MAG Region 8 Level 7 Division I/II or A/B

Parents... Coaches... Gymnasts...
Gymnastics Questions?
Don't Lurk... We've Got Answers!

New For 2022
MEMBERS ONLY Parent Group!
Join for FREE!
Men's Artistic Gymnastics
Status
Not open for further replies.

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
I am not sure if all regions use the division I and II or A and B, but our region does. Division I gets credit for bonuses and division II does not. It is there to help "level the playing field"--I suppose. Our coaches want to place our son in division II to start the season. We did this last year in level 6, and he wanted to move to division I so they did this. At the regional meet in level 6 division I he did well. He was in second place in his group until the last event which is his worst, and he dropped to 10th--out of 20+guys. But it was good overall. (He also placed first in one event at the state meet in division I before the regionals.) He would like to be placed in division I to start the season and see how he measurers up to the better guys. He can do about half of the bounses in level 7 now but not all of them. He would likely do well in 3 events, decent in a couple and in the lower portion of the guys in his weakest event. He is fine with that--he just wants to compete with the best guys at his level to see what he can do. Placing really high in several events is not necessarily his goal. What I do not understand is the coach's desire to place him in division II when he would rather be in division I.

Here is my question: Is there some team advantage or some incentive for the coaches for gymnasts to be placed in division II and place higher in competitions that I am ignorant about? Yes, we have spoken to them briefly about this but might should again. And does anyone have some detailed references that I should review? Thanks
 

skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
I am not aware of any incentives for doing well. Some gyms like to have boys do well because it makes the gym look better....but not sure about yours. Division 1 and 2 are now nationwide, so we have lots of boys in our state that do both. At our gym, you have to have all of the bonuses to compete D1, otherwise, you compete D2 with no bonuses.

Some coaches will do things to keep them having a team at every level that they can (at least 3 boys). We have one boy that was close to being about to do L7, not quite, but getting there, but pretty sure he will do L6D1 instead. If they move him, they lose their L6 team, and have no L7 team either. Not sure if that could play a factor too. I know it can at our gym.
 

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
At meets our son will do the bonuses he is good at in div II. Of course, he gets no credit for them and is penalized if there is a mistake on one--not a logical method of course. But I do want him to do them in competition so he can get better instead of "sandbagging" with no bonuses just to protect his score. We do not have the team concern.
Thanks
 

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
Also, requiring every single bonus before competing in div I seems a bit punitive or arbitrary. Our son does a single instead of a double dismount from the P-bars for example. If that was the only bonus he lacked, it would seem extremely silly to stay in div II for only that.
 

skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
There is no double dismount from pbars in L7 that I can find. There is a double back dismount on rings allowed, but not pbars....unless it changed in an update that I cannot find.

Our coach believes in training above what you can safely compete. Even as a L10, my son has many skills that at some gyms, he would compete. But his coach will not let him compete until they are like 80-90% consistent in practice. It is a program philosophy that works at our gym. I know that most of our boys have all (or most) of their bonuses now for D1, and are just getting them perfected and training some skills for the next level. The boys that are D2 have some bonuses, but they are not competition ready. So they keep working the bonuses they need to move to D1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce

acam1103

Proud Parent
Feb 23, 2017
297
47
It seems pretty common around us that boys compete D2 if they don't have all, or most, of the bonuses for D1. I thought that was sort of the point of D2? There's no team advantage to have a kid compete D2 instead of one because team scores are just made up of the highest "X" number of scores in each event. So it would actually be advantageous to the team/gym if they had your son compete D1 if he would be a high scorer in a couple of events with the bonuses. Given that, it seems like they are doing it in the best interest of your son. What does his coach say about it?
 

skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
Oh, in our state/region, the team awards are Level X D1, Level X D2. So separate teams. So it does make sense in that regard....
 

gymboymom

Proud Parent
Oct 12, 2011
1,402
L7 is very different in my mind from L6. If you can do all the bonuses in L7, you would be a solid L8. Also the region usually has few L7 boys, so many of the boys are very young for L7, and then will be set up to be national level in L8 the following year. I think the answer to the D1/D2 debate is very dependent on your gym, the meets your son will attend, and the area you live in. Hope whatever division he does, your son is happy with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce and skschlag

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
The double dismount from the p-bars was more of an example--it is probably level 8. What are you referring to showing the requirements? That would be good to have. He just did a giant on the p-bars today--not very good but did it.

My son just turned 11. They considered level 8 but decided 7 was better for him, which I agree with.

The bottom line for him is that he would like to be given scoring credit for his bonuses, even if he is competing against guys that can do all of them. It would show him how high he can score in level 7. If there is no bonus credit, he really has no idea. I think this is more of a competing against the maximum score he is capable of philosophy than trying to beat your competitors philosophy. He would accept coming in first on one event and last on another.

We were told that they would likely move him to division I later in the season--we'll see.

Thanks for the responses and let me know of any other thoughts.
 

skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
It sounds like they are really working with him. I like that they will move him mid season! that will be good for him. My son moved from JD to L9 mid season last year and both were really good for him.

Welcome to CB!
 

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
Thanks. I think they are working him hard. I would have never gotten on here if I was not concerned about this. He is fairly sensitive--this div 2 makes him feel a little down. I am hoping they will actually move him later.

I played baseball/basketball/football/swim team and know comparatively little about gymnastics. Is there an on-line reference(s) showing the requirements/bonuses by level and one that explains JE, JO, and the philosophy behind each, etc? I am still a little lost compared to what I need to know. I have not seen anything comprehensive as of yet. You obviously know a lot more than I!
 

skschlag

Staff member
Gold Membership
Proud Parent
Jul 19, 2011
11,236
Region 9
Hope that helps!! I know I liked having it when my son was in compulsaries. Now he has the code of points, and it is a new language to learn. I just let him handle it now!
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce

sce

Proud Parent
Mar 11, 2014
6,149
Placing really high in several events is not necessarily his goal. What I do not understand is the coach's desire to place him in division II when he would rather be in division I.
I don't know why coaches choose div I or div II. The above is a tough one. Not all boys are the same and coaches don't always see that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bet Winner

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
I'll say one other thing. I know that the national guys were worried about the less talented/learning gymnasts feeling down about getting beaten so badly if there is no tiered system. As I said, my son wants to see how close to the max score he can get and then see how he improves. This system has the reverse effect on him. He would probably be happy being the only kid at each meet and competing with himself to raise his scores each meet. This system reminds me of the everyone gets a trophy philosophy.

I realize that we may be in a minority of people that do not like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce

2G1B

Proud Parent
Jan 27, 2013
2,226
I'm not sure which state you are in; but from what I have seen R8 in general does not have many L7s at all and the scoring is often brutal. I would bet that the coach wants him to just start in d2 and just see where he stands. A few years ago we had a kid win state championship for L7 across the board, seems great, until you realize he was the only kid in his age group. (And he was on the younger side).
 

samsmama

Proud Parent
Dec 31, 2014
877
Virginia
My son is right where yours is -- he'll compete L7 as an 11yo (turns 11 in Dec.). Maybe could have gone to L8, but neither he nor I was excited about that option.

He has at least one bonus on each event (which is what is required, I believe) but not all. He will compete div. 1 from the start of the season unless something unexpected happens. His coach just doesn't compete boys in D2.

On some events, like floor, he will have full bonus and will likely do very well. On others (ahem, p-bars), it may be iffy for a few meets. But this is exactly the strategy the coach followed in L6 and DS won his first two L6 D1 meets without a ton of bonuses b/c what he did was very clean. He gradually added in bonuses and had a very successful States and Regionals; by then he had full bonus on everything except the darn p-bars I believe.

Anyway, every coach has their own strategy and as long as the coach is willing to move divisions when he feels your son is ready, I think that's all that matters. My one question for the coach is whether there will be enough D2 7s for a competitive group. In Region 7, there were a reasonable number of D1 7s last year, but hardly any D2s. I know my DS would hate that. I do think the number of 7s overall is increasing following all the changes last year, so maybe it'll be fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce and Bet Winner

Bet Winner

Proud Parent
Oct 7, 2017
11
63
My son is behind on the high bar. Some of it may be the height and some of it is his flexibility. He could make contortionist videos. He has done things with his body that I have told him to never do again. For instance, he can hold his hand straight up and pull his thumb straight down to the SIDE to touch his arm. I did not know that was possible. Needless to say, he can go beyond a split with his legs straight out to the side, etc.
 

profmom

Proud Parent
Nov 18, 2011
9,461
Region 7
Is he doing a good prehab program for his shoulders? That's very important for hyperflexible male gymnasts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sce
Status
Not open for further replies.