Please help me understand

[littlegirlsdream]

My daughter is being moved to level six. She has never been a high all around scorer and every year going into comp season, her bar skills seem to be her weakest area. Yet every year she moves up. Head coach talked to me and told me that they want her in optional levels vs spending extra time in compulsory levels. They said her strengths are better suited for optionals and while her timing isnt exactly right for her current level it actually is right for the "bigger skills". I don't get this. I read here that perfecting these lower levels is very important and it isn't smart to move up quickly. I was hoping someone could explain this in a way I could understand. I do trust her coaches but just lack insight into the world of gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

My daughter is being moved to level six. She has never been a high all around scorer and every year going into comp season, her bar skills seem to be her weakest area. Yet every year she moves up. Head coach talked to me and told me that they want her in optional levels vs spending extra time in compulsory levels. They said her strengths are better suited for optionals and while her timing isnt exactly right for her current level it actually is right for the "bigger skills". I don't get this. I read here that perfecting these lower levels is very important and it isn't smart to move up quickly. I was hoping someone could explain this in a way I could understand. I do trust her coaches but just lack insight into the world of gymnastics.

in bold is important. but sometimes, just sometimes, and especially if it's an older child (12/13/) it just doesn't serve a purpose to keep "beating the dead horse". usually coaches make good decisions about what's best long term for the child so that they don't become bored to death. remember...for the gymnast...they know where their 'station' in life is when it has to do with their gymnastics. they love it no matter what. some kids NEVER complain. they just don't have the temerity to come right out and state "you know what coach, what i'm doing here is like watching paint dry".

 

[littlegirlsdream]

Thanks, they did say they felt bordem would become a problem. You are right daughter would never say she was bored. Here is the weird part, she is only seven.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

it's possible that they can already 'see' that she won't be a good compulsory gymnast. we can tell. so what they're doing is a consistent coaching practice. see how she does and if you get positive feedback from your daughter.

 

[MaryA]

Some gyms are just this way... push them through compulsaries and don't worry about perfecting stuff till they hit optionals. I don't know if it's better or worse... it just is. We were at level 5 sectionals with a team that has a very good repuation at the upper levels, and they had about the same percentage of girls qualify for States as our YMCA team did (their girls were all very young and very tiny). I'm sure all of those girls moved up to level 6 this year... at least all of the ones who didn't burn out from practicing 20 hours a week.

I guess my concern with pushing them through would be less about scores and more about safety. I would think (and I certainly don't claim to be an expert) that part of "perfecting" a skill would involve building the muscles and timing and whatever else goes into that skill, so that the foundation is there for the harder skill that builds on that skill (baby giants to giants, for example). And that if that foundation isn't there, is injury more likely when training the harder skill? Of course, the mobility scores require at least a certain degree of competancy. Is it enough? I don't know. Are the little ones less likely to sustain serious injury because they're so light and bendy? Again, no idea. I will be interested to read the opinions of those "in the know" who always have interesting opinions on subjects like this. Dunno?

 

[MaryA]

it's possible that they can already 'see' that she won't be a good compulsory gymnast. we can tell. so what they're doing is a consistent coaching practice. see how she does and if you get positive feedback from your daughter.

Oops... you and I were posting at the same time. Thanks!

 

[Billy]

Sometimes, too, coaches/gyms would rather spend time perfecting skills rather than perfecting compulsory routines.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

the most important issue IS safety as MaryA posted. and all things being equal (and of course i have learned here that things are just not so in some programs) if coaches follow a sequential path and not work above the child's ability you will consistently see kids getting on in the sport safely and performing good gymnastics.

and yes, Shawn. if coaches know what they're doing, why train/try to get 9.8's at level 6 when we all know most judges wouldn't know a 9.6 if it ran right in to them. LOL

 

[katvernay]

dunno, per usual, gives excellent advice. I won't beat a dead horse here; but just wanted to say that there are some gymnasts who don't do well as compulsories, then really start to shine once they get to optionals (I was one of those). A girl I competed against/cousin of a teammate never got a 9 as a compulsory...she's on the UPenn team now. Being a good compulsory gymnast doesn't mean much, while being a good optional means a lot more. (Assuming she can do everything safely.)

 

[littlegirlsdream]

I am not at all worried about her safety, her gym seems to have a good handle on safe practices . They do require correct form and technique on skills. They say controlling her power and flexibility are her main issues. I can tell you many parents at her gym ask the question why she will move up when their daughters scored higher. I don't really know, but her coaches do. I was guessing either other coaches here would also understand or at least I was hoping they would so I could get more insight. I was happy to hear it is a consistent practice.

 

[gymgal]

They say controlling her power and flexibility are her main issues.

Sounds like the coaches want to play to her strengths and are not getting hung up on perfecting routines where she has difficulty controlling her moves. Maybe they feel that she will not improve much more at that level due to the specific difficulties she has. You would think flexibility is a good thing but sometimes it works against you especially if you don't have the specific strength to control the flexibility. Same with power - too much of it without the ability to control can lead to problems especially in the lower levels. Some of dd's coaches throughout the years have commented that she has had similar difficulties. They say the way she does some skills makes it harder for her to do them with perfection but will lend to easier transition to higher level skills later. I have asked about correcting the skills now but they prefer to not "fix" it since they feel her way of doing it will benefit her later on in upper level skills. This sometimes causes deductions but they say it's not worth fixing, because we are looking long term. They have tried to explain the skills to me, but I don't even pretend to understand it. I just trust them. DD also says it is really hard for her to control her power on bars (others have this problem on tumbling too). Obviously, learning control is an important part of gymnastics but in the same light, that extra power she can't control now (causing over rotations, extra steps, etc) or the extra flexibility (that makes her more floppy) will help her later on with the bigger skills.

your dd''s coaches may see this potential and feel it is better for her not to waste another year repeating a level when they feel she will not improve in perfecting those routines, as long as her skills are coming along. When she reaches 7-10, they can then tailor her routines to highlight her strengths.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Sometimes, too, coaches/gyms would rather spend time perfecting skills rather than perfecting compulsory routines.

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This. Also, I agree that some gymnasts are just not ever going to get good scores in compulsories. If you are satisfied that your daughter will safely be able to perform the skills in the level 6 routines, then trust her coaches.

 

[gymalex]

Hmm. Well, if your gym is a good gym with successful level 10s/Elites and you trust the coaches, then I'd go with the flow.
However, I read through other people's posts about why it makes sense to skip or brush through compulsories, and I have to disagree. I think that poor skill mastery in compulsories (especially on bars) will not bode well for a successful optional career. Especially at 7 years old. If you can't do the level 6 bar routine well, you really have no business moving up to optionals. It's not like the L4 routine where you'll never need a stride circle or a front hip again....a L6 bar routine has a lot of really important tricks. Good casts, clear hips, making connections...things that are imperative to have mastered in optionals. Same with the other events. At my gym we didn't skip compulsories no matter how talented the kid. We'd skip from level 8 or 9 to elite when we had the right kid, but we'd never skip compulsories. I could see moving a kid up to optionals if she was 12 or 13 just to keep her interested and let her have more grown-up routines, but a 7 year old SHOULD be in compulsories and mastering the basics.
In addition to skill level, I'm not sure how I understand taking a 7 year old who is struggling with a long hang pull over and teaching her giants would help with her confidence.
The coaching strategy doesn't make much sense to me, but then again I do not know your daughter or gym! You asked for opinions, though, and so here is mine.
Good luck to you!

 

[littlegirlsdream]

I did ask for opinions and I appreciate all sides and insight to this issue. The gym she attends is very succesfull at optional levels. I do worry that what you are saying will be how this plays out but I hope not. She isnt skipping a level, I couldnt tell if thats what you thought, she just isnt repeating 5 so she will be a level six. As a level 4 and 5 she always had about 34AA with beam being high 9s consistantly. I can see what you are saying completely. I asked if it was possible for her to do 5 again the answer was basically no it wont benifit her. She can clear hip but kipping after it is problematic at this point, completely connecting is a problem you can see her thinking. I guess she has three and a half months to get better before her first meet so I will keep my fingers crossed. I appreciate everyone's insight, it is helpful so no matter what your thoughts are, please continue to share.

 

[gymgal]

to OP: did you say that that others on her team are repeating 5? If so, then I would probably push the coaches for a little more info as to why repeating 5 wouldn't benefit her. If it were me, I would want more details - not because I don't trust the HC but because I would want to understand it better. Is it because they don't think her scores would improve much due to the specific problems she is having? Do they just feel getting her to optionals quicker is the best route? Why isn't this the case with her teammates?

 

[CamSeawind]

The gymnast that was never a high all-around scorer in compulsories and moved though them quickly, that was me. I competed a season level 4, two meets of level 5 to qualify out, and then a season level 6. Now I'm training level 9 as a 15 year-old, and my scores in the all-around have improved every season. As a compulsory, my coach told me I would be a better optional, she was right. Coaches know where a gymnast will perform better as they are around them during their training, I would trust your daughter's coach's judgement.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

Gymgal, I did ask and the reasoning was basically she did nt need to. They dont emphisize achieving high scores as compulsary level gymnasts they care that they learn in a way that lends itself to bigger skills. For example, right now she often over rotates her front tucks but they would rather see that level of aggressiveness in skills and then learn to perfect later. I did post because admittedly I dont entirely understand these concepts and I worry that she could lose confidnce in herself. I also wanted to see if other gyms, coaches had experienced this and if so can she become a better optional gymnast. . Yes, to answer your other question, others are repeating level five but I figure the why to that isnt my buisness but I assure you I will be asked why my daughter got to move, sigh.

 

[gymgal]

. They dont emphisize achieving high scores as compulsary level gymnasts they care that they learn in a way that lends itself to bigger skills. For example, right now she often over rotates her front tucks but they would rather see that level of aggressiveness in skills and then learn to perfect later. I did post because admittedly I dont entirely understand these concepts

this makes a lot of sense to me and pretty much how dd's coaches have explained it to me for some of her skills. I know many people here feel that you must "perfect" these lower skills before moving forward but I think it really depends on what your goals are and also what the errors are - can they not do the skill or do they have too much power and not enough control? These are two very different problems. Sounds like the coaches have really thought about this for you dd's situation. It's not like they push everyone through like this. Let her try it and keep a close eye on her. You can always bring her down to level 5 before the season starts.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I see no reason for her to repeat a level if she has the skills for the next level. A lot of deductions in the compulsaries are for minor details that do not lend themselves to the optional levels anyway. At least this is how is has been explained to me. Plus, even for a 7 year old, doing the same routines for another season might just bore her to death!!

 

[gymalex]

oooh, I misunderstood. I thought they wanted to move her from a tough L5 season to training L7. Moving up to L6 makes more sense, although it's a big jump from L5-L6 (especially on that bar routine). However, if your gym has lots of successful optionals kids, then your coaches probably know what they're doing. I think you should go with it and just be as supportive as you can be. The other parents questioning the coaching decision can weigh on your confidence AND your daughter's. There's probably a bit of jealousy in those comments, so take them with a grain of salt. I think your response has been perfect- just that you're just doing what has been asked of you and you trust your coaches to make the right decision for your daughter. That should be your go-to line to help avoid aggressive and competitive parents. Keep an eye on your daughter's self-esteem and confidence, and good luck!!!