but that is because the footnote on the bottom one is more explicit with its caveats, which means it’s likely to be more scholarly in nature. But the complicated footnote could also be an attempt to confuse people and make them think the graph is more “scientific.”

There are a lot of ways to “manipulate“ graphs, and it is sometimes done to make them more readable rather than for nefarious purposes. One way is to start the y axis at a number other than zero. This makes it easier to see fluctuations in the y value and also makes them appear larger than they really are. I avoid this in my work, but I see it a lot. Another way is to use a logarithmic scale for the y axis. This makes it easier to compare across groups (like states or countries) where the y values differ greatly. It is also useful when dealing with exponential growth, which is what’s happening with the virus. I have seen logarithmic scales in some of the coronavirus reporting. They are useful for visualizing the data, but I’m not sure the general public really understands what they are seeing.

 

[ldw4mlo]

Data. Presented various ways.

Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Johns Hopkins experts in global public health, infectious disease, and emergency preparedness have been at the forefront of the international response to COVID-19.

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[JBS]

Without seeing the graphs. It is difficult to say that they have been manipulated.

The data actually hasn't been "manipulated" as far as I know. The graphs are actually showing different things based on the fine print. One started about the same with a slight increase while the other went down aggressively. The graphs were not included as they are not important in the conversation. The fact of the matter is that the same exact data would look very different if graphs where created using the fine print... while the title still reads the same. Some people are jumping from site to site wondering why the same chart is different without looking at how the chart was built.

I have seen logarithmic scales in some of the coronavirus reporting.

I would agree that the general public does not understand this. And your whole paragraph is what I am talking about... the public just looks at "up"... "down"... or "flat". They don't seem to understand what it means. I've had people show me logarithmic data and make comments about it... then you have them click the button to the linear scale and they are astounded by what they see.

I think I would just go to sites compiled by datanerds rather than media sites

This is more of what I was looking for... @JessSyd I think you are hitting it on the head. I have been using the Worldometer site and others to look at stuff.

I just didn't really realize how slanted some media is... just didn't pay attention I guess. Before college went the wrong direction for me... I was studying nuclear engineering... so data I do understand.

 

[JBS]

Forgot to add... the data will probably look the same in the long run... I am just feeling like some put out certain data right away and others "delay" it for some time. This makes a big difference in what the general public is seeing as they pretty much only see "now".

 

[mommyof1]

The data underlying the two graphs are different. Example 1 is new positive tests by date (on which the test was adminsitered? on which the positive test was returned?). Example 2 is new cases by date, with the date attributed per the footnote (preferably date of symptom onset, which will be earlier than the test date). Both acknowledge reporting delay but don't give many specifics about its potential magnitude or impact.

 

[JBS]

The data underlying the two graphs are different. Example 1 is new positive tests by date (on which the test was adminsitered? on which the positive test was returned?). Example 2 is new cases by date, with the date attributed per the footnote (preferably date of symptom onset, which will be earlier than the test date). Both acknowledge reporting delay but don't give many specifics about its potential magnitude or impact.

And still the title is the same... you seem to be completely missing the point of the thread. You're actually examining data that doesn't even exist. I didn't put the charts in because the point of the thread was...

Is it always like this where news is always swung really hard one way or the other? Are there any news sites that are known to try to be neutral?

The "pushing" or "delaying" of data off of the normal timeline seems to be a pretty real thing right now from certain sites. That's all I was saying. I just haven't noticed how messed up the media really is as I don't pay tons of attention to it.

 

[bogwoppit]

US media is totally messed up, how do you folk even find real news. It all seems to be slanted from one political angle or the other. I had this discussion with a US friend the other day, she agreed that it was impossible to finds just facts in the news options there.

I used the worldometer site often. Our Canadian broadcasting agency, CBC, is pretty balanced and good at fact based reporting, and presentation of data.

 

[ldw4mlo]

My governor today (and it is now being reported by the news as pretty much fact) said that new infections/hospital infections are about 90% from people who have been staying home. I can not tell you how full of cr&p his data is.

 

[ldw4mlo]

US media is totally messed up, how do you folk even find real news.

You can't find actual news. Its all op ed.

 

[mommyof1]

And still the title is the same... you seem to be completely missing the point of the thread. You're actually examining data that doesn't even exist. I didn't put the charts in because the point of the thread was...

I was just pointing out that the underlying data are not, as you asserted, the same. At least not according to the footnotes.

 

[JBS]

I was just pointing out that the underlying data are not, as you asserted, the same. At least not according to the footnotes.

The underlying "people" that the information is coming from has to be the same as I am looking at Coronavirus stats in a particular state. I didn't state any of this as it wasn't relevant at all. I was simply asking for a cool place to find charts and graphs about COVID-19 that didn't have so much "slant" with it. @ldw4mlo and @JessSyd gave me some ideas.

Like I said... I'm good with understanding data... you're actually typing into a MySQL database right now.

If you want to call it different "data" because they are picking a different column in the database to chart... cool... I agree.

 

[mommyof1]

Try your state hospital association’s dashboard, then. Ours is more transparent and detailed than the state health department’s site.

The New York Times breaks down caseloads by state and county.

 

[mommyof1]

For unbiased news: NPR listeners give more correct answers when quizzed about current events than consumers of any other news source.

 

[JBS]

@mommyof1 Alright... you got me... let's scrap the original theme of the thread. Give me your view of the Georgia stats right now... as reported by Georgia DPH. Here is a random article that I had not read until literally 2 minutes ago (yes... I see the "enquirer in the name)...

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article242416536.html

 

[JBS]

For unbiased news: NPR listeners give more correct answers when quizzed about current events than consumers of any other news source.

What is NPR?

EDIT: Found it.

 

[mommyof1]

@mommyof1 Alright... you got me... let's scrap the original theme of the thread. Give me your view of the Georgia stats right now... as reported by Georgia DPH. Here is a random article that I had not read until literally 2 minutes ago (yes... I see the "enquirer in the name)...

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/coronavirus/article242416536.html

Ah, Georgia state government data. I cannot say any more about that on a public forum.