WAG Superb JO Gyms

[stillhoping]

I've always found it strange that gyms will tell an athlete that they are too old to pursue a goal, especially considering that Oksana Chusovitina is in her 40s and still learning new skills. It seems like you want your child to be in a program where they are valued and not cast aside. We all want that. You may find that your child gets more attention at a lesser known gym with a vision for growing their program rather than an established, large, strong gym.

 

[twinmomma]

who are you to call kids on YOUR TEAM, WANNA BE ELITES ???? And why are people actually responding to you after that comment. Psychological damage ? wow.... I really hope that any gym you attempt to join reads this, because I would not accept a parent like this on my team.

I have to agree here. This is a really rough way to categorize younger, hopeful gymnasts who've done nothing but show up and chase their own version of their dream. THEY aren't doing anything to your daughter.

An older, talented gymnast that wants to go elite? Two options in my book - a) find the right gym that will take her; or b) find a good T&T program.

 

[hearts_and_stars]

who are you to call kids on YOUR TEAM, WANNA BE ELITES ???? And why are people actually responding to you after that comment. Psychological damage ? wow.... I really hope that any gym you attempt to join reads this, because I would not accept a parent like this on my team.

I sometimes forget myself and fail to remember Americans have tissue paper for skin. It is possible to be critical of someone and still support them. I wish no ill toward the girls--they are terrific teammates and DD is quite fond of many of them. And yes, I do recognize it is not the girls who are in the wrong, but the coaches. Having said that, none of the girls our gym is testing this season will come close to being competitive at the elite level (if they even attain the qualifying score, that is). So what is the point? Is it to say you have elites in your gym? Is it not better to say you have COMPETITIVE elites? It may all be a battle of semantics, but words do mean something.

I've always found it strange that gyms will tell an athlete that they are too old to pursue a goal, especially considering that Oksana Chusovitina is in her 40s and still learning new skills. It seems like you want your child to be in a program where they are valued and not cast aside. We all want that. You may find that your child gets more attention at a lesser known gym with a vision for growing their program rather than an established, large, strong gym.

It seems the prevailing ideology of USAG is that if you are not level 10/elite by the time you're 12, well, your ship has sailed. It's complete rubbish, but in light of the Larry Nassar mess, I'm inclined to believe this was done intentionally as little girls are 1) taught to not advocate for themselves as that's is a masculine trait, 2) are more malleable and less likely to complain, and 3) are taught not to question authority. Also, I can't help but wonder if the decisions being made are so arbitrary as to be based on age more than talent/ability/work ethic/drive/determination/etc, that families were targeted because they had the biggest stars in their eyes and, thus, were easily manipulated into blindly trusting coaches, gym owners, and the governing organization itself. (Before anyone jumps all over me for that statement, I certainly hope I am wrong--I WANT to be wrong--but in light of the evidence we have, it's difficult to not accept that I may not be far off the mark).

We are at a relatively small, lesser known gym. I could take DD to Dreams or WOGA or any number of powerhouse gyms in the country, but I have deliberately avoided them as I want DD to be more than just a number in a factory. Their vision is to grow their program, but it doesn't seem they are willing to take the amount of time necessary to get there. The argument I would get from coaches if I used Oksana Chusovitina as an example would be as follows: 'Yes, she still remarkably competitive at her advanced age. However, she first became an elite when she was 12/13.'

 

[Deleted member 14190]

I sometimes forget myself and fail to remember Americans have tissue paper for skin. It is possible to be critical of someone and still support them. I wish no ill toward the girls--they are terrific teammates and DD is quite fond of many of them. And yes, I do recognize it is not the girls who are in the wrong, but the coaches. Having said that, none of the girls our gym is testing this season will come close to being competitive at the elite level (if they even attain the qualifying score, that is). So what is the point? Is it to say you have elites in your gym? Is it not better to say you have COMPETITIVE elites? It may all be a battle of semantics, but words do mean something.



It seems the prevailing ideology of USAG is that if you are not level 10/elite by the time you're 12, well, your ship has sailed. It's complete rubbish, but in light of the Larry Nassar mess, I'm inclined to believe this was done intentionally as little girls are 1) taught to not advocate for themselves as that's is a masculine trait, 2) are more malleable and less likely to complain, and 3) are taught not to question authority. Also, I can't help but wonder if the decisions being made are so arbitrary as to be based on age more than talent/ability/work ethic/drive/determination/etc, that families were targeted because they had the biggest stars in their eyes and, thus, were easily manipulated into blindly trusting coaches, gym owners, and the governing organization itself. (Before anyone jumps all over me for that statement, I certainly hope I am wrong--I WANT to be wrong--but in light of the evidence we have, it's difficult to not accept that I may not be far off the mark).

We are at a relatively small, lesser known gym. I could take DD to Dreams or WOGA or any number of powerhouse gyms in the country, but I have deliberately avoided them as I want DD to be more than just a number in a factory. Their vision is to grow their program, but it doesn't seem they are willing to take the amount of time necessary to get there. The argument I would get from coaches if I used Oksana Chusovitina as an example would be as follows: 'Yes, she still remarkably competitive at her advanced age. However, she first became an elite when she was 12/.. 13.'

Ah so now all Americans have tissue paper for skin.... You are obviously ridiculously jealous of these kids.... try not to take it out on them. Thanks

 

[hearts_and_stars]

Jealous of kids who have been set up to fail? I think not.

Jealous of coaches who couldn't care less about draining parents' bank accounts because they lack the patience to wait another year? I think not.

This has nothing to do with the girls arbitrarily chosen to test well before they're ready. It's about finding a gym that is able to properly train ALL their girls to the best of their potential. Clearly, your gym is not one of them because your mentality that no one should be critical of anyone ever would certainly be a set up for failure.

But thanks for your opinion anyway.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Jealous of kids who have been set up to fail? I think not.

Jealous of coaches who couldn't care less about draining parents' bank accounts because they lack the patience to wait another year? I think not.

This has nothing to do with the girls arbitrarily chosen to test well before they're ready. It's about finding a gym that is able to properly train ALL their girls to the best of their potential. Clearly, your gym is not one of them because your mentality that no one should be critical of anyone ever would certainly be a set up for failure.

But thanks for your opinion anyway.

Let's not confuse being critical with being disrespectful to other peoples kids .... which you most certainly are. . Calling anyone a wannabe is disrespectful and not constructive criticism. Get it ?

 

[momnipotent]

Let's not confuse being critical with being disrespectful to other peoples kids .... which you most certainly are. . Calling anyone a wannabe is disrespectful and not constructive criticism. Get it ?

Is it though? When used as an adjective, wannabe means “aspiring or wanting to be a specified type of person.” That is exactly what these girls are-they aspire to be elite gymnasts. I would actually describe my own son as a wannabe elite. He has the potential to get there and that is a goal he has set for himself, but he is probably at least 2-3 years away from achieving this. It’s certainly not a sure thing. I read the OP as a criticism of the coaches, not the athletes. The “you are never going to be good enough to be an elite” or “you are never going to be as good as the girls we have picked to go elite track” attitude can be psychologically damaging to young athletes depending on how it is approached by the coaches.
I think you speak from the perspective of a coach who really cares about all of their athletes (at least from what I’ve seen of you on here) but not all coaches approach their jobs/kids like that and I think that is important to remember. It’s hard when you feel your athlete isn’t getting appropriate coaching for whatever reason, but I imagine it’s especially hard if you feel it’s because of their age or the coaches’ hopes being pinned on some other kids, no matter how wonderful and talented those kids are, if the gym situation pits them against the rest of the team, it is harmful to everyone involved.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Is it though? When used as an adjective, wannabe means “aspiring or wanting to be a specified type of person.” That is exactly what these girls are-they aspire to be elite gymnasts. I would actually describe my own son as a wannabe elite. He has the potential to get there and that is a goal he has set for himself, but he is probably at least 2-3 years away from achieving this. It’s certainly not a sure thing. I read the OP as a criticism of the coaches, not the athletes. The “you are never going to be good enough to be an elite” or “you are never going to be as good as the girls we have picked to go elite track” attitude can be psychologically damaging to young athletes depending on how it is approached by the coaches.
I think you speak from the perspective of a coach who really cares about all of their athletes (at least from what I’ve seen of you on here) but not all coaches approach their jobs/kids like that and I think that is important to remember. It’s hard when you feel your athlete isn’t getting appropriate coaching for whatever reason, but I imagine it’s especially hard if you feel it’s because of their age or the coaches’ hopes being pinned on some other kids, no matter how wonderful and talented those kids are, if the gym situation pits them against the rest of the team, it is harmful to everyone involved.

Wanna be also means..a faker, a poser. Reading the op's post in context, fairly certain she meant that definition, not the "aspiring" one.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Is it though? When used as an adjective, wannabe means “aspiring or wanting to be a specified type of person.” That is exactly what these girls are-they aspire to be elite gymnasts. I would actually describe my own son as a wannabe elite. He has the potential to get there and that is a goal he has set for himself, but he is probably at least 2-3 years away from achieving this. It’s certainly not a sure thing. I read the OP as a criticism of the coaches, not the athletes. The “you are never going to be good enough to be an elite” or “you are never going to be as good as the girls we have picked to go elite track” attitude can be psychologically damaging to young athletes depending on how it is approached by the coaches.
I think you speak from the perspective of a coach who really cares about all of their athletes (at least from what I’ve seen of you on here) but not all coaches approach their jobs/kids like that and I think that is important to remember. It’s hard when you feel your athlete isn’t getting appropriate coaching for whatever reason, but I imagine it’s especially hard if you feel it’s because of their age or the coaches’ hopes being pinned on some other kids, no matter how wonderful and talented those kids are, if the gym situation pits them against the rest of the team, it is harmful to everyone involved.

If I referred to someone else's child as a wannabe gymnast it wouldn't go over well. Lol. You know it . Just like if I referred to you as a wannabe mom . (I am sure you are a great mom). It's disrespectful in these parts and most everywhere I know.

 

[Deedee]

How old is ur dd. Unfortunately age most of the time does have a huge aspect with gymnastics as the older they are the harder for them to acquire the skills they need and if they have hit puberty or closer to hitting puberty and growth spurts this means that ur dd will grow and have to then train her muscles again as she grows. For every inch a gymnast grows it is countless hours of additional strength to keep their bodies to the condition and strength to achieve skills at higher levels. At our gym we have girls training at a earlier age so that it saves them one year for puberty and one year for injury. It is also a lot harder as the older they get the more heavier a person is so this also becomes an aspect the coach needs to Take into consideration as it is harder for a gymnast who is older/heavier to achieve a skill as they have to lift more weight. A lot of “elite “ gyms take in younger gymnasts for this reason and to achieve the best of the best. Which isn’t always right
For everyone. I would suggest just looking for a gym where you gymnast is challenged and pushed and taken care of by the coaches instead of looking for “superb jo gyms” as these aren’t always necessarily the best for each individual.

 

[Deedee]

I’ll also add we put gymnasts through at a younger age so Their gym does not affect their study as much as they get older.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Ah so now all Americans have tissue paper for skin.... You are obviously ridiculously jealous of these kids.... try not to take it out on them. Thanks

Easy there, Coach. I did not read this initial post as so offensive. I read it as a frustrated parent who's been told too often that her daughter is too old to be on level XX, when--as we all know--age really shouldn't matter. Also, the "wanna be" comment I took to mean "girls training elite/girls who want to be elite." Why do you want to turn this into something ugly? It's really not necessary to jump all over her.

And I think I have to agree that Americans, as a whole, are very easily offended about just about everything. Just read a news feed or newspaper.

 

[Deedee]

I

I've always found it strange that gyms will tell an athlete that they are too old to pursue a goal, especially considering that Oksana Chusovitina is in her 40s and still learning new skills. It seems like you want your child to be in a program where they are valued and not cast aside. We all want that. You may find that your child gets more attention at a lesser known gym with a vision for growing their program rather than an established, large, strong gym.

how old was oksana when she started gym. Its not about how many years or how old she is now and still training. Its about picking children at a young age to learn and develop the fundamentals they need prior to puberty or giving a year recovery for injury and even so they have all this under there belt so there not under extra pressure during school exams etc

 

[Texasmomof3]

Maybe you shouldn’t knock a gym based on your assumption of how things will be.

My dd started Gymnastics pretty late. She was an 11 year old level 3. She is now 15, training level 8/9 (undecided if she will repeat 8 or do 9 next season — summer will tell). She is currently TD (one of the gyms you disparaged), having moved there in March.

The gym welcomed her with open arms, old for her level, injured, coming off a crappy season with a broken spirit. In just a couple of months, she is a new person. She is happy again. She talks about how much she loves gym. She is excited about practice. You don’t see how toxic a gym is until you leave it and join a new one.

They very much have room for talented kids at every level. They have 40+ coaches, and she gets far more coaching attention here than at her former, much smaller gym where the focus was one 2-3 girls, with the rest cast aside. She doesn’t get much attention from Kim, because she isn’t elite potential and Kim is one of the elite coaches. But that makes sense, because my daughter is not an elite in the making. (Kim is very warm and welcoming, and does offer coaching pointers to all levels when on the floor, so please don’t read this as a criticism of her.)

But the thing about a gym like TD? There will always be girls better than yours. And they won’t put your dd on a team where she doesn’t belong. So, if you want her to go elite and they don’t think she has the talent, it won’t happen. But they will give her high level training with solid coaches for the level she is and the potential they see in her. My daughter actually has five coaches here: one for conditioning, one for dance, one for floor and beam, one for vault and one for bars. They are each experts in their areas, but also capable of covering other events if need be.

Maybe you shouldn’t rule out gyms based on assumptions. Or maybe it is you.

 

[bogwoppit]

To @hearts_and_stars , the comment "American's have tissue paper for skin", is edging close to getting a warning. We try to avoid name calling here, so please state your case without that kind of thing.

Wannabee is one of those words that can really get people's backs up, we had WW3 break out here some years back over "wannabee elite's", anyone who was around probably flinches at the word.

However I do know that girls at gyms with elites can often feel a bit short changed. In the pre USAG dumpster fire days, the camps were endless and summer meets really cut in to up training for USAG girls. Especially in gyms where there are few coaches qualified to coach the upper optional girls. This definitely causes problems.

 

[Deedee]

Easy there, Coach. I did not read this initial post as so offensive. I read it as a frustrated parent who's been told too often that her daughter is too old to be on level XX, when--as we all know--age really shouldn't matter. Also, the "wanna be" comment I took to mean "girls training elite/girls who want to be elite." Why do you want to turn this into something ugly? It's really not necessary to jump all over her.

And I think I have to agree that Americans, as a whole, are very easily offended about just about everything. Just read a news feed or newspaper.

Unfortunately with gymnastics age does matter with the majority. There is a minority that exceed the realms of gymnastics but that’s why we have competitions where gymnasts are based by age in each level as jnr snr etc. and unfortunately most elite gyms are looking for younger gymnasts to train the fundamentals at a young age before they hit puberty as it is so much harder to train strength and flexibility and artistry if it hasn’t been built from a young age. Like I said there are some children that are able to do this. But In the majority of gymnastics a child training from a younger age is a lot easier to build muscle memory flexibility and strength.

 

[Deedee]

i think ur op post did come off as a bit offensive however may have been due to a parent tired of seeing her child be put out from coaches looking at other gymnasts and focusing on them and loosing focus on her child. However I think most of these replies are trying to get through that you need to not look at impressive jo programs as they may all be looking at the same thing. Younger gymnasts. But looking for a gym that will nurture your child to the potential she can achieve whether that be in a jo program. An Xcel program or anything else which allows her to be challenged more and achieve what she can achieve with the assests she has to achieve.

 

[bogwoppit]

@Deedee can you avoid "text speak", it is one our our rules on the CB. Proper grammar and spelling. Thanks

 

[Deedee]

@Deedee can you avoid "text speak", it is one our our rules on the CB. Proper grammar and spelling. Thanks

*your

 

[bogwoppit]

*your

Thank you!