Parents Strong compulsory vs. strong optionals

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RTT2

Proud Parent
I've been surprised by the number of gyms that absolutely kill it at the compulsory levels and then have almost no upper level optionals, and OTOH, by programs that are only about average with compulsory athletes, but powerhouses in the upper levels. Is this a philosophy a gym usually adopts when they begin a program- really focusing on either compulsories or more on optionals? Is it just so difficult to do both well, or is there something about coaching styles that tend to lead to greater success in one vs. the other?
 
I have found that the strong compulsory gyms with weak or no optionals have their girls practice longer hours and hold the girls back more often than the other gyms. They usually win a lot at state and use these winnings to attract girls/families to their program. They also often have huge teams. My dd started out at a gym (we moved away from the gym) that had weak compulsories and strong optionals. The owners just allocated resources, gym time/coaching/attention, to the optional program. Our compulsory girls did not get as much gym time and therefore couldn't compete with the stronger compulsory teams. It actually was nice because the girls could do other sports and not get burned out at gymnastics. All the girls that are still in gymnastics (they are all level 8 now) are doing really well, including my daughter.
 
Dd’s gym is good at compulsories but not a powerhouse. They are very strong at optionals.

I’ve found the same as the previous poster. Strong compulsory gyms around here have kids repeat levels and train more hours than other gyms. They really focus on perfecting compulsory routines to score high, but not necessarily developing the foundation for future skills.

Dd’s gym trains lower hours at the compulsory levels compared to nearby gyms, but train similar/more hours for optionals compared to nearby gyms. Her gym rarely has kids repeat compulsories.

There is, I think, also better coaching at dd’s gym for the optionals. Some of the compulsory coaches have been there for a while, but there is definitely more turnover among them, and some are better than others. Many of the optional coaches have been there for a while and are very good.

The other thing I’ve noticed is that is not unusual for kids to transfer to dd’s gym around L7. I think that’s when kids decide to pursue gymnastics more seriously and look for better coaching and a bigger optional team, and that certainly helps the gym’s optionals score better too. Usually those few transfers are pretty good.
 
If you looked at a snapshot of our gym you might call us strong in compulsory without a large number of stand out Optionals. We take state and regional titles in compulsory- and even in levels 7 and 8, but we’re just now getting the strong numbers in levels 9 and 10.

In our case, I think it reflects the age of our program more than anything.

We’re at a relatively young gym with owners and head coaches who are also relatively young. My logic is it takes time for the girls to grow up and it also takes time for the coaches to develop themselves to their fullest potential.
 
Well, I have seen what you're talking about, but my dd's gym has strong programs for both categories, and there is hardly ever a repeating compulsory gymnast. I think it just boils down to the gym philosophy, a little with the age of the girls transitioning into optionals, and coaching.
 
It doesn't seem to be that common in my state to have gyms really strong in one and not the other. Most of the gyms that are winning at compulsories are the same ones that are winning in optionals and vice versa. There are some exceptions of course, but most of those seem to not compete compulsories at all. They are the ones doing Xcel instead of compulsories. But I think what the previous posters said makes sense.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.

I’m sorry, but that’s nuts. Average of 38?? At our state meet last year, there were 7 scores of 38 or above, out of almost 1500 level 2-5 gymnasts. My child won 2 events and the AA with a 37.850 and there is ZERO chance I would waste money paying for her to repeat that level.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.

That's a very dumb rule. I wonder if it is a way to keep kids in the program without having to train higher level athletes.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.

An average of 38? With how many meets? So not just 38 at least once? Repeating compulsory to perfection seems short sighted, especially if they have no plans for the gymmies beyond that. There is a lot more to being a good gymnast than perfect cumpolsory scores. I’ve read over and over again on here about kids who were maybe just okay in compulsory but took off once they reached optionals.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.
Absurd. Agree with above poster. My older daughter never made a 38 in Compulsories and did great once she reached optionals.
 
Here is my take on it.

I don’t by any means think L10/college/elite is the best goal or best way to run every program. Focus on stron rec and Xcel is generally more healthy in almost every way (including the financial health of the gym), but if the question is about being best in JO, and you are a bit crazy like most of us, I think the bottom line is usually to do everything with the end in mind.

I think the best gyms (defined as producing the highest percentage of successful L10/college/elite gymnasts) raise their own gymnasts up from the beginning with the right form, basics, conditioning, work ethic, team spirit, character. They also create a balance of pushing/holding back so the gymnasts don’t burn out.

These things, when done right usually produce good compulsory teams, but not the kind that sweep the podium. The time that has to be wasted on detail to text error, and hand position at the young compulsory age is just that, wasted. The effort for a 7 yr old to have 38 AA is generally not benefitting them in the long run in terms of great skill basics, just a short-term 1st places.

Fantastic skill basics get you into the 37 range, but there is always a team out there willing to drill their L3 team (or, God forbid L2) into the 38’s. I think it isn’t worth fighting that. A good program (meaning one with a long-range view) will hold out and get solid basics and proper uptraining in place to win at the optional level. I think the good ones are willing to sacrifice scores a bit at L7, L8, and L9 to make sure the girls are uptraining appropriately as individuals and competing the skills they need to prepare them best for the next level.

Instead of competing bare minimum to win L8, and then panicking b/c they can’t pull L9 together over a summer, they will let the girls compete whatever skills they have ready (truly ready, and individualized for each girl) so they get the maximum competition experience to benefit them in the long run...again assuming the long run is L10, college or Elite.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.

We have gyms arou d us that have score requirments to move up, but this seems excessive.

At Ohio's L2-5 State meet last year there were only 7 total AA scores of 38 or greater out of nearly 1500 gymnasts. In fact only 12% scored above a 37. That'd be a lot of disappointed kids. Maybe your state has higher scores in general, but I can't imagine it's much fun for the girls.
 
Here is my take on it.

I don’t by any means think L10/college/elite is the best goal or best way to run every program. Focus on stron rec and Xcel is generally more healthy in almost every way (including the financial health of the gym), but if the question is about being best in JO, and you are a bit crazy like most of us, I think the bottom line is usually to do everything with the end in mind.

I think the best gyms (defined as producing the highest percentage of successful L10/college/elite gymnasts) raise their own gymnasts up from the beginning with the right form, basics, conditioning, work ethic, team spirit, character. They also create a balance of pushing/holding back so the gymnasts don’t burn out.

These things, when done right usually produce good compulsory teams, but not the kind that sweep the podium. The time that has to be wasted on detail to text error, and hand position at the young compulsory age is just that, wasted. The effort for a 7 yr old to have 38 AA is generally not benefitting them in the long run in terms of great skill basics, just a short-term 1st places.

Fantastic skill basics get you into the 37 range, but there is always a team out there willing to drill their L3 team (or, God forbid L2) into the 38’s. I think it isn’t worth fighting that. A good program (meaning one with a long-range view) will hold out and get solid basics and proper uptraining in place to win at the optional level. I think the good ones are willing to sacrifice scores a bit at L7, L8, and L9 to make sure the girls are uptraining appropriately as individuals and competing the skills they need to prepare them best for the next level.

Instead of competing bare minimum to win L8, and then panicking b/c they can’t pull L9 together over a summer, they will let the girls compete whatever skills they have ready (truly ready, and individualized for each girl) so they get the maximum competition experience to benefit them in the long run...again assuming the long run is L10, college or Elite.

Very insightful. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
 
A requirement of a 38 move up score would not work where I live. In my state only 2 (both L3) scored above 38 at this years state meet. There were 34 others who scored in the 37's (mostly equally split between L3, 4 and 5). I'm not in a powerhouse state like Texas but we do have several gyms that either send kids to D1 or the national team).
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level.
Whoa! Short Stack hasn't ever scored a 38, and she's done levels 2, 4 & 5, and is competing 6 this year.

I don't know of she ever would have moved up. She probably would have gotten bored or frustrated and quit.

But, each gym has their priorities and philosophies. Different environments work for different gymmies and their families.
 
We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue.
I find this intriguing. Compulsory teams are usually bigger (i.e. more gymnasts, more money) than optional teams. Is it possible that this gym has this rule to ensure high scores and podium sweeps, which makes people think it's the best gym? Then, in turn, parents want to send their kids there.

The impossibly high requirements ensure repeating AND high scores. Both of which keep the gravy train rolling.

And when it becomes more expensive and complicated for the gym (i.e. optionals) they drop a gymnast like a hot potato and say find someplace else.

I'm just wondering if it is purely a calculated business decision.
 
OK, I had to look. At our state compulsory meet last year there were only 5 level 3's that scored above 38. 4 level 4's and only 1 level 5. In the whole state.

Obviously we're not a powerhouse state. Thank God our gym doesn't require 38. Dd would have been driven out of the sport.

Our gym is very established but has gone through a big transition over the last few years and we are rebuilding our program. Right now people would say we are strong on compulsories but weak in optionals. If you know the story from the inside, you would just know that it takes time to build a strong optional team, and that's what we're working on by having strong compulsories that will eventually become optionals.
 
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Here is my take on it.



Fantastic skill basics get you into the 37 range, but there is always a team out there willing to drill their L3 team (or, God forbid L2) into the 38’s. I think it isn’t worth fighting that. A good program (meaning one with a long-range view) will hold out and get solid basics and proper uptraining in place to win at the optional level. I think the good ones are willing to sacrifice scores a bit at L7, L8, and L9 to make sure the girls are uptraining appropriately as individuals and competing the skills they need to prepare them best for the next level.

Instead of competing bare minimum to win L8, and then panicking b/c they can’t pull L9 together over a summer, they will let the girls compete whatever skills they have ready (truly ready, and individualized for each girl) so they get the maximum competition experience to benefit them in the long run...again assuming the long run is L10, college or Elite.

There are gyms that rarely have a gymnast repeat a compulsory level that have multiple gymnasts score 38 on every level (even level 1 and 2) and do not just focus on getting that high score. The high scores are the result of focused work outs and training sessions with skilled coaches. My dd's gym is often accused of holding girls back for their scores, but a quick glance at MyMeetScores.com will show the progression of the gymnasts and show that it doesn' t happen, the gymnasts are just that good.

I do agree with you that hyper-focusing on winning compulsory levels and keeping girls back just for scores is not beneficial to the gymnasts or the gyms if they want to build a strong optional team.
 
Our current gym has a rule that you have to score an average of 38 AA for a season to compete the next level. There is very little up training. We score very well in Jo 2-5 and have very few gymnasts above that level. Coaches have straight up said we would need to move gyms at level 6 if we wanted to continue. I don’t mind it for now because it is heavily focused on perfecting the basics. Form, shapes, conditioning, etc. We train average number of hours (4 preteam, 6 JO1, 9 JO 2/3, 12 JO 4/5, 16 JO 6). My dd is 7.
Omg....my kid would STILL be a level 2 at this rule. She never could get that fricking mill circle.
 

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