WAG Partial Judges ??

[flgymmom]

I have always heard from people at meets that judges are partial to bigger gyms.... Well, at this last meet I saw a perfect example that really made me wonder if this is true.

My DD vaulted... didn't do terrible, but didn't do wonderful, she scored 8.20. The girl that vaulted right behind her bounced on the spring board and didn't even touch the vault board. The 2nd vault she made it over but literally landed on her stomach. She scored 7.65 or something close to that. I was like WTF...

Do you think that this really happens ?

 

[flgymmom]

wow no thoughts on this.... maybe it is a touchy subject ?

 

[Gymmomto2]

I have suspected this myself. I saw a girl get a high 8.9 on beam w/ a fall, bobbles (several) & picked her leo & our girls were steadier, no falls etc w/mid 8. By the way, the routine is on YouTube so there is no exaggeration.

 

[gasrgoose]

I have always heard from people at meets that judges are partial to bigger gyms.... Well, at this last meet I saw a perfect example that really made me wonder if this is true.

Do you think that this really happens ?

No. But it makes a certain group of people feel better to believe it does exist. I think most judges are partial to better gymnasts. It could be that the "bigger gyms" are bigger because they consistently produce better gymnasts. Not all big gyms are the best, but in my area all but one of the "bigger gyms" are bigger because they run successful programs.

Another issue to remember is that judges are people and they will make mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes are in your favor, other times they are against you. If you remember at the 2012 Olympic,s Aly Raisman's coach had to protest to get her score corrected on beam. Olympic judging is more difficult that compulsories or lower level optional, but they also have the best/most qualified judges at the Olympics. But even with the highest level judges, there was a mistake.

My daughter isn't at one of the "bigger gyms". But I guess with her gyms success and the rapid pace it is currently growing it will soon be one of the bigger gyms. I'll let you know if I see an increase in her scores.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Well, if you were to ask our previous gym, the answer would be absolutely!! The color of you leo does make a difference! I can't really say for sure myself as they usually only went to smaller meets with smaller gyms. But, this year since we have switched gyms, I am looking forward to seeing my DD compete against the big gyms in the area. I will then be able to see first hand if this is true or not! I will let you know!!

 

[Natasha]

Judges are human, and I agree with gasrgoose, mistakes will happen, sometimes in your favor, sometimes not. At L7 my dd's teammate was given a 10.0 start value without a layout (should have started from at 9.5) Another time my dd recieved a higher vault score than her teammate (a higher score than my dd had ever received) even though her teammate's vault was clearly better. DD's coach even said he saw the judge look up just as dd hit the vault table...we think she was falling asleep lol. Obviously this judging discrepancy had nothing to do with the color of the leo, just a judging error.
Most of the time the judging seems very fair, but occasionally you will see errors. The best thing to do IMO is to let it go, and teach your dd to do the same, you will enjoy the sport much more.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

We are a smaller gym - haven't felt any bias yet.

Personally, I would be more alert & interested as a judge when a smaller team/rotation works its way through an event. Just for the variety alone. Those teams with an endless stream of L3's, all in the same leo & identical hair styles would make me want to poke my eyes out, if the repetitive compulsory music didn't kill me first.

But then I could never be a judge.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I have seen some doosies at meets. There is definitely some bias occasionally and mistakes, but I wouldn't say it's just for bigger gyms. What if the judge was fired or didn't get a job offer at one of the gyms? Will they give that gym maximum deductions? Hard to say.... What if that judge wants to be hired for their huge meet in a few months versus another gym which doesn't host any meets? What if they get bit in the ankle by a mosquito right as the girls hits the vault? What if they are buddies with one of the head coaches? Or used to be a gymnast on their team? It's well know that they tend to leave room early, so first to go from a team may get a little lower score than if they went last. Best to sip your coffee and cheer and try not to figure it out, and to hope for consistency at most meets. Especially this year with the new routines.

 

[MaryA]

I remember at level 6 states, floor judging seemed low across the board, except for a few teams that were getting mid-to-high 9's. By the time states rolls around, especially at the compulsory levels, you have seen the routines enough times that you get pretty good at predicting the scores and these floor scores just seemed "off" to me (some too low, some too high). But I chalked it up to those judges looking for something very specific that maybe those 1 or 2 teams emphasized and the other teams didn't. I would much rather think that that's the case rather than it being the color of their leotards. But it is all somewhat subjective which is just one more reason why it's important to emphasize goals that aren't tied to score or placement. If you focus on that too much, it will make you crazy. How many times, after a meet, do you hear parents or gymnasts say "If I/she hadn't had that one bobble on beam, I/she could have (placed/come in first/come in second/etc.)?" It is so easy to look at the woulda/coulda/shoulda in this sport. But you have to remember that there other girls who got a lower score than your DD at this meet who coulda/shoulda/woulda beat her if they hadn't had that fall/wobble/whatever. The meet is just one moment in time and then it's back to practice.

 

[Ingwe]

I am not sure that it really happens but I can see how it seems that way.

Several years ago when my Dd was a L5 we were at a meet. I was watching vault and happend to make a comment about the scoring. I basically said, I didn't get some of the scores.(for example) How Vault #1 with a stick scored lower then Vault # 2 with a hop..

A judge happened to be sitting in front of me as a spectator and was kind enough to walk me through what the judges were looking for. It really opened my eyes. As parents it's easy to sit in the stands and think a routine looks great when in reality we don't know all the little details that are being judged.

I have always told my Dd to just go out and do the best that she can do on that day. The score will be what it will be. You have no control over it nor do you have control over how anyone else scores. As long as you are proud of yourself then that's a great day.

 

[munchkin3]

I particularly hate it when a coach is judging a meet and they score their kids higher. I know it is not SUPPOSED to happen, but it does.

 

[kayjaybe]

I agree with Ingwe. A lot of parental complaining I hear about is because the parent doesn't know what they are talking about. The vault she mentioned is a perfect example. Until I learned what they were looking for, I would also be confused as to why someone with a hop was scoring higher than someone that "stuck it."

I do like to have an idea of what the judges are looking for, just to keep me from getting too frustrated, but I try to stop at that point because I want to enjoy watching the meet and not be picking & judging.

 

[wallflower]

I have seen that all judges are partial to clean, well done gymnastics. And sometimes that clean, well done gymnastics scores higher with a fall than other gymnasts without a fall. A fall is only .5. You can lose much more than that on other small errors that are less visible to a parent.

 

[HoldThePhone]

I haven't been through a meet season yet with my own kid competing, but through working meets last year and talking to other team parents, I haven't heard anyone complain about this. I haven't heard really any judging complaints except the following: 1) A kid on team said in front of the owner (who judges, but not at any of our meets) "My score should have been higher" to which the owner said "No, you scored exactly what you should have." I don't think any of our gyms kids have complained about scores since that, lol.
2) At a late season meet last year, maybe states, one particular level, the first session, was being scored very harsh on an event, not just our gym apparently, but all the kids. No one complained because it seemed across the board, but apparently several coaches complained, and the next day, scores reflected more truly to what they expected to see, so that made day 1 parents not all that happy, but it didn't really effect anything, so it didn't matter all that much.

 

[thefellowsmom]

The other things that parents don't generally realize is the text errors in compulsory routines. They can and do lose points for every time their hand or foot or head is in the wrong position. Even the best coaches sometimes have a hard time teaching every single one of these correctly.

My dd says that she always looked the wrong way in her floor routine last year and there is a deduction for taht and then if the judge doesn't like the look of their hands or the way they move their arms watch out.

Last year there was something my dd was doing on beam that no one could figure out but she was consistently docked for it.

Then you get judges that are super picky about particular things and overlook others. They want a perfect back extension roll or roundoff positioning or amplitude but will overlook a bent leg or an extra step.

It is definitely a subjective sport. I try to emphasize this to my dd and make sure she understands that she can't control the scores, only how much effort she puts in and that it all starts at practice.

I find that having a baseline of understanding of the requirements and deductions keeps me from trying to figure it out too much for myself or say things to her that I shouldn't. Then the rest of it is just stuff you have no control over so can't worry about that.

My mind never shuts off. I would be a nightmare if I didn't take the time to understand what was going on. But, her gymnastics is between her and her coach and the judge. Having a little bit of info helps me keep my mouth shut when I should. Ignorance is not always bliss.

 

[gralch1]

I think most judges try to be unbiased, however, they are human and mistakes will be made.
We tell our gymnasts and parents to only worry about what they can control, like attitude, doing the best that they can and sportmanship. If you do an awesome routine you will be rewarded. Do not worry about things they cannot control, like equipment, venue or rotation order.

 

[SignHere]

Thefellowsmom, I definitely agree with you! I could have written your post! My DD's first year in Level 4, I just didn't get it, and I couldn't understand why my DD was scoring less than a routine that looked exactly the same. But, then I learned a little about how the judges actually score the routines. Vault, for example, is incredibly complex, and is judged on much more than if they take a step on landing!
So, if a gymmie is piked on first flight, support phase, and second flight, she can lose up to 0.5 for each phase. That's 1.5 total.
A very large step on landing is 0.2 points.

 

[htimcj]

I know this sounds crazy but I bought the code of points for the optionals and read through it. It really made me understand just how all of the different deductions can add up which made watching the routines make more sense to me. It was a real eye opener. I don't discuss scores with DD other than to point out a new high and focus and just doing better each time.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Nt

I know this sounds crazy but I bought the code of points for the optionals and read through it. It really made me understand just how all of the different deductions can add up which made watching the routines make more sense to me. It was a real eye opener. I don't discuss scores with DD other than to point out a new high and focus and just doing better each time.

Not so crazy

 

[MaryA]

I know this sounds crazy but I bought the code of points for the optionals and read through it. It really made me understand just how all of the different deductions can add up which made watching the routines make more sense to me. It was a real eye opener. I don't discuss scores with DD other than to point out a new high and focus and just doing better each time.

Was it expensive? I bought what was essentially a "parents guide to the code of points" that dunno recommended once upon a time and then promptly lost it. I wish I remembered what it was called and where I got it. I wonder if they've updated it yet to reflect this years' changes.