Parents Not moving up to level 5

[GymnastMomX2]

Hi all! I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. Anyways, here is my question for you guys. My daughter is just finishing up her level 4 season, they just announced summer schedules/move-ups and we were disappointed to find out that they are keeping her at level 4.

I am a former gymnast and coach(in HS/college) so I have a pretty decent understanding of the skills needed for level 5. That being said I don't watch the workouts so all I really know is what I see at meets, and what my daughter tells me. (she just turned 9 last week).

Her past two AA scores for level 4 have been 36.65 and 36.6... She has gotten 9s on every event and is one of only two girls in level 4 currently that has her kip on bars. There are a couple girls that are a few years older without kips who have been asked to go to level 5 for the summer.

I KNOW she is weak on beam/floor, she doesn't hit her handstand on beam at vertical, she only does her carwheel on a lowish beam, on floor she can do the two back handsprings, but her front handspring is SUPER sloppy. Her leaps and jumps also need some work.

That being said.. it seems like a waste of time to do level 4 for an entire year AGAIN.

I'm supposed to talk to her head coach tomorrow, but I am nervous.. for some reason I have it in my head that she doesn't like my daughter.. but I dont really have any proof of this, its just a hunch.

What do you guys think? Any pointers on how to approach this with her coaches without coming across as a crazy gym mom.

 

[MaryA]

Yeah, a 36+ at 4, which isn't even a "required" level plus a consistant kip would make me think she's ready for 5. Are there other 9-year-olds moving up? Maybe HC thinks that keeping her with her friends/age-mates make keep gymnastics more fun for her? Probably coaches would be better at telling you what to say and what not to say. Maybe talk about what motivates your child. If your child is more motivated by learning new skills than she is by bringing home a trophy, tell them that. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[SignHere]

At my dds gym, girls must have the high and low bar kip, squat on, and dismount on bars, vertical handstand and cartwheel on beam, the front handspring vault, front handspring , back extension roll, dive roll and round off BHS BHS on floor. These are all difficult skills and level 5 is a difficult year for many girls to be successful in, especially if some of their skills are shaky. Do they move up at the end of the summer, too?
9 years is not too old to do a second year at 4 if that what her coaches think is best. Also, the experience of winning first place can be a real confidence booster for a child and that is more likely in a second year of 4 than if she moves up.

But regardless. Good luck!

 

[SignHere]

Also, I wanted to say... Don't worry about the girls without Kip's who have been asked to level 5 for the summer .
First, you don't know what the conversation was with their parents (maybe they have CGMs). And second, there IS a big difference between a 9 year old repeating level 4 and an 11 year old doing so.

 

[lhmom]

If it were me, I think I would just ask for them to clarify what the coaches' criteria is since gyms can vary greatly in determining move-ups. DD's gym usually has every girl do 2 years of 4 (unless they are older) then move up. Other gyms have qualifying scores and a set date to have the skills. When you meet with the HC, maybe you can say that your DD was disappointed and you'd like to explain to her what the coaches are looking for. Good luck!

 

[Clover]

Reasons for moving up/not moving up can differ significantly from gym to gym. Although skills and scores are important, at my gym, they seem to be secondary to other factors - strength, flexibility, coachability, attitude, committment, maturity, confidence, etc. I am not sure if any of these apply to your DD, but it very well could be something that is not related to skills and scores causing the coach to recommend she repeat 4. I hope the meeting with your DD's coach gives you the answers you are looking for.

 

[SGMOM]

I stumbled on these articles a while ago, and I hope that one helps:

Gymnastics Coaches- Love your compulsory programs |

GYMNASTICS COACHES- Dealing with Parents |

The first one is about leveling. The second one is about coaches dealing with parents.

If you can, I'd suggest entering the meeting with the mindset that your daughter's coach likes your daughter and has her best interests at heart. And, really, that's probably the case else you would not be sticking around at that gym. Since she has done well at 4, the concern would be that she is having difficulty acquiring the level 5 skills or is not mature enough for that level. I would try to find out which is the primary concern. If it's a skill issue, maybe it would be possible to train level 5 and compete 4; or, maybe she could do some private lessons. Perhaps a mid-season move up to 5 might be possible in one of those cases? Maybe they could re-evaluate her in a few months after her extra effort? If this is a maturity issue, then maybe pinpointing what is going on will help? Also, the gym plan may be to train more advanced skills for the remaining 4s.

 

[GymBee97]

I would wait to see what they say at the meeting and see then if they would consider your DD training L5 for the summer with some privates to work on some of the weak areas with the understanding that if she doesn't have her skills she would compete L4 for this season.

 

[sportsmom22]

I would approach the meeting in a way that focuses on your daughter. Tell the coach, she was a little disappointed not to be moving up and then ask what she needs to work on to be able to move up to the next level. At our gym, most girls are moved up at the beginning of summer, but some may move up later. Also, at our gym, just because you are moved up into a new training group, if you don't have all your skills at competition time, you will still compete old level. Honestly because all gyms are different, you never know what a coach is thinking. Does your gym have an option of working out with a higher level group one night a week? Good luck at your meeting.

 

[J&A's mom]

I really only know about our boys, but there were a few boys that did the first couple of meets at their old level, and when they/the coach felt comfortable with them moving up, they did. Maybe that is why? Maybe they see her as a leader for the level 4 team also?

 

[gymgal]

I would think that if you are having a meeting with the coach, he/she already knows you will be asking these questions, so I would just try to be as objective as possible. Really, scores from the previous year only show how much she has mastered that level skills - and not even that, if a gymnast is really good at one event, which can hide problems with a low scoring event. And even high scoring girls can have trouble getting the next level of skills. I think I would approach it as your dd is really looking forward to getting her new skills for the next level and do they feel this would be possible before the season starts. This would open the door to the discussion as to what their thinking is.

 

[JessLW]

For sure met with the coach and ask for clarification.

The kip is a big deal, if she has that, I don't see what the holdup is, unless it is super sloppy. The other skills, like the front handspring or the BHSx2, can be cleaned up over the summer as long as she has them. Maybe her beam really is holding her back, it sounds like it is weaker than the rest of the skills, but a lot could happen with that over the summer.

I'd try to go in as objectively as possible. Make your daughter's goals clear to the coaches. Also encourage your daughter to speak frankly to the coach herself about her goals. When parents approach coaches with concerns about levels it can seem to the coaches a bit CGM, but I think the coaches appreciate it when girls have clear goals that they'd like to reach and express willingness to meet those goals. If you go in there and basically say, look, DD really wants to compete at level 5, what does she need to work on to make it happen (and DD is saying the same to her coach in practice), I think you'll have a better outcome than if you go in there with a "why are you holding back my child?!" type mindset.

 

[gym law mom]

Go in calmly and let the coach talk first. As others have said she probably knows you'll have questions and may cover everything. Don't get into comparing your dd to any other girl on the team! That is a losing argument. Do let the coach know your dd was disappointed and would like every chance possible to move to L5. Do ask the coach to go over the plan for your dd(not just the team) for the next year.
After the meeting with the coach let your dd know what was said and what the plan is and see if you both feel good about it.
Good luck--you'll do fine.

 

[GymBee97]

So how did it go!!!

 

[AGM78910]

My 2 cents.
Bear in mind that there are many gyms who repeat level 4s and 5s to get higher scores the next season. They then post these scores on their websites, bragging about how many state champions they have. Also they have more kids at compulsory levels which is a real money maker for the gym. Puleeeze! I have seen some girls repeat level 4 three times. Of course if a kid spends 4-6 years at the compulsory levels, what happens when they get to optionals? Sounds like the kid is more than ready for level 5 especially if she already has her kip. Just look at the gym history and see how many repeaters there are.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! It always helps to get a different perspective on things.

Sooo.. I talked to two of her coaches today. Coach A basically brushed me off saying a lot of the girls are repeating (4 of 12) and that the level 5 skills are harder (I know this lol) and shes just not ready. She also mentioned that while she's getting 36s at the past couple meets they want to see their scores that high or higher for the whole season (her first two meets she had mid-34s w/ falls on beam/bars). I asked about possible private lessons to help her, and she said we could do that, but didn't make it sound like she thought it would help. She also mentioned that they always re-evaluate at the end of the summer.

Coach B on the other hand had a totally different opinion, he told me that when all the coaches (they have 5) sat down to discuss move-ups that my daughter caused an argument, he voted to move her to 5, but was outvoted/outranked. He is her bars coach and mentioned that he plans on only working level 5/6 bar skills with her this summer. I asked him about re-evaluations at the end of the summer, and he seemed skeptical, and said she would need to REALLY be ready with her level 5 skills for them to even consider it.

Both coaches were trying to play up how cool it would be to "win" everything. There are 3 level 4s currently that are repeats and they are all scoring in the 37-38 AA range this year.. so it seems like they always hold back a few girls to boost scores?

So, my final thoughts on this are that coach A has the most pull, even though she doesn't come to the meets and only sees them once a week on one event. (she is the head coach of the optionals) and it just so happens that this is my daughters worst event.

Its frustrating, because coach A also mentioned that its not just about having the skills (for instance her two back handsprings) but about doing them well. Isn't that what they would be working on from now until Jan when competitions start?! (fyi... my daughter is having the hardest times getting her legs straight! even though shes had this skill for over 2 years now.. I think shes so used to practicing it sloppy she doesnt know how to fix it)

-frustrated mama

 

[gymgal]

Glad you had the meeting and were able to speak with two. I can understand where the bars coach is coming from but since this seems to be your dd's best event, his view is skewed. I am not sure that your program is holding girls back for the big scores. They sound like a program that wants to make sure their girls have solid skills and they may place more value on certain skills, like the bhs, which will affect all future back tumbling. Holding her in level 4 will give her more time to correct those errors while not having to worry about focusing on larger skills. They may feel that she is young enough to benefit from this, and then have stronger seasons in the upper levels. If she were older or a girl they felt would not benefit, then their decision might be different. And experienced coaches also have a good sense several months in advance whether a girl is going to be ready for the next level. Yes, there are always surprises (hence, their willingness to move her at the end of the summer if she advances faster than expected) but usually, they are on target. I'd be inclined to trust them on this. It sounds like they have your dd's best interest in mind.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Scores at level 4 do not give a good indication of readiness for level 5. Level 4-5 is a big step, and even the best level 4 may not have all the skills.
handspring over the vault table
glide kip
squat on and jump to high bar
long kip
long hang swings
cartwheel on beam
held beam handstand
front handsprings
connected back handsprings

Backward roll to handstand

 

[gymgal]

Scores at level 4 do not give a good indication of readiness for level 5. Level 4-5 is a big step, and even the best level 4 may not have all the skills.
handspring over the vault table
glide kip
squat on and jump to high bar
long kip
long hang swings
cartwheel on beam
held beam handstand
front handsprings
connected back handsprings

Backward roll to handstand

and not just getting the skills, but perfecting them and putting them into routines then perfecting them in time for competition.

 

[Pickle's Mom]

When it comes down to it, it's really just a question of do you trust this gym and like it's strategies or not?

Despite your experience, you have hired them to train your daughter. I don't think you will change their mind on this move, but you can always change your mind and find another gym if you don't trust their decision. For example, Pickle's gym is not a hold-them-back-to-win-trophies place, but other gyms in our area are. I don't think either strategy is wrong, but it could be wrong for some children.

I know when Pickles was an L4, there was some concern about moving her up even though she had won plenty of gold medals and had a strong, straight-arm kip and a cartwheel on beam. Mostly it was about vault. My child is a beautiful athlete, but even I admit she can't punch worth ****. The vault coach was very concerned about her safety on a handspring vault. They decided to move her up anyway, but vault continues to be rocky. In two years, I think she has blocked maybe twice in competition. I don't think her vault coach dislikes her, but I've seen both of their frustrations in dealing with one another.

If you think your daughter is being treated unfairly, you really should leave.