WAG question about bars deduction

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cbifoja

Proud Parent
We had a meet this weekend where are bar scores were a bit lower than normal and especially so for one of our gymnasts. Our coach made an inquiry and was told that the cast before a clear hip had to get to handstand or it was a 0.4 deduction. Our coach said she asked the judges when that was decided because she went to "the meeting" and wasn't told this.

So responses? Do the girls have to hit handstand on the cast before clear hip because all of the parents thought they just had to get to horizontal on casts for L6.
 
I think either your coach misinterpreted the judges' answer or the judges misinterpreted your coach's question.

Casts short of vertical can get up to .3 in amplitude plus execution. Clear hips have up to .4 in amplitude. A cast to horizontal would fulfill the special requirement for L6 but would get the .3 amplitude deduction. (See the other two level 6 bars threads...) This has always been in the rules for this 4-year cycle.
 
Okay. So confusing. LOL In the end it doesn't matter because what's done is done. One of our mom's was really upset because her DD got nailed hard on bars. She was my source so I'm getting my info second hand and there may very well be some major misinterpretation going on at several levels!

I had read the other threads but where I got confused is where the mom was talking about the cast before a clear hip having to be handstand. She didn't say anything about the clear hip angle but I knew from talking to the coach about my DD's clear hip that there was an angle requirement for each level.

Thanks so much for helping!
 
It is my understanding that the special requirements for L6 are one cast to horizontal. If no casts reach horizontal then the start value is 9.5. BUT since this is an OPTIONAL level ANY handstand that doesn't reach vertical will receive up to 0.3 deduction each time. So an a single cast you can potentially lose 0.8 points and any cast after that will also receive the up to 0.3. It adds up REALLY fast.
My DD had this exact thing happen to her on her first meet. Didn't get a single cast to 45 (l7) so start value was 9.5 then because each of three casts were well below vertical she lost an additional 0.3 x3 so 0.9 on casts alone. Score was 7.3.
This past weekend, she had her casts well over 45 but not to handstand- scored 8.1.
 
Ouch on the 7.3!

The way you are explaining it might be what the other mother was talking about because she said something about a 0.8 deduction for EACH clear hip that her daughter had.

I think that I just got information colored by a mom being upset for her daughter. But it's always good to understand more about all the possible deductions these girls can run into.
 
Ouch is right. DD was really pleased with the score this time. Casts still need some work and she had a wonky flyaway but well on her way.

The deductions really ad up in a hurry that is for sure.
 
The way it was explained to me was the cast before the clear hip. This is one reason I was so confused about the explanation. I just thought there was a vertical requirement or a 45* above verti. But hey, it was late so maybe I"M the one who misunderstood the mom.
 
The clear hip only has to reach horizontal to count as a B skill. I think there is a height deduction if it get over 45 but under vertical and then it becomes a c skill.
 
The .05 for 11-20* from vertical is not applied to L6-8. Clear hips no longer have to go to horizontal to get the B.
 
The clear hip only has to reach horizontal to count as a B skill. I think there is a height deduction if it get over 45 but under vertical and then it becomes a c skill.
At Levels 6 and 7, they can't take the height deduction for over 45º but under vertical because they are not supposed to be doing C skills.... and a clearhip handstand would only be credited as a B. Any clear hip for these levels is now a B, but they CAN take a deduction if it is not to horizontal or has shape / form issues.
 
In Level 7 the clear hip to handstand is one of the few allowable C skills along with the sole circle to hand stand and another one that I don't remember so on those ones the amplitude deductions do take place once it reaches the minimum standard for a C skill which is above 45.
 
Every cast in a L6-10 bar routine is expected to reach handstand to not incur the up to .3 amplitude deduction. (Except casts unto bails or a peach salto thru level 8 and casts into a squat/stoop/straddle onto the LB that leads to standing up and grasping the HB)

Every clear hip is expected to achieve 45 degrees to not incur the up to .4 amplitude deduction.

So for example: a gymnast performs a horizontal cast and a clear hip which finishes at horizontal. She will receive a .3 amplitude deduction on the cast and then a .3 amplitude deduction on the clear hip. That angle is determined by her lowest body part which could be her toes, her stomach, her knees, etc.

On top of the amplitude you have to remember we are also looking at body shape, arms and legs. Many kids have at least a .2 arm bend in clear hips, especially at level 6.

If your coaches are confused there are pictures and explanations on pages 80 and 81 of the code.
 
Ok, I get the clear hip deductions but the cast before the clear hip if it is above 45* but not to vertical, what is that deduction. Here is my DD's last bar routine and I think she got at least .1 or .2 on her low bar cast since it was not to handstand. . Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't think the coaches are pushing for her to cast to handstand even though I know she can as she does it on the high bar easily!
 
0-10 degrees from vertical=B value, no deduction

11-20 degrees from vertical=B value, .05 deduction

21-30 degrees from vertical=no value .1 deduction

31-45 degrees from vertical=no value .15-.2 deduction

45 degrees and lower=no value .25-.3 deduction

This is just for casts!!!!

Nice level 7 bar routine:)
 
In Level 7 the clear hip to handstand is one of the few allowable C skills along with the sole circle to hand stand and another one that I don't remember so on those ones the amplitude deductions do take place once it reaches the minimum standard for a C skill which is above 45.

Cast Handstand ½ turn, Clear hip circle, Back stalder & Pike sole circle bwd. to HS, all also with ½ turn are the only allowable "C's" on Bars.

All allowable “C’s” receive “B” VP credit according to USAG. And, since it can only be credited as a B, it would be unfair to take a deduction on the C for those Clear hips between 45º and 10º from handstand.
 
Ok, I get the clear hip deductions but the cast before the clear hip if it is above 45* but not to vertical, what is that deduction. Here is my DD's last bar routine and I think she got at least .1 or .2 on her low bar cast since it was not to handstand. . Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't think the coaches are pushing for her to cast to handstand even though I know she can as she does it on the high bar easily!


I am confused on why your DD's coach would not have her cast to handstand on low bar. ?? Our L7 girls are always encouraged to get to handstand on every cast, if they are able.
 
Cast Handstand ½ turn, Clear hip circle, Back stalder & Pike sole circle bwd. to HS, all also with ½ turn are the only allowable "C's" on Bars.

All allowable “C’s” receive “B” VP credit according to USAG. And, since it can only be credited as a B, it would be unfair to take a deduction on the C for those Clear hips between 45º and 10º from handstand.

I am pretty sure that coachP or someone on a previous thread about this explained that even though it is credited as a B skill it is scored as a C skill if it went over 45 degrees. So in Level 7 to not get any deductions on the free hip you really wanted to either keep it between horizontal and 45 degrees OR make it to within 10 degrees or something like that. Definitely kind of odd but apparently the way it works.
 

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