Protocol for when you fall...level 4

[Petunia]

We just had a meet today, her second meet, level 4, just turned seven.

She fell off the bars on her shoot through (sp?) all of a sudden.
So this is what happened:

She gets on and completely forgets to do her front hip circle (has never happend before)! She goes on to do her shoot through and realizes...ack..something is off, hits her foot on the shoot through...slips off the bars.

I had been told my another mom on our team that when her daughter fell off the bars once, she kept getting back on and trying the SAME skill and kept missing..so each time she missed she would get points off as opposed to her just SKIPPING over the skill and going on with the routine...I assume that's LESS points taken off?

So I mentioned this to my daughter a while back. So she says those words all of a sudden came back to her at that moment ...SOOO...

She gets back on the bar.....does her FRONT HIP CIRCLE (the one she skipped on the first try)...SKIPS OVER THE SHOOT THROUGH (bc that's what she already missed the first try) and windmill...and does her dismount. LOL
She gets a 6.0...aaah! hahaha

I think I totally messed my child up!

We need to ask her coach...but I'm curious if anyone can answer this question for me on here. What should she have done?
Should she have gotten back on and started over? What if she had missed the shoot through again for whatever reason?

Remember this is a just turned seven year old that sometimes lives on another planet. How can I explain it?

 

[Megley]

I am not at all sure that I have the right answer here, but I'll take a shot. First, I think that as soon as she fell the coach should have gone over to her and told her what to do next. I think it's okay for the coach to do that, particularly with a seven year old at L4. I have seen our coaches immediately go over when a child falls and assist her to get back on the bar to continue the routine.

In this case, I think she was right to start again from the front hip circle so as to get credit for it but she should probably have then continued on to do the rest of the routine as usual so as to not also miss the shoot through and mill circle. If she missed the shoot through a second time, either by falling forward or back, the coach should have gotten her back up on the bar in the right position to do the mill circle and then continue with the rest of the routine. Not to say that after two falls, her score would have been particularly terrific but at least she would have gotten in all the skills. Hopefully, this is something they will discuss with the girls in practice so as to avoid future confusion. Lucky for my dd, she never fell during a L4 bar routine or forgot anything so she never had to deal with it.

Meg

 

[gymkat]

I think this makes a good case for parents not coaching their kids at home. Leave it up to the coach to address this issue with your daughter, although it might be good to remind the coach to have this conversation.

Once you forget a skill and complete the next element, you can't go back and get credit for skills that you missed, so she should not have tried to repeat the FHC. A 6.0 sounds like a good score for technically not doing a FHC; falling and hitting the bar on a shoot through (if she fell after getting her leg through, then she probably got full credit for the skill-- if not, you're looking at additional deductions for an incomplete element), and no mill circle if the skills that she did were clean.

 

[Megley]

Aha, well there you go. A good reason I should not be answering these questions! I did not know that you couldn't go back and start over. So I guess the answer was for her to get back on the bar and complete the mill circle and then dismount.

 

[gym law mom]

Tell her if she falls, she is allowed to talk with her coach and has 30 seconds to get back up on the apparatus. Most coaches will help the gymnast with what skill they need to either skip or repeat.

 

[Petunia]

Interesting...
OK so let's say she's on the beam...and falls when landing from a handstand...does she get back on and try the handstand AGAIN to land it OR does she just pick up where she would after landing from the handstand?

SO let's see if I got this right. Let's say she gets up on the bars, DOES do her front hip circle and misses it. She gets back on and at that point should try it AGAIN?
BUT if she forgets her front hip circle and has already TRIED THE SHOOT THROUGH and FALLS...there's no point in doing the front hip circle now.
Should she just then try the shoot through again at that point?

I promise I won't even try to explain it to her but I am curious.

 

[gymkat]

Well, it depends how she falls from a HS. If she's at the end of the beam and totally kicks past a HS and does something resembling a FHS off the end, yes, repeat. If she gets her feet on and falls off while standing up, do not repeat.

If she attempts a FHC and misses it, she should not repeat it (with a few exceptions, of course, but I'm talking normal, almost-made-it falls). If she fell on her shoot through and got her leg through, she does not need to repeat it (but she does have to do a mill circle!). If she smacked her foot on the bar and fell off backwards without getting her leg through the bar, she should probably repeat it, but only if she makes it most of the time cleanly.

ETA: I forgot that she omitted the cut back after the mill circle, too. Hmm. I'm not sure how the judges evaluated the routine.

 

[canadiangymmom]

I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted to thank you for bringing this up. It's all new to me, and interesting to read.

I wonder if it's the same in Canada? Bog??

 

[CoachGoofy]

I tell my girls if they fall on bars or beam to take a deep breath, count to 10, and then get back up and move on to the next skill. They all know that the counting to 10 is mostly to compose themselves, and partly to give me time to come give them other instructions if needed.

 

[bogwoppit]

I don't have any advice for you, I just wanted to thank you for bringing this up. It's all new to me, and interesting to read.

I wonder if it's the same in Canada? Bog??

Exactly the same in Canada. If you complete the skill and then fall do NOT repeat the skill just carry on. If you fall in the middle of the skill redo it if you know you can get it.

The only difference here is if a gymnast forgets a skill they can add it in later as we do not have compulsory routines and therefore the order of the skills does not matter. Once Oldest forgot to do her full turn on the beam, the coach gave her the hand signal and she stuck it in before her dismount. No deduction at all.

Though I have to agree with Gymkat, that unless you know all the rules concerning your childs level you really shouldn't be having this chat with the gymnast, it is confusing and every coach has their own way of dealing with this. Too much info just confuses the child.

 

[bogwoppit]

Just to add I think that 6 is a great score considering the hiccups she had during it. If you have a video I am sure Gymkat could give you a judges view of the routine.

 

[gymnut1]

Once Oldest forgot to do her full turn on the beam, the coach gave her the hand signal and she stuck it in before her dismount. No deduction at all.

.

Interesting. In the UK a hand signal from a coach would be deducted as coaching which is not allowed during a routine - FIG rules. Im surprised you dont have that in Canada. I know a friend got a deduction when her coach clapped her landing a move on beam that she had been struggling with as she was seen to be communicating how pleased she was with her. That is why most coaches stand with their arms crossed so they cant do it without thinking. LOL

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

^^^

Not if the judges don't see . It is better to take the deduction for signaling than omission deductions in most cases. Another sneaky way is to have the team mates call out, this is often not covered by the rules. From sitting in the judges seat I am often willing a gymnast to do a forgotten skill/repeat a skill/series in my mind.

 

[bogwoppit]

Oh we do have FIG rules for sure, but as Pinapple Lump said the coach did it in a way that DD knew and the judge didn't. Judges are usually so busy watching the gymnasts that they do not see small gestures.

 

[nevertooold]

I agree that your child's coach should have directed her in the moment on what to do after her fall.

For me the issue of repeating the skill or not is dependent upon the child, what point you are at in the season and the goal for that meet.

Sometimes it is better to repeat the skill even if you know you may incur deductions b/c it will be better for the CHILD to know that they can do the skill under pressure. Sometimes after a fall I will ask the child "do you KNOW you can do it?" or "do you WANT to try again?" These kids work hard and are disappointed in themselves when they fall on something they know they can do, due to nerves or first meet, and it can be good for them to get a 2nd chance, regardless of how the score comes out.

 

[flippersmom]

If you missed the skill, don't go back and repeat it. That is adding a skill and is a .3 deduction. Completely skipping a skill is double the value of that skill. If you complete the skill and then fall, don't repeat it. You already got credit and could either fall again and/or receive form errors. If you fell before completing the skill and know you can do it, it may be worth completing to get full credit for the skill, minus the fall and form errors. If you fall again, you now have two falls and any additional errors. Example - In the dismount on beam in L4, some girls will miss turn. They may go back up into the handstand to still get credit for the turn and the hold, but will still receive deductions for fall. I would only suggest repeating it if you are sure you can get it. Otherwise you would still not receive credit for the turn and hold, and would now have two falls.

Judges can give warnings to coaches giving signals or cues during a routine, and after the warning it can be a deduction. Same for teammates.

 

[gymch34]

There is no deductin for repeating a skill. The .3 is for doing something totally extra-not sure what that would be.

This should really be a conversation for the gymnast & coach. That way the athlete will not be confused- "should I do what mom told me, or my coach told me?" I would not have a L4 repeat a skill, they are just too young and will get too confused.

 

[Chalky]

The only skill I would have them repeat is the beam dismount, and only if they did not make the turn the first time.

I really don't think parents should be giving advice on things like this. Leave it up to judges and coaches who should know the rules.

 

[flippersmom]

The .3 would be for her going back and doing the front hip circle after she skipped over it it and had done the next skill. She had already skipped the skill and was putting it in later.

I have just studied and passed the L5/6 test. I didn't mean falling and missing, and meant skipping and then going back later in the routine to add it.