WAG Question about level 4 bar routine

[meganliz77]

What are the cast requirements? I watched my daughter (at her request lol) for a few minutes today and it seems her casts for this routine have gotten much smaller than I ever remember them....

She has the power and ability to do more, that's why I'm wondering...

Don't worry-- no coaching here, just trying to understand!!

 

[dmbgymnast]

It is horizontal, i believe.

 

[AgingHippie]

I understood it to be horizontal as well. My daughter said something about them be able to just see over the bar to know they were doing it right.

 

[meganliz77]

Thank you! I just talked with her after practice… Asked her about it. She said the bar setting was too big for her, so she doesn't get as much power… Then she started talking about angles and deductions and I realized I have no business asking LOL.

She seems to know what she needs to do… And I know she can do it because she's been practicing Giants for the first time this week! And I'm guessing those take some power ;-)

 

[munchkin3]

Horizontal casts.....but in Level 4, the competitiveness and polish can vary greatly depending on your region. In our region, we regularly saw girls casting way above horizontal, and for the swings to go way above the bar. Also, each kip cast, low bar vs. high bar are different technique so one may be bigger than the other.

For scores over 9, I would estimate that casts MUST be at least horizontal, and with great hollow tight form....
That's what I saw last season....

 

[beachgirl]

From what I can see at our gym about half of the L4s are casting to handstand at least once.

 

[ldw4mlo]

What they are doing vs what is required are not necessarily the same.


https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Junior Olympics/compulsory/illustratedroutines_feb14.pdf

 

[GymnastMomX2]

From what I can see at our gym about half of the L4s are casting to handstand at least once.

Really? I don't think I ever saw a level 4 cast handstand the whole season my DD competed it. Crazy. My DD had a high score of 9.75 at level 4 bars with casts just a touch over horizontal. The form is more important I would think than trying to cast super high.

 

[ldw4mlo]

Really? I don't think I ever saw a level 4 cast handstand the whole season my DD competed it. Crazy. My DD had a high score of 9.75 at level 4 bars with casts just a touch over horizontal. The form is more important I would think than trying to cast super high.

Again what they do in the gym is not what they do at meets.

Our girls are practicing higher casts, they won't be competing them.

 

[profmom]

It all depends on the competition norms where you are. Back when DD was the equivalent level, one gym was known for having most of their girls cast to handstand or close with excellent form. They always did very well on bars.

We observed that the same principle applies to boys' L4 parallel bars. Boys who were swinging to HS with excellent form on nearly every swing routinely outscored boys who were swinging correctly but not as high. In both cases, however, clean and just meeting the requirements did better than sloppy and exceeding them.

Your coaches will be more on top of your local norms than us.

 

[munchkin3]

I think clean requirements always beats sloppy 'next level' skills..... Regardless of boys vs. girls..... I have one of each....
Of course clean routines with a kid who is clearly a level above everyone else will always win.
BUT with that said, clean decent routines should do well, and get placement

 

[Flyaway]

Slightly OT- but at what point does that become sandbagging? I get that there are different methods of training, but it seems to me that the most successful gymnasts at meets are the ones who are clearly working a level above their competed level. It's one reason I'm glad my dd is repeating-she never stood a chance last year.

 

[twinmomma]

Slightly OT- but at what point does that become sandbagging? I get that there are different methods of training, but it seems to me that the most successful gymnasts at meets are the ones who are clearly working a level above their competed level. It's one reason I'm glad my dd is repeating-she never stood a chance last year.

Yeah this is tough. I know the sandbagging discussion comes up repeatedly here. I'm really really nervous for my DD as a new L4 this year. I know some of the gyms in her session on sunday have repeaters and I just don't want her to be disappointed. She doesn't really care about placements, I just want her to feel like she was prepared as well as any of the rest of the kids. Having gone through a gym change less than 8 weeks ago, we are all just biting our nails hoping for her to feel positive about her first meet with this gym.

There's nobody in her L4 group who will compete a cast to handstand. Our girls look solid, and are consistently uptraining L5 skills but with the express intent to be ready for L5 testing after season. I have a really hard time with gyms that require skills one and two levels up to compete a level (as in they have to have L4 or 5 skills in order to compete L3). To me that's like requiring trigonometry level ability to take algebra. It makes no sense and I think it demoralizes a lot of the kids and makes a mockery of the progressive process of the sport. It makes the competition more important than the kids.

I just wish there was a way to stop it.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

To ME, blatant sandbagging is when you see kids who without a doubt could and should be competing at least one, if not two, levels above where they are competing. If you know someone HAS all L7 skills and they are competing L4/5 with the intentions to make their gym win, that's "wrong", IMHO.
If a gym routinely repeats most levels with the sole intention of winning, that's "wrong".

However, there could be plenty of other factors and we don't always know. Sure, we had a few L4 and 5 repeaters last year BUT they repeated for good reason. Two of our girls who competed L5(one repeating, one new) had ALMOST all their L7 skills really well but each had some hang up on one skill. So yes, they scored really well and probably looked TO OTHERS as if they were sandbagging when in reality, they couldn't have competed L7 last year. A few of our repeaters didn't get their L7 skills in time so had to repeat 5, for good reason. Some of those girls may end up repeating L5 again... They didn't sweep the podium or anything though, they were very appropriately placed even though they repeated.

 

[munchkin3]

Everyone hates sandbagging! But it's a reality of this sport.....
I saw a girl last season in L4 states, she score above a 38 and two months later was competing L7..... But she was only 8 or 9 so I can't think there was too much repeating going on.....in fact she had only started as a L3 the season before....

Once we hit Level 4, and I knew my DD wanted to continue competitively with gymnastics, the goal was to finish L4 decently and move on to optional training.....from that perspective, we did not really care too much about placement, BUT she was clean and had good form......now she is focused on optionals, and she has really upped her game and become serious....

I wouldn't worry too much about L4. It's a tough level no matter what...it's competitive and for many it is the level that determines staying....

Just tell your DD to focus on form and listening to her coach.....emphasize finishing compulsories.....

 

[SignHere]

Sandbagging is a relative term.

Let's say your gym does not compete L5. So your L4s are going to compete L4 one season and L6 the next season.

Say your Compulsory and Optional seasons runs Nov - April.

Strategy 1: Compete and train L4 skills Nov - April. After States in April, begin working on Level 5 skills, do your score out meet in July/August, then begin working on Level 6 skills and begin competition season in November with the goal of "peaking" at States.

Strategy 2: During your Level 3 season, train Level 4 skills/polish Level 3 skills. During Level 4 season, Train Level 6 (Coincidentally Level 7 skills as well) skills. Polish Level 7 skills. After Level 4 season, score out of Level 5, then start Level 6 season, begin to continue/train Level 7/8 skills.

Our Level 6s are training Level 8 skills on some events. My own daughter, a Level 7/8, is training Level 9 skills on some events. As far as competing these levels, my DD likes competing while training skills a level or 2 up. It makes the skills she is competing seem "easier" to her.

 

[Flyaway]

To ME, blatant sandbagging is when you see kids who without a doubt could and should be competing at least one, if not two, levels above where they are competing. If you know someone HAS all L7 skills and they are competing L4/5 with the intentions to make their gym win, that's "wrong", IMHO.

If a gym routinely repeats most levels with the sole intention of winning, that's "wrong".

However, there could be plenty of other factors and we don't always know. Sure, we had a few L4 and 5 repeaters last year BUT they repeated for good reason. Two of our girls who competed L5(one repeating, one new) had ALMOST all their L7 skills really well but each had some hang up on one skill. So yes, they scored really well and probably looked TO OTHERS as if they were sandbagging when in reality, they couldn't have competed L7 last year. A few of our repeaters didn't get their L7 skills in time so had to repeat 5, for good reason. Some of those girls may end up repeating L5 again... They didn't sweep the podium or anything though, they were very appropriately placed even though they repeated.

True. I guess it's something we'll never really know for sure.

 

[ldw4mlo]

There is a difference in training a skill and having it solid and able to perform it cleanly.

Some gyms allow their girls to compete a level just having a skill, some want their girls not only to have the skill but have it solid and good form. Ours is the later.
That is not sand bagging.

Our girls uptrain, that they are in the process of doing higher level skills doesn't mean they do all for the next level or that they do them well. But it does keep them from getting bored.

The bottom line is no matter what level, division or skill you are competing, no matter how long you practice. If you compete, a skill done cleanly and with good form will beat a sloppy one. If a child is competing they need to understand this.

 

[ldw4mlo]

To ME, blatant sandbagging is when you see kids who without a doubt could and should be competing at least one, if not two, levels above where they are competing. If you know someone HAS all L7 skills and they are competing L4/5 with the intentions to make their gym win, that's "wrong", IMHO.
If a gym routinely repeats most levels with the sole intention of winning, that's "wrong".

Yes sand bagging is intentionally stacking the deck.

 

[twinmomma]

There is a difference in training a skill and having it solid and able to perform it cleanly.

Some gyms allow their girls to compete a level just having a skill, some want their girls not only to have the skill but have it solid and good form. Ours is the later.
That is not sand bagging.

Nobody said this was sandbagging. But if you require a child to "have" (and I mean cleanly have) the skills for L5 before they can even COMPETE L3, it's sandbagging. This is a progressive sport, where the skills of one level lead to later skills. So if a kid can do a clean cast to handstand, it's pretty likely their horizontal kip looks good. So again, I go back to my analogy. There's a difference between saying you can't pass algebra unless you can do algebra at a C or better level and saying you can't even GET INTO algebra until you can do trigonometry.