WAG Squat on versus mill circle?

[Ginger]

My daughter is trying to get her L4 skills for the upcoming season. She is very close to her kip, however her main challenge on bars is squat on. Probably fear issues, I am not sure. She seemed to be on her own on the 'station' bar today, trying her squats on and failing, then during her turns with the coach she was told to do mill circles. Her coach only spotted her (lightly) for the kip, but then she didn't even get her 'squat on try' under the coach supervision or with spot, she only did the front hip circle + mill circle, basically L3 routine. Is there reason for this approach? Can it help her with the squat on?

 

[raenndrops]

The shoot thru for the mill circle is basically the same as the squat on... so the shoot thru would be more help than the actual mill circle itself.

Also, they could be preparing for the "default position" where, if she doesn't get the skills, she would compete L3???

Good luck and sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[fuzi]

The shoot-through, like the squat on, requires the gymnast to lean their shoulders over the bar. In that way, it may help.

Also, the coach is likely wanting to make sure she still has her L3 skills in case she isn't ready to move up to L4 and/or the coach is wanting her to spend some time on something that she is successful at, so she doesn't get too frustrated.

 

[happychaos]

From what I understand, there can be some value in working a FHC out of kip. I think it teaches girls to finish the kip leaning over the bar.

 

[Ginger]

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.
I was thinking about the 'shoot thru/shoulders over bar' thing, but wouldn't make more sense to tell her to try the squat on after she did the shoot thru just to 'get the feeling'?
Our comp season is still more than four months away, so I would understand if the coach just wanted to make sure she still can do her mill circle. But the girls had a long session on bars last night, so she got more turns with the coach that she usually does... and she got a lot of mill circles, but nothing else. She is actually closer to the kip than most of her teammates, but she is the only one who can't do squat on, and she is very frustrated about it (no squat on = no working on high bar, so she feels she is falling behind).
As for the FHC - I don't have problem with it, as I think the wrist shift/leaning over bar is all she needs to finish her kip.

 

[Ginger]

So another practice tonight, I was not there but my DD told me she was doing the mill circles again. Obviously if she doesn't have her squat on, she won't be allowed to do any of L4 stuff but the kip, that's what her coach told her. She only was allowed to try her squat on once (during the whole practice, not in the beginning of every turn she had on bars, and she said she got about five or six turns on bars tonight, so lots and lots of mill circles).
I read it somewhere that the squat on is a mental thing rather than physical, so it is normal that coaches play 'mind games' when it comes to this skill, rather than helping the child with it? Is she really supposed to figure it out on her own?

 

[raenndrops]

I read it somewhere that the squat on is a mental thing rather than physical, so it is normal that coaches play 'mind games' when it comes to this skill, rather than helping the child with it? Is she really supposed to figure it out on her own?

In our gym, when they are first introduced to the squat on, the coach will spot hips a few times. Then, if they still have trouble, they attempt squat ons onto the high beam. It seems to help some girls. At this point (from what you describe), HC would have your daughter in the "Squat On Club". The SOC girls do 10 beam squat ons a night, then take it to the little bar (used in the rec program)... 10 successful squat ons or 25 honest attempts and they advance to the regular single rail (or back to the beam if they really struggled)... 10 successful ones or 25 attempts there and they are allowed to go to the unevens on their rotation (all clubs are worked before any rotations)... each turn, they get to attempt the squat on first. If they fail, they do the nonstandard climb and jump to the high bar and work those skills. We have some girls that got their high bar kips before the low bar kip OR the squat on.
Of course, every gym is different. Good luck.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

Oh the dreaded squat on DD got it, lost it, got it back, lost it again at level 6 and finally seems to have it now for good, fingers crossed! I think it is one of those skills that is actuallty harder than it looks. Good luck.

 

[Ginger]

@raenndrops: thanks, your gym sounds wonderful. Unfortunately as I mentioned above, all other girls already got this skill, so there are no more drills or stations but the 'rec bar' where the girls practice their squat ons on their own (and my daughter just tries and tries, but again, she is on her own to figure it out, no more instructions of help from coach).

@mumoftwogymnasts: thanks. How long these 'got it/lost it' phases lasted? Did your DD get a help from coach during the 'lost it' phases?

 

[Ginger]

But again, I would like to know what the coaches think about the mill circle benefits. I searched this forum and it looks like some coaches consider it 'an empty skill just to fill lower level routine', others point out it teaches the reverse grip needed for more advanced skills. But can a girl who tries to get her level 4 skill benefit from repeating the mill circles (I get the shoot thru and FHC benefits, but what about the mill circle itself)?

 

[rbearclaw]

But again, I would like to know what the coaches think about the mill circle benefits. I searched this forum and it looks like some coaches consider it 'an empty skill just to fill lower level routine', others point out it teaches the reverse grip needed for more advanced skills. But can a girl who tries to get her level 4 skill benefit from repeating the mill circles (I get the shoot thru and FHC benefits, but what about the mill circle itself)?

I was told the mill circle teaches the reverse grip, leaning forward and shifting the wrists at the top.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

How long these 'got it/lost it' phases lasted? Did your DD get a help from coach during the 'lost it' phases?

She first got her squat on as a level 3/training for level 4, and the skill appeared to be solid, she was known in the gym as the girl who always made her squat on. It disappeared after about 2 years for maybe 2-3 months, came back for six months, disappeared for another six months or so. Fingers crossed it appears to be back for good now - but then again who would know? For two years dd thought she had the skill mastered.

Dd's coach says it is very common to gain/lose/regain skills and certainly it happens with dd's team all the time. Dd will often struggle with skills she had previously had after she has grown a little - I'm still surprised at the difference half an inch extra height can make.

I also think that like a lot of gymnastics skills the squat on appear deceptively easy to onlookers

 

[wallflower]

Perhaps because she doesn't yet have a kip or a squat on the coach is thinking level 3? That would be the value of practicing the mill circle.

 

[Ginger]

I talked to the coach this week, she said the mill circles are for shifting the wrist + leaning over bar. I don't know, but as long as my daughter is getting help with her squat on (she does now), I can live with a few mill circles. So, I would say case closed . Thanks everyone for helping me to figure it out!