MAG Pommel Routine

[Deleted member 10727]

My son had a competition this last weekend, and the first event they went on was rings. He did OK at rings. Not his best, but decent enough to win 1st place. Another boy on his team, who is amazing, told my son that he should have gotten a better score than my son and gave him all of the reasons why. This kid has been really hard on my son (same age and level) since we moved to this new gym. I noticed my son looked completely shaken up after rings, but didn't realize why. And the rest of the meet was pretty much all downhill from there. My kid couldn't control his legs. He rushed through his floor routine like it was a race. His pommel routine, which has been scoring in the 11s was given an 8.6 at this meet! My son has consistently beaten this other boy in scores on pommel horse, and this boy is a well known pommel horse champion. I do not know what happened to my kid's confidence, but pommel horse was the last event, and to me he looks like he had almost given up by then. However, with that said, I was shocked by the score of 8.6, and my son was really upset by his AA. We are working on his thought processes regarding scores, but the last thing I want is for my son to begin to do poorly because some other kid has, in my opinion, purposely shaken my son's confidence.

What happened here? He almost fell off during his Russian, but he stayed on. Did it count as a fall? Did he miss a circle?

 

[profmom]

I'm no expert but it looks like his hand placements may have caused his Stockli A (bonus) to turn into an extra czechkehre (extra element deduction), which is a killer. DS's coach is always on the boys about that one to be sure there can be no doubt.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Hmmn. I'm not sure what that is, but I am not seeing it.

 

[profmom]

Have you asked his coach? DS's coach is usually happy to explain things that don't make sense to us or tell us if they also don't make sense to him.

If you look up some full bonus routines with high scores on Youtube, you should see some boys who are clearly distinguishing the two elements with their hand placements. It's the circles before the spindle flairs.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

The gym is not really set up where I can approach the coach so easily, and I'm hesitant to do it for some reason. I'm not sure why.

I just compared his routine here with one he did where he got an 11.3. He is obviously much more sloppy here, but I don't see the stockli A difference. However, when I first watched, I thought he missed a circle so I am seeing something I can't quite grasp yet. Maybe?

 

[Deleted member 10727]

His old coach was at the meet and watched the routine since his team was done competing. My kid was the last to compete that day. He told me they deducted so much because of rhythm. I have no idea what he is talking about as far as a huge deduction. I saw kids who could barely turn circles, had no bonuses, and they scored close to my son's score.

What I see: His legs are coming together on the mount in and he hopped on his dismount. He also lost his hand placement on the last circle and nearly fell. Plus he is slightly piked on every circle. Even his flairs are choppy to me. But still... he wants to know why.

 

[sce]

My son sees an extra step with his hand on the Moore near the beginning. Definitely some deductions at the end, not sure if it was a fall. He lost the stick bonus on both parts as well. I'd be interested to know his start value vs his score.

 

[sce]

The gym is not really set up where I can approach the coach so easily, and I'm hesitant to do it for some reason. I'm not sure why.

Has he asked his coach? I know my ds' coach will tell them what he thinks their deductions are.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

My son watched it and said he put an extra hand down plus he says he missed a circle before the stockli A?

 

[krc]

The PH set is good. Only problem is on the dismount. On the MR however, definitely no credit on the stockli plus extra circle deductions. Also it is out of order - the moore comes first followed by the stockli, which could result in an added part deduction. So that would be an 11.0 start. Let's say 1.0 on the stockli, at least .5 on the russian. .3 on the PH dismount and .1 on the MR. I'd also take .3 on the circles after the spindle for lack of extension. With that, I don't think that an 8.6 is out of reason. Fix the stockli - moore sequence and he'll be in the mid to high 10's which is VERY good for a L6. I took a peek at the MWI scores and noticed that the top score was 10.4, so the judge wasn't giving any scores out.
The kids are always going to make simple mistakes that create text errors and end up producing large deductions. Try to separate that error from the quality of the performance overall, which honestly wasn't that bad. If I was his coach, I'd be happy with that routine. Just practice the sequence so he doesn't repeat the error. (Especially at States or Regionals )

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Thank you. That helps a lot. He has always had issues with order and counting. As a level 4, he would do like 8 swings on the HB because swinging was fun, I guess? (He was 6.) I'll let him know what you said and he should understand it better than I.

 

[curlymop]

Thank you. That helps a lot. He has always had issues with order and counting. As a level 4, he would do like 8 swings on the HB because swinging was fun, I guess? (He was 6.) I'll let him know what you said and he should understand it better than I.

I'm glad mine isn't the only one who does that. Last year at L4 he kept leaving out a swing. I think he was nervous and trying to get it over with. At states, his swings looked great, and I couldn't figure out why his score was so low until I watched the video and counted the swings. I think leaving one out is a whole point, since one full swing is a numbered part at L4. This year as a 7yo L5, he's adding extra swings at the beginning. I think he's focusing so much on trying to keep his legs together in the half turn and trying to get more height before the kip (or kip attempt in his case).

I think your son's routine looks great, btw. I know nothing about the L6 routines, but I think his form looks great. I really hope you guys can get the issues sorted out with the other boy.

 

[gracyomalley]

My youngest just turned 10. This is the first year that he actually thinks about his form, does or doesn't do bonuses based upon warm up, gets them in the right order consistently, etc. He does many more elements on pommel in practice (he's a new Level 6 also, and generally scoring 9s on pommel - which for him I feel is excellent) than in meets based upon his assessment of his form...(the coach does weigh in, for sure, but is fairly laid back about the kids trying things that may not be perfect but are safe - until state/regionals, that is).

My older boy does the bare minimum on pommel usually - and is happy not to fall! However, he already has most of a decent L8 routine with a press, etc planned, where he can do what he's good at and move on to other events! Your DSs form is great for his age - the rest will come!

 

[munchkin3]

Still looks awesome!!!!

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Oh my gosh, wow. My kid has no idea, all of the sudden, the difference between a Moore and a Stockli. He says they both look the same to him. How the heck was he scoring 11s?

 

[Deleted member 10727]

Does this one have the right order? I am a little irritated that I don't see the difference between the Moor and the Stockli. Usually I am good at seeing things like this. I'm irritated at myself, not my kid, just to be clear.

 

[profmom]

Your son should ask his coach to go over it with him. I can't explain the hand placement differences, but it's very clear to me when I watch our boys who have that bonus that it's different for the Stockli A. The coach is the best person to explain this to him. Ours has delivered endless dissertations to the boys on the subject. But he is also the wise old dog who asks the rings judges in advance what the boys have to do in order to be awarded the inlocate bonus -- and adjusts routines accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 10727]

My son says Moor and Stockli are just opposite hands. Haha. My son is so incredibly shy. Asking his coach that would feel like he was asking a basic addition problem, to him. I don't know. I'll let him figure it out, I guess.

 

[sce]

Oh my gosh, wow. My kid has no idea, all of the sudden, the difference between a Moore and a Stockli. He says they both look the same to him. How the heck was he scoring 11s?

My ds says that they are almost the same. It is tricky. He's explained it to me and I don't understand the difference. Your ds needs to talk to his coach, ask the coach to help him get them fixed.

 

[skschlag]

D knows the difference but to me it is all the same. He said one goes in front, and one goes behind. THat is probably a poor explanation but makes sense to him.