WAG scholarships by the numbers

[gymgal]

There is another thread about early verbal commitments for college scholarships, the fairness of it, and whether it ruins the chances of other gymnasts who have taken a little longer to get to L10. It got me thinking about the true chances of girls getting scholarships. There is a number floating out there of about 10%, but I think that is in general, taking all levels and ages into consideration.

my dd is a L7 and in middle school. I don't know what the future holds for her but we have been of the mindset that we would like for her have the chance if she wants it and if she is capable. And I'm not just talking scholarship - just a spot on the team, if that's what she wants. We are betting on academics and our own finances to carry her through...

Well, during a bout of insomnia last night, I began playing with some numbers and here is what I found...

first, *on average*, there is about 185 scholarships awarded by D1 schools each year to incoming freshman gymnasts. In 2012, there were roughly 350 L10 high school seniors who competed at regionals (did this by counting the the girls in the age groups with 17+yr olds, then calculating 2/3 of that, as I figured about 1/3 of 17yr olds are juniors, not seniors). I know there are some elites and injured athletes in the mix as well but it doesn't change the numbers drastically.

So we are talking roughly 350 incoming college freshman gymnasts for around 185 slots. That's about a 50% chance *if* you get to L10 and stay healthy through senior year, but my guess is that it is a bit higher because not all these girls will want to do D1 gymnastics (or not do any gymnastics), and some are 1st yr level 10's who likely didn't catch the eye of the recruiters as sophomores/juniors to be in line for scholarships. So 2nd and 3rd yr L10s certainly have the advantage. Of course, this is all moot if you have a gymnast who is really picky and only wants certain schools but for the majority of girls who just want to continue their gymnastics career and get a good education at the same time, those are a lot better odds than the 10% often quoted for all gymnasts - *IF* you can stay healthy....

Of course... you could also look at it as: spending 10+ years training and competing for the chance of a scholarship, making it to level 10, staying healthy and you still only have a 50% chance of a scholarship.

Now, it would be interesting to break down the HS seniors by the number of years they have been a L10 and how many of each group get scholarships. also, the percentage of these girls who make it to Nationals as 10th-11th graders - as in: do you have to go to nationals to have a good shot at scholarships (I'm talking beyond the top 20 schools). But there isn't enough info out there to do it and it's too time consuming....

So, for those more experienced parents and coaches who have btdt - do my numbers add up? Am I in the ballpark with the figures?

 

[bookworm]

We have known some girls who have not gone to JO Nationals who have gotten college scholarships but I will say what they had in their favor was a coach who could really sell them to the college coaches...now granted they weren't going to a top 20 gymnastics program but they were going to decent schools, and going for free! I would say it's much more likely if you go to JOs though but by no means a guarantee as we have known girls who have gone to JOs and didn't get even a whiff of a scholarship (and a lot of this I feel was that their coaches weren't selling their gymnast enough..)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

omgosh...you really must've have had an attack of insomnia. now you've given it to me. let me thin about this for a couple of hours. some of the numbers are off a bit but not a ton. i'll be back.

 

[gymgal]

omgosh...you really must've have had an attack of insomnia. now you've given it to me. let me thin about this for a couple of hours. some of the numbers are off a bit but not a ton. i'll be back.

Lol really wasn't too long. My meet scores... I looked at the regional qualifiers for the senior divisions. I didn't do an exact count. Basically looked at a few names in the senior a and b divisions to gauge ages. senior As were only 16 yrs, for the most part. So I only counted the senior B,C,D groups.

 

[kwnative]

Very interesting! My DD still has a LONG way to go, but with the changes coming and them adding a level, she won't even have the possibility of competing L10 until her senior year, and that is if she doesn't have to repeat a level, which I know most girls do at some point. Our gym only does team movement twice a year, so I don't think they would let her move mid-season, even once she hits her mobility score. There are, of course, many, many other factors involved to get her there as well.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Something else to ate into account is this: international students on scholarship. There are lots of Canadians (and I suspect other nationalities) who go to all sorts of US colleges on scholarships. Not sure how that plays into your numbers.

 

[gymgal]

Something else to ate into account is this: international students on scholarship. There are lots of Canadians (and I suspect other nationalities) who go to all sorts of US colleges on scholarships. Not sure how that plays into your numbers.

Good thinking. No, I did not take those into account. are there significant numbers of foreign gymnasts in US colleges?

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[Fliptwisttumble]

I'm not entirely sure, but a neighboring gym has 3 girls who have accepted Div1 scholarships for the fall, and that's just 1 gym. Last year 3 national athletes (Olympians or alternates) went to the US.... I suspect a number of others as those were high profile girls. There are no athletic scholarships in Canada like there are in the US.

 

[gwenmom]

Thanks for the math. I am accountant and found it very interestinf

 

[GymBee97]

LOL you must have really been awake. Just one thing too the scholarships are for anyone not just the kids in your state that do gymnastics. They can be from any where unless the school has a specific regulation that it must be a resident from your state so the 350 number really isn't a good place to start. Also Sports scholarships in gymnastics are very rare and IF a gymnast is lucky enough to get one it usually isn't that big. so Don't stop saving those pennies for your kids collage yet LOL You would be better off encouraging academics and getting an academic scholarship rather than a sports scholarship. Also I know around where I live (and there are big name colleges here) they don't limit themselves to just L10. I've seen L8 and above make a college team. It really depends on what the college is looking for on the team. Its more like High School gymnastics when it comes to choosing kids for a team.

My DD's coach says my DD has a great chance for a college team because her love is Bars and she is good at them - he says not too many girls out there are bar lovers so its hard to fill that spot on the team.

 

[gymgal]

LOL you must have really been awake. Just one thing too the scholarships are for anyone not just the kids in your state that do gymnastics. They can be from any where unless the school has a specific regulation that it must be a resident from your state so the 350 number really isn't a good place to start. Also Sports scholarships in gymnastics are very rare and IF a gymnast is lucky enough to get one it usually isn't that big. so Don't stop saving those pennies for your kids collage yet LOL You would be better off encouraging academics and getting an academic scholarship rather than a sports scholarship. Also I know around where I live (and there are big name colleges here) they don't limit themselves to just L10. I've seen L8 and above make a college team. It really depends on what the college is looking for on the team. Its more like High School gymnastics when it comes to choosing kids for a team.

My DD's coach says my DD has a great chance for a college team because her love is Bars and she is good at them - he says not too many girls out there are bar lovers so its hard to fill that spot on the team.

The 350 number didn't come from any particular state. That's the total number of 17+ year olds who participated in the 8 regional competitions across the country for L10. You have to have a 34 to get to regionals so it is a good marker for the number of girls out there who are in line for scholarship, though many would argue that you likely won't get one unless you are scoring much higher, or recognition an event. I realize there are more (injured, elite, other countries) but it's a good rough estimate.

I'm not sure what you mean by the scholarships being small. D1 schools all have 12 scholarships to hand out (except the ivy leagues) and they cannot be divided up between girls. They are full rides (renewable each year, I believe). But I do hear you that academics is the way to go. That's the path we are betting on for our dd.

I will let some of the more experienced parents and coaches weigh in on the levels but from what I have seen with the programs that our local colleges compete against (D1), almost all of the athletes have been at least L10s for at least two years before college. Now, walk ons are a little different, particularly specialists, and many teams carry several walk ons. But I have never come across a level 8 in a D1 program and we have been loosely following college gym for several years. D3 yes, but not D1.

Dd is also a great bar worker and that is definitely a plus but she would still need to be strong in the other events to place high in the regional and national events to catch the eye of the coaches (if she lasts that long. We are a few years away from that).

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[kwnative]

I concur with what GymBee97 said about having a better shot at the scholarships if bars is your thing. The owner of our gym said that if a girl is great at bars and vault, she'll have a great shot at a scholarship. He said those are the ones the colleges look for most. And we did have two girls get full rides last year to D1 schools. One of them is at one of the top college gymnastics programs in the country. She is GREAT on the bars, and that is all she is doing at the meets this year in college.....it's her freshman year.

 

[Flossyduck]

Yep there are quite a few Brits in the US on scholarships and it's something increasingly talked about over here as an opportunity...

 

[Bajanswife]

How does an international student get noticed in the US? I would think she'd have to compete in major US meets, and I can't pay for that! I don't even think she's allowed to be sponsored, is she? For us it would not be financially possible or even worth it if we could find the money, unless we were pretty sure of her chances at a Div 1. This is why I haven't even been thinking of that - I am just happy with the benefits she's getting (mind and body) right now. DH still thinks about where she's going with this sport though, and I have to keep him realistic but not too realistic, or he may not want her to continue competitive gym at all!

 

[GymBee97]

In the US the colleges can't do anything until the end of Jr year in High School.

If you are interested in college gymnastics the colleges usually have something on their gymnastic web site that you fill out so they know you are interested in their program. So its a matter of the prospective student letting the college know they are interested to start. I know we have to put together a video of DD's JR and Sr year gymnastics so they can see her. According to DD's coaches it should be a mix of competitions and practices. I just thank God that DD's current coach knows what is needed and will video DD in the next season (DD's Jr year) with what he knows the colleges want to see. Then I'm told that some where in the Sep - Dec time frame of her Sr (last) year of High School she goes for a meet and greet and a lets see you in action visit. I know one of the colleges DD is looking at wants them to go for a week between Jr and Sr year in the summer to evaluate and see how they are.

Every college has their own way of doing things so its up to the student to seek out the path.

As far as full scholarships go for gymnastics I don't know of any girls that got full scholarships. Usually in the colleges I've seen the team is given a lump sum to use for scholarships and the dept decides how to split it up. May be its different for the colleges others have seen but I have yet to know someone on full scholarship for gymnastics.

 

[bookworm]

I'm not sure what you mean by the scholarships being small. D1 schools all have 12 scholarships to hand out (except the ivy leagues) and they cannot be divided up between girls. They are full rides (renewable each year, I believe). But I do hear you that academics is the way to go. That's the path we are betting on for our dd.



Bookworm: This is exactly how it is for girls gymnastics in Division 1 if they are getting an "athletic scholarship" for gymnastics ...gymnastics is considered a "head count " sport where there are 12 heads to give them out to..






Gymbee97:As far as full scholarships go for gymnastics I don't know of any girls that got full scholarships. Usually in the colleges I've seen the team is given a lump sum to use for scholarships and the dept decides how to split it up. May be its different for the colleges others have seen but I have yet to know someone on full scholarship for gymnastics.

Two points here...my daughter got a full scholarship so now you know someone...and the teams using the lump sum method you describe are probably D3

**just a note..that is my comment in the middle of the bubble but I can't figure out how to separate it !!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

LOL you must have really been awake. Just one thing too the scholarships are for anyone not just the kids in your state that do gymnastics. They can be from any where unless the school has a specific regulation that it must be a resident from your state so the 350 number really isn't a good place to start. Also Sports scholarships in gymnastics are very rare and IF a gymnast is lucky enough to get one it usually isn't that big. so Don't stop saving those pennies for your kids collage yet LOL You would be better off encouraging academics and getting an academic scholarship rather than a sports scholarship. Also I know around where I live (and there are big name colleges here) they don't limit themselves to just L10. I've seen L8 and above make a college team. It really depends on what the college is looking for on the team. Its more like High School gymnastics when it comes to choosing kids for a team.

My DD's coach says my DD has a great chance for a college team because her love is Bars and she is good at them - he says not too many girls out there are bar lovers so its hard to fill that spot on the team.

what? [Dunno has both hands on face]

 

[gasrgoose]

Two points here...my daughter got a full scholarship so now you know someone...and the teams using the lump sum method you describe are probably D3

**just a note..that is my comment in the middle of the bubble but I can't figure out how to separate it !!

Thanks for your input!! And congrats to your daughter! I've been told recently that bars and vault are a two very important events when coaches are looking for potential recruits. Not specialists on these events but all around gymnast who excel on these two events. Would you agree? I was told more level 10's succeed at floor and beam and fewer gymnast excel at bars and vault.

I'm really just curious my daughter is still really young.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yes gasrgoose, that is true. ^^^

 

[coachmolly]

Most DI schools give out full scholarships for gymnastics, I think it's actually more rare for gym scholarships to be split among kids unless it's a smaller/lower ranked school that doesn't have the same kind of funding. Partial scholarships are much more common in other sports and DII/III programs that have stricter limits on what kind of money they can give out and how much they have to give (I don't think DIII can technically give athletic scholarships at all, but can get around that by calling it something different if there is a kid they really want or if it's a pricey private school).
That's not to say there aren't D1 programs that give out partial scholarship or work with the university to find money from elsewhere to help prospective athletes out. I know Rutgers rarely gives full gymnastics scholarships, but they come up with some financial incentives if there is a kid they really want through other outlets.
As far as state quotas, some of the Cal schools are required to give a certain number of scholarships to in-state athletes, but I'm not aware of any other programs that have the same stipulations.
For those in the market for a DIII program, the process can be a little different. I remember hearing a few years ago that one of the Wisconsin schools essentially held "try outs" at the beginning of the school year for new athletes with mostly level 9/10s making the actual team. I think too few coaches are aware of the opportunities at DIII programs which is a real bummer for kids who love gymnastics but aren't level 10 National qualifiers.
Regardless of what type of program you're looking for, getting your name out there is the most important thing. So if you're not an elite/top level 10, that means lots of videos, filling out the interest surveys on the school websites, and having coaches that can really help market you well. There are opportunities for lower ranked 10s, injured 10s, and 9s out there- you just need to actively look for them (not just put up a website and some youtube videos and expect coaches to find you).