WAG Question about Level 7 bars

[reillysmom2]

Hi everybody! I am a longtime lurker but decided to come out of hiding and introduce myself! MY DD is 12 yrs old, training old level 7 at this time...not sure if she's going to compete level 6 or 7, we will see when the new code comes out. She was late to the game of gymnastics...started a year and a half ago, competed level 4 for a whole season then this year scored out of levels 5 and 6 to where we are now!
Anyways, not knowing a whole heck of a lot about these things, I have a question. I've searched the chalkbucket for similar threads but haven't been able to come up with the answer..someone may direct me if I'm missing a thread! But I keep seeing in the old level 7 for bars they have to have 2 circling B elements, one from group 3,6 or ,7. But I can't find what these specific skills are? Thanks in advance!

 

[coachmolly]

Most commonly used are giants and clear hips, either one of each or 2 clear hips for the girls who haven't quite yet mastered giants.

 

[reillysmom2]

coachmolly-
Is there anything they can use in place of clear hips? Does it make sense that giants are not the problem, but she struggles with a good clear hip? I don't know if its a timing issue or what..

 

[MaryA]

Not sure what the new requirements will be, but I can tell you what I saw this year. Mostly it was a free hip on the low bar and either a giant or two on the high bar, or another free hip if they don't have their giant. I occasionally saw a "sole circle" on the low bar. At level 7 States it seems as though I saw girls who did both of their circling skills on the high bar... cast, squat-on, jump to high bar, free hip, giant, giant, flyaway. Or is it required at 7 that there is one circling skill on the low bar and one on the high bar?

So those are the commonly used ones, at least. I'm not sure if there are others that would be "allowed"? It will be interesting to hear what other answers you get...

 

[MaryA]

coachmolly-
Is there anything they can use in place of clear hips? Does it make sense that giants are not the problem, but she struggles with a good clear hip? I don't know if its a timing issue or what..

Is free hip a required element at level 7? Could she do a sole circle on low bar and giants on high bar and not do a free hip at all?

Of course, what the required elements are for 7 may very well be changing next month anyway...

 

[reillysmom2]

MaryA-
That is exactly what I was thinking! Most routines I've seen has had at least one clear hip or two if no giant. My DD says that she has been working on "sole circles" and actually got to watch part of practice last night and I saw her do it...at least I think so. It was on the low bar, she casted out, put one foot on before the other and went around. Sometimes jumping to the high bar sometimes trying and almost making handstand out of it before kipping again? Does that make sense? I just wasn't sure if that would fill the circling requirement. And there's a good chance it all might change, right now her coach is just working on what old level 7 would be until the new things come out, then she said we could do 6 or 7 depending on where she's at.

 

[MaryA]

A sole circle fulfills the circling requirement, but then each optional level has "special requirements" that you have to do... Layout on floor is one of them at level 7. BHS on beam maybe? It seems like I knew them at one point, but after watching a season of 7, I'm no longer sure what is a requirement and what is just something that everyone seems to do. If I had to guess, I would guess that a free hip is a requirement because if it wasn't, I think a lot more people would avoid it. Especially the height requirements on the free hip cause lots of deductions.

 

[my4buffaloes]

A stalter (sp?) would count as a circling skill at L7 as well. Difficult to do though. As for special requirements? I don't think BHS on beam is required, dd never did one this year - but a flight skill is.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I've always heard that you need a kip + cast handstand at least on the low bar for L7? Not sure if true...DD just finished L6, and we are under the impression that it is something she's likely to need to move up. Also, if you do free hips instead of giants that the judges want them to be really high or they crush you. Also, if you don't do giants, your flyaway has to come right out of the free hip...i.e. you can't swing back and forth like they do in L6 before letting go.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

A sole circle fulfills the circling requirement, but then each optional level has "special requirements" that you have to do... Layout on floor is one of them at level 7. BHS on beam maybe? It seems like I knew them at one point, but after watching a season of 7, I'm no longer sure what is a requirement and what is just something that everyone seems to do. If I had to guess, I would guess that a free hip is a requirement because if it wasn't, I think a lot more people would avoid it. Especially the height requirements on the free hip cause lots of deductions.

==
A gymnast needs to have either a stalder, sole circle or free hip. It doesn't matter what bar it is on. If its not to handstand they get the applicable deduction (depends on the angle). If it is not to the required minimum they don't get credit for it. They can substitute any of these three elements for a giant swing by doing it twice, but you cannot substitute an additional giant swing for one of these elements. A giant swing and the (free hip, sole circle, stalder) are from two different groups in the code, the 360 degree through handstand requirement is specific for one being from the (free hip, sole circle, stalder) family.
without getting technical, I hope that helps.

 

[reillysmom2]

Speaking of the BHS on beam...is it weird that she has less trouble with the bhs than she does the bwo? The bhs is consistent while the bwo is still about 50/50. Her coach has always remarked on how flexible she is, and seems to have good shoulder flexibility but for some reason has trouble going straight back on the bwo, she tends to veer to one side. Her right side, although she's a lefty.

 

[reillysmom2]

Thank you coachp. So if they do a sole circle, they need to hit handstand out of it, correct? Then swing down and kip out if its on the low bar before doing a squat on to get to the high bar? If they do a sole circle around just to jump to the high bar, that would not count as the circling element. Sorry for all the questions. I've been able to get the gist of most of the complusory stuff but now that we are working on optionals, it's all very confusing for a novice to the sport like me. Thank you again!

 

[Gymmommy71]

Speaking of the BHS on beam...is it weird that she has less trouble with the bhs than she does the bwo? The bhs is consistent while the bwo is still about 50/50. Her coach has always remarked on how flexible she is, and seems to have good shoulder flexibility but for some reason has trouble going straight back on the bwo, she tends to veer to one side. Her right side, although she's a lefty.

Not odd at all. There are several great gymnasts on DDs L6 team that really struggled w/ the BWO on beam this year, but you can tell they will be much better at the BHS. W/o the right combination of shoulder and lower back flexiblity the BWO on beam can be a really difficult skill (I think that's why next year's L5 is allowing a BHS as an alternative skill). My DD was able to do a BWO on beam *long* before she got that beam cartwheel that she needed for L5, but she has a body that was just born to do walkovers of both kinds.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Thank you coachp. So if they do a sole circle, they need to hit handstand out of it, correct? Then swing down and kip out if its on the low bar before doing a squat on to get to the high bar? If they do a sole circle around just to jump to the high bar, that would not count as the circling element. Sorry for all the questions. I've been able to get the gist of most of the complusory stuff but now that we are working on optionals, it's all very confusing for a novice to the sport like me. Thank you again!

==
okay, its a great question because in gymnastics many tricks are called different things. Back handpring/ flick flack, or free hip/clear hip. In my gym we call the (feet on the bar circle around to a stand then jump to the highbar) a stoop circle or a sole circle. which have no significant value in a routine (a's). However the toe on to handstand in our gym (and most) is called a "Toe on Toe off" or simply a "toe shoot". in the code, it is called a sole circle, (which does have value, B or C depending on angle).
Toe on to handstand names, sole circle, toe on toe off, or toe shoot
Toe circle around the bar to stand on bar, sole circle, stoop circle (we actually call them stupid circles, but that's another story...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

us old timers...toe on toe up is a feet together circle to a handstand (up). sole circle handstand is feet out side the hands and goes to handstand.

free hip means to handstand. clear hip means the hips are clear of the bar but does not go to a vertical handstand.

and stoop is what you do for a jamb to invert or forward or backward inbar stalder.

these terms hark back to the early days of mens gymnastics and high bar. of course the girls side always has to rename stuff so that they feel special...lol...

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

us old timers...toe on toe up is a feet together circle to a handstand (up). sole circle handstand is feet out side the hands and goes to handstand.

free hip means to handstand. clear hip means the hips are clear of the bar but does not go to a vertical handstand.

and stoop is what you do for a jamb to invert or forward or backward inbar stalder.

these terms hark back to the early days of mens gymnastics and high bar. of course the girls side always has to rename stuff so that they feel special...lol...

I always get confused because you US people call things differently than we do. I keep seeing this free hip being talked about at Level 4 or something (maybe) but I watched some routines and I didn't see it at all (because to me it has to end in a handstand), then I realized you have this skill without a handstand that we don't even have. Don't get me started on the straddle circle, lol.

A sole circle is where they do a whirly thing with their feet on the bar then stand on it and jump to the high bar. A toe on is where they do something and end up in a handstand.