Parents team struggling - parent needs advice

[gymnastmom05]

The OP stated that coaches were worried that the "majority" of the team may not get the 34 to move on. So there is a mix of girls within the team, some of whom are applying themselves and doing ok with the present coaching. There are teams that are more chatty than others and it can get in the way. This level is the beginning of "getting hard" and it tends to be where you see the distinction between girls wanting to be there more for socialization and those who truly want to be there for gymnastics. This is particularly true if you are in a gym where the coaches are not super strict about who gets on team.

I would want my dd's perspective on the situation first. Then I would want to view practice to see exactly what is happening. Between those two, you should get a good idea of whether the coaches are being truthful about the lack of motivation, too much chatter, etc. It only takes a couple of girls to spark it in the remaining girls, but given that the previous coach is also saying this was an issue last year and that they chose to have a full team meeting instead of bringing in individual girls, I am guessing it is more than 2 or 3.

What to do moving forward would depend on what you find when talking to your dd and viewing practice. If you find it is more of a coaching issue (not enough praise, too much standing around instead of keeping them busy, lack of understanding in how to keep them motivated), then you have a decision to make - approach the coach/owner, find another gym, etc. I would also want to know how previous teams did with the same coaches. If you don't already know, check mymeetscores.com to check previous scores. If previous teams were in the 34/35 below range, then you know where you stand - what type of gym you are at. At that point you have to take all that information and decide whether you are ok staying at that gym or moving on. That would depend on whether your dd is happy there, what are her goals for gymnastics, whether you find the atmosphere coach-toxic or more just a frustration from having too many girls who are less motivated

I completely agree with this. I have a feeling it isn't the entire team but such a large portion that they felt it was best to speak to ALL parents. I mean if they called a meeting with 9 out of 12 parents, wouldn't you wonder why you were left out (assuming your DD isn't part of the problem)? I don't like the fact that they seem to be placing the blame solely on the girls but I have to give them props to call a meeting and addressing the issue. I know there are plenty of people that would appreciate some honesty, especially when there is still time in the season to make things right again. I would be watching practice (and speaking to your DD). I know our gym will have groups of girls (usually grouped by level) that are more "chatty" and less focused than others. My DD is currently in a group with a few girls that are there more to socialize and it's frustrating her beyond belief right now. When my DD was a 9 yr old level 4, I stopped in practice (summer practice, so early in the season) and I witnessed her socializing and playing more than working on her drills. I made it clear to her that if she wants a playdate, I would be more than happy to arrange them but gymnastics is not a 4 hour playdate, multiple times a week. She had a choice but it was too expensive and too much effort on the family if she was going just to socialize.

I think it's time to look into it more with your own eyes and make a decision based on your findings.

 

[gymgal]

All 11 girls received the qualifying score last year to move up to Level 4 and all 11 girls qualified and competed at Level 3 States last year. Therefore, the gym owners definitely had justification for moving all the girls to Level 4.

correct me if I am wrong (I don't have a compulsory gymnast and am only going by what I have heard on CB) but I believe the scores are now different. You need a 34 in level 4 to move up, whereas last year you only needed a 32. That may not seem like much but it is an average of .5 in each event. If the parents don't have this information, they may be questioning why the coaches don't think they can make the qualifying score this year.

 

[Madden3]

How old is your daughter? Is she able to give you a fair and accurate picture of what is happening at practice? Do you watch practice ever? It might help to have more info about what is going on and with who.

I agree with others that it is very unlikely 12 girls are all goof offs and the issue is probably with the coaching. But there are other possibilities that might be contributing.

In our experience with boys team, just a few knuckleheads acting up at practice can become so distracting and frustrating for the coaches that progress (or at least the ability to work conscientiously at practice) of all the kids is harmed. It does not have to be most of the kids or even half.

This is why I am a big proponent of calling the parents and sending kids HOME when they show they are not capable of being respectful and follow the rules after a few warnings. I think this is a good way to handle discipline issues because it both inconveniences the parent and alerts them in real time that their kid is causing an issue. Poor behavior by kids at gym is a problem where the parent's help is needed if there is going to be a solution. The other benefit is that the coach and the other kids are able to work without the trouble maker for the rest of practice. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is when I hear that practice time was lost due to discipline issues. If the coach is disciplining one kid, that coach is not available to spot a kid or watch and correct the skills of a kid who is behaving appropriately. Also, a coach who is focused on handling even one serious discipline issue may lose control of the group of kids who just need a little more structure.

Yes, coaches should maintain discipline, the issue might be with the coaching. On the other hand, kids who do not want to be at the gym any more, or do not want to be there for as long as practice is, who are hungry, tired, or just are very undisciplined or disrespectful kids, can make maintaining discipline difficult even for the best coach. This is why parents need to think about what they can do to help their kid put their best foot forward at practice.

My other thought is that sounds like a lot of girls of a wide range of ages all together, and breaking them up into smaller practice groups that are more age specific at least for some of practice might be helpful? Even if doing this cut back on overall practice hours, if those fewer hours are more productive, it would be worth it.

Also, I think that talking to all the parents rather than the ones with the problem kids is common. It happens at our gym and has happened at our school, scouts, etc. My kids are never involved in the misbehavior (just a fact- not taking credit- they certainly can be dreadfully behaved at home, but out in the world they are good as gold) yet we always get the same blast e-mail or lecture at the parent meeting everyone else gets.

 

[sce]

I did not read the whole thread, but reading the original post gave me lots of concern. For a whole group to not be motivated, (if that is true) it makes me thing that there is a coaching problem, not a kid problem. Also, you listed what they have done to motivate the girls, after they said they've done everything. The whole list was negative. Constant negativity will de-motivate kids. They need fun, challenge and encouragement. Not punishment.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

If this were my child, and it was just 9 months ago, I would ask my self this:

These are kids, young kids. I believe that kids give back what they get. Are these coaches being positive, are they setting high expectations, are they giving good sound technical corrections? If they are the children will respond with positivity and excellence. The coaches need to look within and find the fortitude to be good positive coaches. Coaches are leaders they need to lead. Until the coach can say with honesty that he/she is being a positive, inspiring, and good technical coach it cannot be determined if the kids are doing their part. Good Luck.

This can not be said enough. It is astounding how differently my DD performs for different coaches. At the same gym, in the same week! There's a bunch of factors of course, but the biggest part is that she does more for coaches who expect more. Then the issue of how they motivate the gymnasts slides in second. Every kid is different, and they respond differently to the coaches, but there is only one coach that everyone underperforms for. It's not the kids...it's the coach.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Very interesting, every single reason thatbthe coaches feel the team is not doing well start with "the girls........".

That is a sign of not just poor coaches, but useless coaches. Poor coaches bla,e the gymnasts, and the result is that they can do nothing about it and garner no change. They can't innately change a kid from being lazy, unmotivated, etc. Coaches who look to "blame" themselves or their program, have the ultimate power to succeed, because they can change themselves or their program and make improvements.

What is more their coaching style (and unfortunately the coaching style in many gyms) is actually reinforcing the message.

If you call a kid unmotivated or lazy, it doesn't motivate them, it reinforces the idea in their minds that they are unmotivated or lazy.

When you punish a gymnast for being lazy, it does the exact opposite of motivating them. It drives an innate belief into them that they are lazy gymnasts, kids will continue to act on these innate beliefs.

Kids become motivated and successful, when they believe they are motivated and successful people.

 

[strawberries]

This exactly.

 

[my4buffaloes]

Thank you all for your insight. Indeed, the conversation in the meeting was perplexing; I think most parents were surprised by the feedback. Note, too, Level 4 is not the beginning level in our gym. Eleven out of twelve of the girls competed last year as Level 3s (the 12th young lady transferred from another gym). All 11 girls received the qualifying score last year to move up to Level 4 and all 11 girls qualified and competed at Level 3 States last year. Therefore, the gym owners definitely had justification for moving all the girls to Level 4. My DD cried when I informed her what her coach and gym owners said about her and her teammates. She says that they are working hard. Outside the gym, she is an A student, plays an instrument, and is very self-disciplined with her homework. Thus, I feel she has a good work ethic outside the gym, so I am puzzled why she would not in the gym. Then, again, she is one of the youngest on the team and very social, so I could envision her being one of the more chatty girls on her team. I do hold myself accountable though as she has made some complaints about her coach that I think I need to listen to more carefully. I also agree I need to sit in more practices and question, where needed.
I don't want to be one of those moms who thinks "not my kid" (I think most of the moms were trying not to be defensive in the meeting) but, on the other hand, my gut instinct says something is wrong.

I think you have an excellent game plan and your instincts are right. Problem with 1 kid is likely the kid. Problem with all the kid is likely the coach.

 

[GymMom4]

I agree that if they say that the problem is the entire group then the problem is likely not the girls.

Reading through the OP sets off so many red flags for me since we used to be at a gym where kids were punished for not making skills. The coach didn't question his methods but instead got mad and would send kids to climb the rope, do other conditioning or otherwise belittle, and not because the kid was messing around. He would make fun of kids, compare them to each other and get mad at kids for not having skills he hadn't properly taught.

My daughter was told she was difficult to coach- we switched gyms a while back and it was fun to watch her prove him wrong about that as she competed in a meet session with him watching closely.

When coach and owners are blaming the kids instead of taking responsibility for deficiencies it's maybe time to look for a new gym. We did and haven't looked back. Dd is making good progress and is happy. Change can be hard or uncomfortable but sometimes it's necessary.

 

[Sasha]

I agree to watch practice yourself to be sure it isn't a case of a couple knuckleheads as someone else mentioned, but...

This screams "coaches lack skills" to me. It doesn't mean the coaches are bad people, or that they don't have some decent technical coaching ability. They probably do. But I have seen talented, motivated, engaged kids - and whole groups of kids - slowly degrade (boiling frog analogy works here) into a group of kids that appears to lack drive and are seeing their skills either hit a wall, or even slip away. Coaches are frustrated at kids, who are frustrated at themselves, and coach's basic toolkit (often punishing) is exhausted, so nothing is working, and it's a vicious downward cycle. These type of coaches just can't get the whole training package together as kids journey into more advanced skills that require a more advanced mindset (more "marathon" and ability to see value in endless repetition to learn harder skills past very early levels). They can work with a 'perfect' kid, but NO kid is perfect, and EVERY kid will struggle and have bad days. How these are dealt with, along with how 100 other things that great coaches subtly deal with daily are handled, will make or break even the most trainable, enthusiastic kid.

I have seen my own athletes now with a number of different coaches. With some they are incredible and I've been shocked at how coaches brought out such a high level of performance (and joy!) with them (doesn't mean the great coaches were simply more upbeat or any less serious - they just had better coaching skills no matter their own style) . With others, they have been on the verge of quitting every day. All were nice people whom I believe were genuinely trying their own best to coach, and in their minds, were doing all they could and all the right things. The coaches who lacked skills were the ones telling me that my children (among others) were either unmotivated or untalented or both (true story).

The coach makes ALL the difference, truly. If you have a whole team of kids hitting a significant training wall, especially at a pretty early level still, that is telling.

 

[duyetanh]

I did not read the whole thread, but reading the original post gave me lots of concern. For a whole group to not be motivated, (if that is true) it makes me thing that there is a coaching problem, not a kid problem. Also, you listed what they have done to motivate the girls, after they said they've done everything. The whole list was negative. Constant negativity will de-motivate kids. They need fun, challenge and encouragement. Not punishment.

Negative reinforcement only reinforces negativity in terms of how the children view the sport. Its just wrong.

 

[LGnyc]

It also sounds to me like these coaches don't know how to reach children - and even with an upper range of 13, these are still young girls. They have done nothing to motivate them in a positive way. Dd's coaches are far from perfect but they still recognize the power of a good gym game, playful competitions, things to make practice FUN. These kids are voluntarily giving up so much time to be in the gym. it's supposed to be fun and pleasurable, not constant harangues.