"Perfect" Age/ Level Progression

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There has been a lot of discussion lately about very young gymnasts at very high levels, often before they are really ready. So my question is, given that the obvious things (skills, form, maturity, etc.) are in place, what is the "perfect" progression? I have heard that a gymnast wanting NCAA needs to be a solid level 10 by her sophomore year because that's when the college coaches start really watching and looking for their next recruits. And I've heard that elite gymnasts need to be experienced elites before they are seniors (age 16) if they want to make the national teams and get assigned to international competitions. So they should probably make elite by say 14 or 15. And it can often take a year or two after level 10 to qualify as an elite gymnast. So, what age is the ideal age for each level for a gymnast wanting NCAA and/or elite? If you were to plan the perfect progression (that fits in with the current system), what would it be? What age should she start? How quickly should she move through the levels? How old should she be when she reaches level 10? When she qualifies to elite? If you were the coach, how would you progress your talented gymnast?

I'm also confused by your post. I looked at your Youtube channel and you have an 8 year old training L8? You just completely argued against this, but still, your daugter I'm assuming, is L8 and 8? Doesnt make sense to me.

Oh, but I love watching her, she is so great and has great form once she masters it for the most part!
 
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I guess I didn't make myself clear. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation and setting goals for an elite-driven gymnast. I'm not asking for personal stories or "the reality is" posts. Don't any of you play fantasy football? Shawn Johnson's coach asked her at 6 or 7 years old how far she wanted to go in this sport and then he coached her accordingly. Be the coach and coach your gymnast to the Olympics and college. Assume that everything fell into place, she was never injured, got all her skills in a timely manner, etc. How would you progress her?
Ok now...I think we are ALL losing sight of the OP! This is suppose to be a "hypothetical" gymnast remember!;)
 
I'm also confused by your post. I looked at your Youtube channel and you have an 8 year old training L8? You just completely argued against this, but still, your daugter I'm assuming, is L8 and 8? Doesnt make sense to me.

Oh, but I love watching her, she is so great and has great form once she masters it for the most part!

Thanks. But I didn't argue against this. I stated what I think would be ideal in a perfect world. But we all know this isn't a perfect world and problems and situations do arise. And, not that it makes any difference but she is almost nine. ;)
 
Whoa, where did the left turn come from?? How is Shawn "pushing" her daughter exactly? How presumtious can you be to assume that Shawn is pushing, rather than her daughter and coach? I've read her blog/watched her youtube and I never got the feeling Boo is being "pushed". Again, what the heck?

MdGymMom01 What was the point of those last two posts, other than to stir the pot?
 
Okay, if I were a coach, here's what I would try to do:

age 7- level 5
age 8- level 6
age 9- level 7
age 10- level 8
age 11- level 9
age 12- Level 10

Hi Shawn-

This is the age/level path my daughter has taken so far. This path has worked fine for her. I would be curious to know from coaches who have "been there" whether it is truly beneficial to go through the lower levels more quickly to "get ahead".
 
Honestly, it probably just depends. In some gyms that might mean the kid can be put in a more appropriate training group more easily. In others it might isolate them and cause problems. Ultimately if you're just trying to do L10/NCAA, I wouldn't even start them until they're 7ish (I understand most kids are 6 starting first grade and turn 7, but that's basically what I mean). And I probably wouldn't have them skip levels. There's just no point, unless it's truly too easy. Overuse injuries are a big issue. Not competing at the highest level possible doesn't mean they can't train the skills - I have kids doing isolated skills and drills way about their true level. But it's a lot less pressure to get every skill and connection and do high reps of the big pounding skills.

It would be an oversight, I think, to expect they can only do the skills they're ready for if they compete that level. Before I ever competed, I had RO BHS BT on floor, front tucks, BWO/working BHS on beam, kips on bars, standing aerial - well above the level of the average L4. But I also didn't do L4 until I was 11 because my parents didn't want me to compete really (it came at significant sacrifice, so that's understandable), but that didn't make me quit gymnastics. In the end I probably could have done anything I wanted with gymnastics (in terms of the JO/NCAA track I was on - elite just wasn't an option where I was). Physically I'm pretty talented, and in terms of injuries, I'm almost a miracle. I'm 21 and I still have virtually no pain, even doing things on relatively hard surfaces. That's almost unheard of. I have friends who have gone through multiple surgeries and can't get up and walk in the morning without pain.

So I look good on paper, but I hate competing and it's honestly so stressful for me I can't even explain my life to you. At the lower levels I was fine, but later on it just wasn't working out. So I stopped competing after high school. Sometimes I wonder if I should have pushed it but ultimately I'm better off. So you just can't predict it in my opinion...we talked about this in another thread with developing other psychological problems (of which I am no exception) that are sadly maybe more common than parents of young girls think. Physical talent and easy ride through the lower levels doesn't mean much for success at the top. Parents might want to check out the book "Reviving Ophelia."
 
You're welcome. :D The thread didn't go where I thought but I'm loving the information!

Me too - I am loving the info about basics and form. I feel it justifies my obsession with them. phew. I'm not a nutter after all. lol:D
 
I get the impression the Oz elite stream system agrees with GT's emphasis on the lower levels. Ie: There is no international level 4, 7, or 9. The system seems designed to speed progression through the higher levels.

PS: Shawn, I love your blog and think you're very brave to share it. But unless you have hypnotic powers I don't know about :rolleyes:, I can only assume Boo's coach is the one who is orchestrating her progression (training and competing) through the levels - not you.

PPS: I thought the hypothetical question was a worthwhile one. Whilst I appreciate that coaches teach gymnasts lessons well beyond gymnastics ... at the end of the day - gymnastics is in fact what they are employed to teach, and some of us who have no background in coaching would value hearing about what their ideal scenarios (training plans) might be for their athletes. And quite frankly I hope long term training plans are a subject of regular focus and review.
 
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Thank you sooooo much for this! This makes me feel much better about DD's training. While she is already training L8, these are exactly the skills that she is working on perfecting. It's nice to know she's on the right track working the important stuff.

Can I ask you something? Does your gym have any experience with elites? or "at least" top L10s?

No judgement intended, just wondering. Her progress definitely doesn't look like the typical "focus on basics" approach for elites. However, I don't want to just assume that they might not have their own plan which might very well work out. So I figured I'd just ask.
 
I also put that because in reality there are very few ideals, advancing faster would allow time for issues later, should they arise.

Yes I can see the point of this but as GT says the time spent on basics in L5-7 is so important it should not be rushed. I think you will spend double the amount of time later correcting the rubbish roundoff, the horrid cast handstand or the abominable splits later. Or you will have a gymnast with less than pretty skills. I think better preparation of body and skills earlier will prevent injury later. Because the body is stronger and technically great skills should lead to less injury. Chucking skills leads to injury. Also I have been told in the past that if you learn a skill correctly then when a gymnast goes through puberty it is easier to maintain the skill. If skills are done using their brute strength to weight ration then it is very difficult to regain after puberty. Maybe not rushing will reduce burnout. Boredom might be a factor there though. Some kids just love the challenge of new skills and moving up all the time. Although I would think 3 or 4 years at level 10 would be pretty boring too.

But obviously there can be unforeseen problems which can disrupt progress like illness, family changes, schooling, BOYS! and (gasp) wanting to do something else instead. :eek:

My fantasy gymnast (Olga of course) will not fall prey to any of this and will sail through with impeccable form and beautiful artistry.
 
Can I ask you something? Does your gym have any experience with elites? or "at least" top L10s?

No judgement intended, just wondering. Her progress definitely doesn't look like the typical "focus on basics" approach for elites. However, I don't want to just assume that they might not have their own plan which might very well work out. So I figured I'd just ask.

Unfortunately, quite a few coaches (and gyms) have had a hand in her progression to date. And yes, they have all had experience at least through L10, and several with elite. I think hers has been a more winding road than normal but that can't be helped. I have not always agreed with what's been done with her and I wish things had been more consistent but at this point, it is what it is. Her coach now is wonderful with her and really knows what she's doing. I am hoping that she can fix what needs fixing while still progressing at a rate appropriate for Boo's age and goals.
 
Just want to say THANK YOU to all the coaches that have responded... especially Geoffrey T. It is so helpful, even for us with gymnasts not on the elite path, to get a picture of the expectations for progression. Since there is no book as a guide, as parents and gymmies, sometimes the path looks pretty confusing. Makes me feel like my dd is in the right place, since her coaches are really all about form. This summer they really went back to basics with her on her tumbling... fixed her round-off and backhandspring. Within one month she was able to get her half and do much more complicated tumbling passes. Several weeks ago she started doing Tsuks by herself and is able to do a full on the tumble track. All of this, I do not think would have been possible had they not gone back to the basics with her and fixed her form. Her confidence has really improved a lot!
 
ages at different levels

Everyone has their own opinions at what ages the gymnast should be at different levels. My daughter is an elite/hopes at 12. She has been at that level for 2 seasons. She did level 4 for two years at ages 6 and 7. She has progressed through every level without skipping a level. I feel strongly thats why she is where she is . I have witness many gymnast my daughter's age that skipped level 6 and some even level 5. I would think about 85% to 90% of those kids have quit the sport before turning 12. There is no rush to get to elite, just let your daughter go level by level and if she is really good, she will get to elite.. Even if she just does level 10, that is a great feat too. Level 10's will get college scholarships too. Every child has her own time frame and they must move on at their own speed in this sport.
 
Everyone has their own opinions at what ages the gymnast should be at different levels. My daughter is an elite/hopes at 12. She has been at that level for 2 seasons. She did level 4 for two years at ages 6 and 7. She has progressed through every level without skipping a level. I feel strongly thats why she is where she is . I have witness many gymnast my daughter's age that skipped level 6 and some even level 5. I would think about 85% to 90% of those kids have quit the sport before turning 12. There is no rush to get to elite, just let your daughter go level by level and if she is really good, she will get to elite.. Even if she just does level 10, that is a great feat too. Level 10's will get college scholarships too. Every child has her own time frame and they must move on at their own speed in this sport.

Just curious, she did more than one season in one year? Maybe I am misunderstanding but when you say she has been at that level for 2 years, you mean Elite/Hopes? If thats the case then she was there at 10 right?
 

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