WAG Numbers of L9 and 10s moving from Regionals to Nationals.....something seems crazy!

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lovofu

Proud Parent
Jan 8, 2009
430
Des Moines Iowa
Now in the interest of fairness, I never used the word HATE and just offered another opinion. I did just what you say you wish you could do. I packed my family up for a better quality of life and a side benefit was good coaching too, though DD was getting great coaching in Virginia. It will never be "fair" for all, this system does not work like that. Judges are different etc, the list goes on. It IS fair inside each region. Girls are judged on that day, by the same judges and the team is selected. What is being discussed in the perception of inequality across regions. BUT, all girls are not judged by the SAME judges the same day so the system is inherently scewed. SO, if you want to move to Des Moines...come on over! We love it here.
I really don't see where you think this "hate" is coming from. Folks here are discussing and trying to solve an equity issue in number of gymnasts competing in the various regions to create a level playing field so that each Region has pretty much the same number of gymnasts in Level 9 and 10 to field the most competitive and fairest selected team for each Region. That's all.

Quite frankly, if I could, I would leave my larger, stronger gym state in a New York minute for a top gym in Des Moines, not because I could game the system but because I believe I could have a better quality of life plus have the confidence my daughter would be getting better coaching. Life is about sacrifices, gymnastics is about sacrifices, all gymnasts at this level of training work their butts off, and if there is a simple way to provide a more equitable path to Nationals, Easterns and Westerns, for all gymnasts, regardless of where their families live, I'm for it.
 
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D

Deleted member 14190

can the two coaches in this thread work with their respective regions to make make this happen? If it comes from the parents, it just sounds like parents complaining that their kids didn't make nationals.. This comes up every single year and nothing every changes. (well, barely anything change - they did make minor tweaks to how they assign the unfilled spots, raised the minimum score)

Someone draft a letter we can send to our regional rep/USAG... maybe a change.org petition?
Actually the parents have a lot if not more weight with USAG. :)
 

wandrewsjr

Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 4, 2009
2,489
And what about that kid from Reno or Wichita or Biloxi that will be staying home from Nationals with their 37's because their Region is huge? They have a hard time attracting coaches and can't just up and move to a different gym either. And they worked their butts off just as hard as yours did.
 
D

Deleted member 14190

What about the girls in smaller states in the largest regions - Arkansas, Wyoming, Kansas, New Mexico - any they can't just move to a bigger better gym sympathy for them?
Exactly, and the kids in power states who are at lesser gyms are just as equal as the kids in small states , A child is a child. If USAG sees kids in smaller states as more entitled to go to larger meets, then they should not be paying the same USAG fees and meet entry fees, they should pay more for the special treatment.... Everyone pays the same, everyone should have close to the same chance to make it to nationals.... Obviously this should not happen, but it is a point.
 

GymDad9.9

Proud Parent
Feb 16, 2016
1,089
Now in the interest of fairness, I never used the word HATE and just offered another opinion. I did just what you say you wish you could do. I packed my family up for a better quality of life and a side benefit was good coaching too, though DD was getting great coaching in Virginia. It will never be "fair" for all, this system does not work like that. Judges are different etc, the list goes on. It IS fair inside each region. Girls are judged on that day, by the same judges and the team is selected. What is being discussed in the perception of inequality across regions. BUT, all girls are not judged by the SAME judges the same day so the system is inherently scewed. SO, if you want to move to Des Moines...come on over! We love it here.
"Hate" is probably a poor word choice for this discussion so my apologies. And your explanation that follows is really where you are missing the point. I believe there is clear consensus that judging across Regions differ. The issue is all about the numbers of girls in the respective regions. They are not equal numbers across the regions and the argument is being made that there should be a mechanism to equalize the number of girls being judged in each region and a redrawing of the map is the simplest way to achieve that and apparently it's been decades since the last redrawing of the regional map. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but what is so unfair about that?

I'd love to see you in Des Moines. I have a young son who I think would be a tremendous wrestler. Do you think Iowa is a strong state for that?:)
 

lovofu

Proud Parent
Jan 8, 2009
430
Des Moines Iowa
And what about that kid from Reno or Wichita or Biloxi that will be staying home from Nationals with their 37's because their Region is huge? They have a hard time attracting coaches and can't just up and move to a different gym either. And they worked their butts off just as hard as yours did.
Well, I was just making a point...I have never said that one is more deserving but I have also felt the need to say that they are not less deserving either. I have also never said that realigning the regions is a bad idea. I don't care how the regions are aligned, except that I don't think they should realign then without real analysis and a thought to what makes the most sense. When I wrote my daughter works hard, I NEVER said harder than your daughter or any other gymnast. Just wanted everyone to remember there are stories and people attached to each score. So please read what I write, and don't put words like "hate" etc in my mouth. It is really irritating. Going forward, realignment would help. But this year...talking about the high 37 staying home is not productive...it's the same as saying she deserved to go MORE than a lower scoring girl from another region...though judging etc was different on that day.
 

wandrewsjr

Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 4, 2009
2,489
Well, I was just making a point...I have never said that one is more deserving but I have also felt the need to say that they are not less deserving either. I have also never said that realigning the regions is a bad idea. I don't care how the regions are aligned, except that I don't think they should realign then without real analysis and a thought to what makes the most sense. When I wrote my daughter works hard, I NEVER said harder than your daughter or any other gymnast. Just wanted everyone to remember there are stories and people attached to each score. So please read what I write, and don't put words like "hate" etc in my mouth. It is really irritating.
I was not the one that used the word hate. By saying this in your reply to my post you are implying I did. Please don't.
 

Sasha

Proud Parent
May 15, 2013
1,583
If someone can get a list of the numbers of L9s and L10s in each State, we can all have a fun experiment here to redraw the boundaries with respect and consideration to...

- number of gymnasts
- anchor "power" states in a region (Texas, NorCal, SoCal, Florida... who else?)
- geographic travel sensibilities (including distance, anchor cities easier to fly into, etc)

I have no idea where to find these numbers, though.
 
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D

Deleted member 14190

Well, I was just making a point...I have never said that one is more deserving but I have also felt the need to say that they are not less deserving either. I have also never said that realigning the regions is a bad idea. I don't care how the regions are aligned, except that I don't think they should realign then without real analysis and a thought to what makes the most sense. When I wrote my daughter works hard, I NEVER said harder than your daughter or any other gymnast. Just wanted everyone to remember there are stories and people attached to each score. So please read what I write, and don't put words like "hate" etc in my mouth. It is really irritating. Going forward, realignment would help. But this year...talking about the high 37 staying home is not productive...it's the same as saying she deserved to go MORE than a lower scoring girl from another region...though judging etc was different on that day.
I think we can all agree that a child who scores a 37.8 has more of a right to go to nationals than a child who scores a 35. But that can never be changed . That being said , I have a gymnast who scores above 37.9 at several meets, got injured prior to state. Went to state endured the pain (she could of just petitioned ). Qualified for regionals on her own fell off beam at regionals scoring above 37.3, does not get to go. This is a sad story yes?
If someone can get a list of the numbers of L9s and L10s in each State, we can all have a fun experiment here to redraw the boundaries with respect and consideration to...

- number of gymnasts
- anchor "power" states in a region (Texas, NorCal, SoCal, Florida... who else?)
- geographic travel sensibilities (including distance, anchor cities easier to fly into, etc)

I have no idea where to find these numbers, though.
not sure either but going to MSO or mymeetscores you can bring up each state. It needs to be done by level 10 as that is the priority in my opinion.
 
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chalkbowl

Judge
Fan
Nov 16, 2006
619
not sure either but going to MSO or mymeetscores you can bring up each state. It needs to be done by level 10 as that is the priority in my opinion.

Below is the number of athletes who scored a 34.000+ at their level 10 state championships (meaning it doesn't include petitions to regionals or event specialists):

Nor Cal - 54
So Cal - 86
Arizona - 52
Utah - 31
Nevada - 17

Washington - 28
Idaho - 5
Hawaii- 14
Alaska - ? (Only state I couldn't find results for...)
Oregon - 8
Montana - 4

Arkansas - 2
Colorado - 47
Kansas - 9
Texas - 149
Oklahoma - 11
New Mexico - 5
Wyoming - 0

Iowa - 15
Minnesta - 43
Missouri - 39
Nebraska - 9
North Dakota - 5
South Dakota - 4
Wisconsin - 25

Illinois - 77
Indiana - 23
Kentucky- 11
Michigan - 57
Ohio - 70

Connecticut - 19
Rhode Island - 5
Massachusetts - 49
New York - 61
New Hampshire - 3
Maine - 1
Vermont - 0

Delaware -1
Maryland - 37
New Jersey - 49
Pennsylvania - 99
Virginia - 38
West Virginia - 4

Alabama - 7
Florida - 98
Georgia - 43
Louisiana - 10
Mississippi - 3
North Carolina - 67
South Carolina - 19
Tennessee - 31
 
D

Deleted member 14190

Below is the number of athletes who scored a 34.000+ at their level 10 state championships (meaning it doesn't include petitions to regionals or event specialists):

Nor Cal - 54
So Cal - 86
Arizona - 52
Utah - 31
Nevada - 17

Washington - 28
Idaho - 5
Hawaii- 14
Alaska - ? (Only state I couldn't find results for...)
Oregon - 8
Montana - 4

Arkansas - 2
Colorado - 47
Kansas - 9
Texas - 149
Oklahoma - 11
New Mexico - 5
Wyoming - 0

Iowa - 15
Minnesta - 43
Missouri - 39
Nebraska - 9
North Dakota - 5
South Dakota - 4
Wisconsin - 25

Illinois - 77
Indiana - 23
Kentucky- 11
Michigan - 57
Ohio - 70

Connecticut - 19
Rhode Island - 5
Massachusetts - 49
New York - 61
New Hampshire - 3
Maine - 1
Vermont - 0

Delaware -1
Maryland - 37
New Jersey - 49
Pennsylvania - 99
Virginia - 38
West Virginia - 4

Alabama - 7
Florida - 98
Georgia - 43
Louisiana - 10
Mississippi - 3
North Carolina - 67
South Carolina - 19
Tennessee - 31
Impressive !!! Did you happen to write down total athletes ?
 

wandrewsjr

Coach
Proud Parent
Sep 4, 2009
2,489
Why for goodness sakes is Wyoming in region 3?
I don't know. Only thing I can think of is such a good chunk of their pop is in Cheyenne, right on the border with Colorado, so better to have them in the same Region as CO. And though they didn't have a 10 this year I think they had at least a couple 9's. Doesn't make sense that the Wyoming girls should have to go up against Texas. Even if we are going by the smaller states/regions have less choices in gyms and less opportunity to attract coaches, shouldn't the Wyoming girls have the same shot as the girls from South Dakota, North Dakota and Montana? Heck, Wyoming is even SMALLER than those states!
 
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Flyaway

Proud Parent
Jun 1, 2014
1,380
I don't know. Only thing I can think of is such a good chunk of their pop is in Cheyenne, right on the border with Colorado, so better to have them in the same Region as CO. And though they didn't have a 10 this year I think they had at least a couple 9's. Doesn't make sense that the Wyoming girls should have to go up against Texas. Even if we are going by the smaller states/regions have less choices in gyms and less opportunity to attract coaches, shouldn't the Wyoming girls have the same shot as the girls from South Dakota, North Dakota and Montana? Heck, Wyoming is even SMALLER than those states!

Exactly. It kinda sucks to be in a small, weak region, but I think that our gymnasts are better off then the girls in WY!
 
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