Parents Rant about the system (regionals age groups)

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josie55

Proud Parent
This topic comes up every year, and I usually have a pretty zen attitude about it, but I think I've finally hit my limit and am ready to declare that the system is grossly unfair. I'm talking about how the age group system works for L9 and L10 nationals. We are in a competitive region, and it seems that every year my kid is also in a giant age group. As I see her age group with 31 (!!) kids in it, I have to say, it's just not right. I understand the reasoning and rationale, but after many years of this, I will say it's gotten old and makes me feel just sort of over the whole thing. I am not sure I can take another year of seeing kids who score 35s qualify, and others who score high 37s or even 38s stay home. It's a reminder that the system is set up for the regions, not for the gymnasts. Fortunately my kid is just focused on trying to be in the top 7, but I'm apparently less mature than she is and it makes me really angry and sad.
 
…fewer number of kids in the age group means top 7 includes kids that may have scored 35s when for other larger age groups the bottom score is 37s…
 
Ahhhhh Got it, thank you! Ya rant away, but life is unfair, worry about what you can control.

There are dozens of examples of that throughout gymnastics and other sports. Ever read the book Outliers?
 
Are age divisions at regionals determined differently than other meets? If there are 16 age divisions no matter what, then is it not divided evenly like at a regular meet but by specific spans of birthdates that apply for each region? I can see how this could feel unfair.

But that’s how almost every other sport except gymnastics works! I have a child who does a sport with birthdate cutoffs and 2-year age groups. She is as young as you can be in her age group because of her birthday. She has a close competitor who finishes every other season one year older than the stated age range because of a birthday a week after the cutoff- the age group is determined by “age at x date”. There is a cluster of birthdays close to them so the age group they’re in is always very big, but girls a year younger have a tiny age group every other year.

I second the suggestion of The Outliers, which will be a crazymaking or validating book depending on your current mood.
 
Are age divisions at regionals determined differently than other meets? If there are 16 age divisions no matter what, then is it not divided evenly like at a regular meet but by specific spans of birthdates that apply for each region? I can see how this could feel unfair.

But that’s how almost every other sport except gymnastics works! I have a child who does a sport with birthdate cutoffs and 2-year age groups. She is as young as you can be in her age group because of her birthday. She has a close competitor who finishes every other season one year older than the stated age range because of a birthday a week after the cutoff- the age group is determined by “age at x date”. There is a cluster of birthdays close to them so the age group they’re in is always very big, but girls a year younger have a tiny age group every other year.

I second the suggestion of The Outliers, which will be a crazymaking or validating book depending on your current mood.
In L9/10 regionals the age groups are set up across the entire nation so that the qualifiers from the divisions are in the same age range group at nationals. These groups are announced before Regionals and supposedly splits the entire nation into equal age groups but that rarely happens within each region. What ends up happening is that some age groups will have 40+ girls (one year my d had 45 gymnasts) while others might only have 10. This can happen within a region as well as across regions. It often results in some division qualifiers needing only a 35 (and not filling all their slots) whereas others need a 37.5 to qualify.
 
This really irritated me when my d was in JO. I felt the region format push was less important than allowing the best gymnasts come together to compete against each other. We come from a very competitive region and often saw extremely talented gymnasts sit home
 
I wonder if they do this for timing purposes. My daughter doesn't get her start time/day for states until less than a week before the meet because they need all of the qualifying events to have finished, then they have to divide the girls into even groups by age.

It's frustrating not to know when my child will be competing since that means we have to plan for a whole weekend instead of one day, and we have another child who has stuff going on as well.

The alternative is to plan in advance, but have lopsided groups. It sounds like there are going to be some drawbacks either way and with large events with people traveling, they probably decided it's best to prioritize having things planned out in advance. That is just my assumption, and I could be completely wrong about all of this, lol.

My daughter is the youngest one on her team and typically outscores her teammates, but since she's in the more competitive age group, she gets fewer medals. It's technically "not fair", but we try to set other non-medal/placement goals, like trying to achieve a certain goal or completing a specific skill cleanly. I can see how it would be frustrating, especially with all of the hard work that is put into this sport!
 
@gymgal 45 in a session! That is insane. I guess I should be grateful for 30 - ha. Thanks for the empathy, though. I appreciate it! And of course I know all about how life is unfair, focus on what we can control, etc. etc. But L10 nationals is a big deal, can have an impact on pretty major things in their future, and they work so hard to get there that I find it frustrating that there’s such a large element of luck of the draw in it all.
 
It’s not ideal but our system, where I am in Australia makes your look ideal.

Generally competitions have a maximum of 2 age groups per level. They are always very uneven. So each gymnast can be going in competitions again as many as 150-200 other kids.

We don’t have systems, like they do in the US where they give out so many places. They only give out too 6 awards. So that does mean in a section of 150, there are 6 people who get a medal and 144 who go home with nothing at all.

Competitions do give them other stuff either, no goody bags etc. the majority of kids go to comps and come home with nothing whatsoever.

But because the odds are they won’t “get anything”, then no one really expects to get anything. Everyone has a great time anyway and the only thing they take home from each meet is often smiles and great memories.
 
I thought qualification scores to move on are based on scores not age group.
at least that is how it is Region 6 to qualify to regionals
 
I thought qualification scores to move on are based on scores not age group.
at least that is how it is Region 6 to qualify to regionals
OP was talking regionals to nationals. You are correct that you only need a minimum score (which is different based on region) to qualify to regionals. For nationals, each age group qualifies the top 7? gymnasts to nationals.
 
It’s not ideal but our system, where I am in Australia makes your look ideal.

Generally competitions have a maximum of 2 age groups per level. They are always very uneven. So each gymnast can be going in competitions again as many as 150-200 other kids.

We don’t have systems, like they do in the US where they give out so many places. They only give out too 6 awards. So that does mean in a section of 150, there are 6 people who get a medal and 144 who go home with nothing at all.

Competitions do give them other stuff either, no goody bags etc. the majority of kids go to comps and come home with nothing whatsoever.

But because the odds are they won’t “get anything”, then no one really expects to get anything. Everyone has a great time anyway and the only thing they take home from each meet is often smiles and great memories.
Frankly I wouldn't mind this, aside from it sounds like really long meets, if they are all competing together. The issue occurs when, from a particular meet, certain gymnasts are qualified to move to the next level of competition and the qualification is not based solely on score but on which particular region and age group you are in at that qualifying meet.


Reality - it is not going to change unless USAG decides to do away with the region aspect of Nationals, which I do not anticipate.
 
It's a reminder that the system is set up for the regions, not for the gymnasts. Fortunately my kid is just focused on trying to be in the top 7, but I'm apparently less mature than she is and it makes me really angry and sad.
I am usually a 'it is what is is' person, but I have to agree this seems upsetting to many great athletes.

It would be good if each region was able to take the top X gymnasts to nationals and then age groups would be formed based on the athletes that deserved to be there. This does mess with the whole team competition. There are also issues around the imbalance on regional strength and how that is best managed to give opportunity while still rewarding excellence.

I would argue that perhaps each region just needs to select a super team or a junior and senior team and everyone else compete as individuals - maybe some point system for these athletes contributing to their region - so they are still helping
Perhaps only four age groups for each region to select teams of 7/8 and the remaining athletes selected as individual competitors.
This would give the traditionally 'weaker' regions a larger pool of athletes to comprise a team from and give them a better shot at being competitive. I feel like the weaker regions do have strong gymnasts - they just don't have the high number of top scoring gymnasts.

What I haven't though out is the implications of when a region currently can't fill a team and other regions get those places - will that weaker region now have a kid who just qualified (and would have been locked out under current rules) get a ticket while the high scoring kid in another region still misses out?
 
OP was talking regionals to nationals. You are correct that you only need a minimum score (which is different based on region) to qualify to regionals. For nationals, each age group qualifies the top 7? gymnasts to nationals.
I’d be ranting too. It should be strictly score based.
 
Idk, nationals are supposed to represent the regions right? So some areas are going to have a lot of gymnasts, some are not. Some are going to be really strong regions others are not. So every region gets 7 representatives to send to nationals in every age band. To keep it equal across all regions you have to have the same age bands for every region. I certainly understand the frustration if one gets the unfortunate draw of a crowded age band or super difficult region, but not sure there is a more equitable way to it.
 
Idk, nationals are supposed to represent the regions right? So some areas are going to have a lot of gymnasts, some are not. Some are going to be really strong regions others are not. So every region gets 7 representatives to send to nationals in every age band. To keep it equal across all regions you have to have the same age bands for every region. I certainly understand the frustration if one gets the unfortunate draw of a crowded age band or super difficult region, but not sure there is a more equitable way to it.

Seems very similar to the Olympics. Certain countries could take many more athletes... it's just not the rules.
 

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