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Nico

Coach
Proud Parent
Judge
Aug 1, 2013
39
Mechelen
Dear coaches,

I need your advise to increase the running speed of a slow runner on vault.
When we have tests, her sprint is ok. She not the fastest, but far from the slowest runner.
But when we use a trampoline, springboard, plankoline, etc., she can't run as fast as in tests.
She has very long leggs and it's as if she's 'floating' over the mat when she runs.
She makes very long steps, but the frequency of the steps is very low, resulting in a slow run.
I tried sprint training, sprinting to a line, sprinting to a little mat, ... But when I change the mat by the springboard, she's 'floating' again.

When she hits the springboard she has this little bend in the knees, it seems like she's absorbing the energy.
We do a lot of plyometrics though...

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
B

BlairBob

More leg strength.

Hard to say without some number metrics like height, weight, broad jump distance, vertical jump height, 20m sprint time.

Plyos make the body effecient at reacting. But still isnt a substitute for strength. Some kids never need this focus as they come along naturally atrong or with good levers.

Personally, Im not a huge fan of loading up any gymnasts with a bar on their back but DB lunges or squats provide better strength work than just BW versions. Also big step ups or single leg squats.

With some girls you need to work on ankle strength as well for them to punch floor or run on the ball of their foot without collapsing.
 

Nico

Coach
Proud Parent
Judge
Aug 1, 2013
39
Mechelen
I'll give you the asked details tomorrow, as they are on my pc which is at work.
What time is considered a good time on a 20m sprint, standing start and start at signal (for different ages between 6-12y)?
 

iwannacoach

Coach
Proud Parent
Gymnast
Mar 25, 2012
2,877
region II
It can also be a matter of having too much of a good thing..... like room to run. Here's a suggestion if it comes down to effort, willingness, and determination not being what they need to be.

If you give a kid a thirteen step run for a handspring vault, she just may take you up on that offer and use all 13 to get up just enough speed for an easy vault. Hey, she may even go one better and put in a few extra steps.

I think we first start teaching vault the right way by having kids run a couple of steps to a hurdle and punch that rebounds up to a stack of mats. We screw it up when we tell them to run 60+ feet and then do the hurdle-punch and go into a real vaulting motion. There's a lot that should take place between the hurdle drill and full vaulting.

Give her three steps and tell her you expect to see these three steps run with maximum effort into a hurdle-punch that rebounds and elevates to a standing landing on a 30-36 inch stack of mats. Give her the rest of her vault time to get as many of these done as she can. And one other thing. Have her measure or note where she's starting the 3 step run from. It should start somewhere around 14 feet from the end of the board for the first few tries, and then get longer as she puts more effort into her stride..... so maybe around 17 feet by the time she's done 8 or 9.

The next practice have her do a few from the last good starting position, and then have her move back 8-9 feet to give her room for a five step run, which will also stretch a bit as she continues to increase her speed. Since a five step run makes it too easy to make a straight jump to 36 inches, add some height to the mat stack so she has to really get into her run for enough punch energy to get that high...... like about 48-54 inches. Do it for a day or two, and then add 10 feet and two more steps, which should be enough to make a handspring....maybe spot a few just to be safe.

After a week, or more if you're patient, look at her and see if she's getting all she can out of those 7 steps. If she has you smiling about her effort, and promises to work the next 2 steps as hard as the first 7, then add 10-11 feet and two steps.

I just want to say that how many feet you add for every 2 step increase has a lot to do with their leg length and effort for speed. Taller kids will stride at about 11 feet for two steps, maybe more if they're really getting down the runway. For shorter kids that number will be around 9 feet.
 
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CoachTodd

Coach
Proud Parent
Nov 4, 2009
810
North Carolina
Post a video and I should be able to give you a good idea of what she's actually doing. What you are describing seems to be more of a hurdle issue that a run issue.
 
B

BlairBob

6-12yo depends a lot on height.

For a 6yo runt, I'd like to see a time of 4.5-5 seconds.

For a 12yo, ideally they are breaking 4 seconds, and often a strong sprinter will be around 3.5-3.75 seconds.

For a 9yo, breaking 4 seconds is a good goal and often some of these kids will approach 3.5 seconds. Especially if they are boys. For the most part at these pre pubescent ages, speed and strength is similar.

When I was around 150# @ 5'1, I generally could clock pretty close to 3 seconds maybe a touch under. Elites are known to hit 2.7 or 2.8 I think, maybe even less.
 

Nico

Coach
Proud Parent
Judge
Aug 1, 2013
39
Mechelen
I'm sorry for the long delay, thanks for the posts anyway!

This girl I was talking about is 11 yo, 1m45 and runs 20m (standing start, on signal) in 3,94s. These data are from past june. We have tests this friday and I did a bit of sprint training and used the tips you gave me. I'll post the results from next friday, but I don't think there will be a big difference.

I also think it's more a hurdle problem, because here score on the sprint test is one of the highest of here age group.. I hope times will be beter this time as we only started to train sprint recently.
 
Sep 7, 2010
452
USA
Caveat; If you wish to be fast, you need to train fast. Humans who are faster by genetics/muscular/mental still need to train fast. For those who are not "fast" we need to train fast to be at our maximum.

Is your athlete running at her maximum - your judgement.

I have adopted some of the sprinter training that track coaches utilize. A 13 step vault run has a slow, sprint, maintain and transefers in mili-seconds to a hurdle. We train the sprint, maintiang a fast run incontrol/balance and fast hurdles.

Like Dunno, training the segements and putting it together in pedagogic maner is the art.

Best, SBG -
 
Sep 7, 2010
452
USA
Apologies for the post above. I was using my smart phone and it outsmarted me. Spelling and text errors abound. I will only use a laptop in the future. Apologies again, Eric -
 
B

BlairBob

No biggie, SBG. I know some mods get their leggings in a bunch but...
 
B

BlairBob

I use tge same 13 step approach but it was Oleg that switched me to it.
 

CoachTodd

Coach
Proud Parent
Nov 4, 2009
810
North Carolina
I'm a little confused about most of this thread and the posts about timing the run. I firmly believe the last 3 steps and the hurdle are really the ones that count. I've coached some extremely powerful vaulters that really didn't run full speed to vault. I'm still sticking with this most likely being a hurdle issue.
 

iwannacoach

Coach
Proud Parent
Gymnast
Mar 25, 2012
2,877
region II
I'm a little confused about most of this thread and the posts about timing the run. I firmly believe the last 3 steps and the hurdle are really the ones that count. I've coached some extremely powerful vaulters that really didn't run full speed to vault. I'm still sticking with this most likely being a hurdle issue.

You're absolutely right if you have a kid who can run and hit a mark on the correct foot, and then work those last three steps. If you're getting good results with this approach, great, but they still need some measure of speed and strid consistency to get to that point on the runway where they go hard for those last three strides.
 
D

Deleted member 14190

Is this a front vault or RO entry?
Best front vault entry drill for speed.
Tip your vault over to the right or left and put in a 4 inch mat, spanning all the way from the hurdle line to the original vault base landing mat. Cover the exposed legs of the vault with a panel mat to protect the kids incase someone runs into it. Make sure you have a run out after the base mat, if you have a wall (which we do), put up a soft 8 inch mat on it. Have your athletes start on normal starting spot and just get them to sprint, (tell her not to worry about steps, but just sprint). She should be up to speed because there is no object in her way. Then work exclusively on her steps and speed, making sure she is increasing her speed as she passes the hurdle line AND accelerating out of the hurdle to a 3 step burst. Then after a few days, add the hurdle and work the closing speed. Keep the hurdle low and make sure she is NOT hurdling to a punch. Have her hurdle to her other foot and accelerate out of it. Very important that you have your kids accelerate out of the hurdle, teaches them to develop a hurdle that doesn't slow down, which is a natural reaction.
If this is a RO entry do the exact same thing, except your athletes will hurdle much earlier, but really work on the acceleration of the hurdle/arms etc.. and again a burst of speed out of the hurdle.
As coach todd said, it's about closing speed and acceleration, I TRY to teach all my kids the difference between coming in with speed and actually accelerating.
If you have room by the vault have someone run next to them and turn it into a race, that is a big help and motivator. .
Hope that helps, good luck.
 
D

Deleted member 14190

couple year old video so not a brag alert... this is my kid, so yes I have permission.
Ignore the rest of the video, but in the first few seconds of the video you will see the 1st vault doesn't show the run, the 2nd vault is at speed and the 3 is accelerating.
we worked a TON of the drill that I posted above.
 
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