WAG Repeating Levels

[LizzieLac]

Well, it depends on what type of gym you are at. If you are held back for no BHS on beam after you have very successfully completed the previous level, and have all other skills, you had better be at a gym that does tons of uptraining, and allows you to continue to train for the next level. If not, you're wasting a year. Some gyms are just not set up to allow repeaters to uptrain. They continue to train the routines that they already competed the year before, and not much else.

We uptrain quite a bit, but I think that is what leads people to think a gym sandbags. My DD is doing new level 5, but she has all of the level 7 floor requirements and most of the level 7 beam requirements except the BHS. She should EASILY do BWO-BWO on beam but our girls are not allowed.

 

[Quadqueen]

We uptrain quite a bit, but I think that is what leads people to think a gym sandbags. My DD is doing new level 5, but she has all of the level 7 floor requirements and most of the level 7 beam requirements except the BHS. She should EASILY do BWO-BWO on beam but our girls are not allowed.

I'm confused. Does her coach require her to do a BHS in new level 5? You said they must do a BHS if that is an option, and it is in new level 5, isn't it? BWO-BWO at L7 serves as a connection, but they still need a flight skill (BHS or RO).

 

[LizzieLac]

I'm confused. Does her coach require her to do a BHS in new level 5? You said they must do a BHS if that is an option, and it is in new level 5, isn't it? BWO-BWO at L7 serves as a connection, but they still need a flight skill (BHS or RO).

They can do BWO in level 5 or BHS if they have it. I meant level 6 or 7 - in those he requires BHS SO, though my understanding is there are other things you could do. He requires BWO-BHS SO for the connection in 7, even though you could do BWO-BWO. He just always seems to require the harder skill if the options exists for something slightly easier (yes, I know easier is in the eyes of the beholder).

My general point is that at our gym you will see plenty of girls repeating a level they just competed and placed consistently at the top. It is because his criteria for moving up is tough, and his philosophy is you compete where you can have success and train up the skills of the next two levels. The result is we do well as a team but I don't think his overiding motivation is to sandbag.

 

[happychaos]

My general point is that at our gym you will see plenty of girls repeating a level they just competed and placed consistently at the top. It is because his criteria for moving up is tough, and his philosophy is you compete where you can have success and train up the skills of the next two levels. The result is we do well as a team but I don't think his overiding motivation is to sandbag.

See this is the big difference for me. As long as the repeaters are being uptrained properly, I would have no problem with this. It's when repeaters are training with 1st timers, and have no time to uptrain that I have an issue with. The girls at DD's old gym that repeated (old) L4 were trained with the 1st timers, and there just wasn't much time to work new skills. They finished their 2nd year not much farther ahead than they were the previous year. Seems like a waste of a year to me. But, they do bring home the awards

 

[LizzieLac]

It's when repeaters are training with 1st timers, and have no time to uptrain that I have an issue with. The girls at DD's old gym that repeated (old) L4 were trained with the 1st timers, and there just wasn't much time to work new skills.

We make this work a couple of ways. One way is to split the kids in the level (repeaters and new). Repeaters will get to train tougher skills or even jump into the workout with the next level up, depending on how busy the gym is and if the numbers make sense (don't want one group with 15 kids and the other with 5).

They might even all work on the same drills just modified for difficulty depending on where they are.

It wasn't always like this, but this approach has proven to get the best results.

 

[skschlag]

Ds is a level 7/8 and he trains in a group with level 5-7/8. Coach makes it work. There is no reason for not training the skills the kiddo needs to work on next.

 

[iwannacoach]

So all of your new level 5s will have a back handspring on beam? I can see some gyms having the tougher skill as the goal, but to keep a kid back for a skill that's optional to begin with...?

Well QQ, let me introduce you to the new brass ring of the compulsory world.

I've battled with this for a couple of generations of gym kids...... hey, didn't I coach your grandma....... and the problem just won't go away because there are legitimate exceptions to consider. So much so that you'd have a section in the rule book that's as big as the rule book itself. In other words, it just won't happen.

Try looking at it the way I do. I'll let the the sandbaggers win all they want while I train a group that nearly ignores the compulsory skills in favor of skills and drills geared for optionals. What's odd, or not, is the training model I use produces fairly capable compulsory gymnasts who are very well prepared for optional work...... even though they've spent so little time on compulsory work.

I guess you could say we all pay a price...... for one thing or another.

 

[LizzieLac]

Try looking at it the way I do. I'll let the the sandbaggers win all they want while I train a group that nearly ignores the compulsory skills in favor of skills and drills geared for optionals. What's odd, or not, is the training model I use produces fairly capable compulsory gymnasts who are very well prepared for optional work...... even though they've spent so little time on compulsory work.

I would say that is probaby the way our gym approaches it - for the most part. I will be honest, we have a pretty strong JO team across all levels, although we are not in a huge state like Texas. The coaching was not always like this - there was a period of a few years where there was a focus on routines during the competitive season and most uptraining was in the summer. I think he was finding more girls needed to repeat!

So, he did a bit of what looked like level setting in levels 4-7 (almost no one moved up except for, I believe, 2.5 girls) and the focus became more on uptraining, always looking at the next level or 2 of skills, lots of drilling on fundamentals (body form/shape) and conditioning. We would "practice" routines during one or two practices right before a meet.

The results were pretty good. Strong performances in most meets by most girls in those levels, girls who were really ready for the next level when the season was over and yes, many individual state champs and team wins. And, we have always produced strong level 8-10 gymnasts although those teams tend to be smaller, maybe becuase he doesn't push the girls through the levels.

Does it look like sandbagging? Maybe, but the kids are happy, successful, and learning.

 

[wgymmom]

Well QQ, let me introduce you to the new brass ring of the compulsory world.

I've battled with this for a couple of generations of gym kids...... hey, didn't I coach your grandma....... and the problem just won't go away because there are legitimate exceptions to consider. So much so that you'd have a section in the rule book that's as big as the rule book itself. In other words, it just won't happen.

Try looking at it the way I do. I'll let the the sandbaggers win all they want while I train a group that nearly ignores the compulsory skills in favor of skills and drills geared for optionals. What's odd, or not, is the training model I use produces fairly capable compulsory gymnasts who are very well prepared for optional work...... even though they've spent so little time on compulsory work.

I guess you could say we all pay a price...... for one thing or another.

Then I wish you were my DD's coach, because she has gotten practically zero uptraining.

 

[txgal]

We have a local gym that sandbags a lot of their girls. They say it's because they aren't ready for the next level's skills, but they consistently win every meet with girls who are 3rd year at that level. I don't see the point behind this. My DD's (9 and 11) would become frustrated--yes, they want to win, but they also want to be challenged; they would both get bored of doing skills they could do in their sleep. They have just learned that when they see this team at their meet (and they're at every meet since they're just across town from us) that they're not going to beat them because they've had a 1-2 year head start on the skills. It sucks that has to be the way they approach the matter, but what can they do? Neither they nor their coaches have any power to make things different...

 

[raenndrops]

One of the area gyms sure seems to sandbag somewhat... I saw video of an OLD L3 repeater (who was consistently 37-38 AA... with 37.825 at her FIRST State meet) working Giants on the strap bar, RO BHS BT on Tumbltrak into a pit... all before her 2nd L3 season was over. Miraculously, she was able to skip Old L4 and go straight to Old L5 (scoring 35-38 AA)... then USAG announced the Level Changes and she went to a Bump Up Meet and scored over 36 at Old L6 (They decided to do the meet 2 weeks beforehand and all their girls who went were able to "Bump up.").

 

[Seeker]

This discussion is so interesting to me because we were at a meet this weekend that had both ends of the perspective -- sandbagging gyms that had girls competing L3/L4 that were clearly ready to do L5 or potentially L6. And then there were 2 other gyms there that had me cringing and closing my eyes, especially when they were on vault. Holy moly -- several girls didn't even make it over at all and a few others barely made it over the table. I don't understand how or why they allowed them to compete when they clearly were not ready. Same group of girls didn't have kips or beam cartwheels either, but that isn't nearly as dangerous as not being able to vault. It boggles the mind.

 

[kandkfunk]

And then there were 2 other gyms there that had me cringing and closing my eyes, especially when they were on vault. Holy moly -- several girls didn't even make it over at all and a few others barely made it over the table. I don't understand how or why they allowed them to compete when they clearly were not ready.

We have a gym in our area that let the girls decide their level this fall. The girls didn't want to "move down" levels with all the changes, so the gym moved them up. One girl got a double spot on level 4 vault. All the girls were spotted on floor, beam and bar skills. None of the girls made sectionals and you only needed a 31AA to qualify. In my opinion, this gym did these girls a real disservice.

 

[Seeker]

In my opinion, this gym did these girls a real disservice.

Totally agree. If I were a parent at a gym that did that or allowed the girls to compete at a level they clearly were not proficient at, I would leave. Really poor judgement and I would be concerned for DD safety.

 

[berrisweetness]

They all do it in some kinda way and it will continue, so leaving won't matter. You'll just get it somewhere else. Maybe nut as bad or maybe worse .

 

[sglemon]

Lol, welcome to the state of Virginia! It is the way things are done here. It is nearly impossible to place at level 4 states, in your first year. Generally the unspoken rule, is of you win states you get a free pass to level 5. Some gyms, I noticed during level 5 last year had girls repeat regardless of winning level 5 states, the year before.

My older dd was at that first state meet video, you posted, it was at Ocean Lakes HS in Va Beach. It was on Mothers Day which is why the girls were holding carnations. They gave them to us after gym introductions!

 

[3LittleGymmies]

@sglemon.. my daughter was an old 4 at VA states last year. It was tough competition in her age group. She had a 9.6 beam (2nd) which would have been a 9.8 if she didn't touch her hands down after the mount, 9.500 bars (5th), 9.425 vault (8th), 9.300 floor (9th).. 37.825 AA (4th). She had a very consistent season. We just so happened to be moving right after states and I asked her old gym where they were thinking of putting her for this season so that I had an idea when we were looking at old gyms. They said that they were on the fence about whether or not she would repeat in what is now new 3 but that she probably would be. Then again.. they are a winning gym and like it that way........... . She moved up at her new gym and I can't imagine her having not moved up watching what she is doing now.

 

[gymdog]

Lol, welcome to the state of Virginia! It is the way things are done here. It is nearly impossible to place at level 4 states, in your first year. Generally the unspoken rule, is of you win states you get a free pass to level 5. Some gyms, I noticed during level 5 last year had girls repeat regardless of winning level 5 states, the year before.

My older dd was at that first state meet video, you posted, it was at Ocean Lakes HS in Va Beach. It was on Mothers Day which is why the girls were holding carnations. They gave them to us after gym introductions!

That's true in a few gyms, but some of the best gyms in the state for optionals will go entire years without having a single compulsory repeat. You'll notice there are several gyms that have a significant drop off in results when it gets to level 7. The girl in the video was a first year level 4.

 

[3LittleGymmies]

*Her old gym also does not uptrain at all until after states and they make move-up decisions very shortly after they start uptraining. Her new gym is always uptraining.

 

[gymdog]

*Her old gym also does not uptrain at all until after states and they make move-up decisions very shortly after they start uptraining. Her new gym is always uptraining.

This is, of course, a significant factor in whether kids are getting 9.9s or gyms decide to make their goal having more level 10s with 9.5s along the way. Everyone has to decide what path is right for them. VA has tons of gyms nowadays, in most major metro areas there are some gyms that are huge optional gyms and some that are huge compulsory gyms. Relatively few of both.