WAG Texas Dreams vs WOGA and Metroplex

[gasrgoose]

Perhaps another angle to look at...how many athletes were attracted to one of these gyms but then moved on to another gym? Dig beneath the covers...you may be surprised at what you find.

While I'm sure this is true, they have also taken gymnasts who were under performing at other gyms and developed them into top level Elite gymnasts.

IMO WOGA and Texas Dreams clearly have superior Elite programs. But the Elite world is so so hard and takes the complete package to realize the dream. I don't evaluate a gym very much by their elite success or lack of success. It just takes too perfect of a scenario to even qualify elite, much less compete with the best.

My analogy would be it's kinda like deciding to by a Ford or Dodge car because they are winning more NASCAR races. Sure they are they are the same company but does it really have any bearing on what you are purchasing?

But so many people (I'm included) think their daughter is going to qualify, that it becomes a major factor.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Our elites (in my state) are generally outstanding students, they do very well in school despite spending significantly less hours in the classroom than their peers. The type of child who is successful as an elite gymnast is intelligent, diligent, hard working, organised and dedicated. The same traits tend to allow them to excel academically.

 

[GymmieC]

Doesn't a good elite program know how to steer their gymnasts effectively? I would hope that the gym who trains elite also knows how to effectively train the girl/boy just as good in JO as they would elite. So many elites go back and forth don't they? MG Elites Ariana A is falling back to 10 this season as Delaney from Twistars...I'm sure closer to 2020 they may pick it back up...However, I do know of a gym training level 5s at 30+ hr IMHO all to win and tout State sweeps...this gym unfortunately has far too many girls injured and re-injured because they don't allow for proper healing to occur.

 

[munchkin3]

I truly believe that 95% of these athletes are REALLY good and talented gymnasts, (my daughter included) and will never make it to level 10 etc. But there is a BIG difference between the real elite athlete that can balance school, training hours that are realistic and not excessive, and somehow have the physical stamina and stay healthy......they were born for it. I have seen these kind of kids. Even so, the chances that they make it on the national team are super slim.
I certainly hope that these kids don't take college gymnastics as second best.
So the question is, taking your 'talented' kid to WOGA or TD will it convert them into an ELITE kind of kid? I don't think so......Ragan Smith was awesome already when she got to TD, so was Simone, and Norah....etc.....
My 10 yo L7 is not elite material.....she wants to win, and have friends, and go to school..........but she has a decent chance to make it to college gymnastics, the same as most on here. However I realize the chances of her quitting, or getting injured, is WAAAYYYY Higher. The importance for expectation management, and keeping her happy, balanced and healthy......If I took her to a WOGA or such, not only do I know that she may not be 'good' enough for them, she would quit with the intensity. I'm not saying that the big gyms don't believe in JO programs, they just are very hard to get into and are very serious.
I have always said, I do not envy the parents with gymnast prodigies on their hands....the sacrifice is huge, yet it cannot be passed up.

 

[builtas1]

TD had some "interesting" coaching changes in the last year and a half...from the departure of the long-time coaches of their 2-a-day L10 JO practice group (and the practical demise of that group) to changes in their Dream Team coaching (elite vs JO).

But let's not focus solely on them. This is Texas youth sports, afterall. All of the top performing gyms are working to establish and maintain a reputation. They will not advance (try out for elite, promote for college recruiting) an athlete who makes them look bad.

Don't know how old your kids are, but one thing to seriously focus on is the track record of a gym for developing gymnasts from compulsory to early optional to later optional levels. Are all the L10s home-grown or did they come from somewhere else? And if somewhere else, is there a pattern? When gymnasts at upper levels leave, was it due to injury or did they go to another gym? Find out how the gym manages injuries (IMO, none do a good job).

--------------------------------------------------------
I totally agree with you regarding the home-grown history of the gymnast. We are in a good gym but the remaining gymnast (if there's any in L9/L10) is 1 or 2 out of 25-30 girls. It is very sad, and it is not due to injury.

That's really the reason why we are looking for a potential move anywhere in the States.

 

[munchkin3]

It becomes so mental after 12/13 yo and L8 and up.....there is SOOOOOO much psychology involved and you have to have a superior coach in both the technique and mental side.

 

[AWOL]

I know that going to a gym with a good elite program can make a big difference.
Our gym has never produced an elite or collage gymnist but one of the girls went to a gym with a good elite program when she was a L6 and is now on the Junior National Team.

 

[builtas1]

I truly believe that 95% of these athletes are REALLY good and talented gymnasts, (my daughter included) and will never make it to level 10 etc. But there is a BIG difference between the real elite athlete that can balance school, training hours that are realistic and not excessive, and somehow have the physical stamina and stay healthy......they were born for it. I have seen these kind of kids. Even so, the chances that they make it on the national team are super slim.
I certainly hope that these kids don't take college gymnastics as second best.
So the question is, taking your 'talented' kid to WOGA or TD will it convert them into an ELITE kind of kid? I don't think so......Ragan Smith was awesome already when she got to TD, so was Simone, and Norah....etc.....
My 10 yo L7 is not elite material.....she wants to win, and have friends, and go to school..........but she has a decent chance to make it to college gymnastics, the same as most on here. However I realize the chances of her quitting, or getting injured, is WAAAYYYY Higher. The importance for expectation management, and keeping her happy, balanced and healthy......If I took her to a WOGA or such, not only do I know that she may not be 'good' enough for them, she would quit with the intensity. I'm not saying that the big gyms don't believe in JO programs, they just are very hard to get into and are very serious.
I have always said, I do not envy the parents with gymnast prodigies on their hands....the sacrifice is huge, yet it cannot be passed up.

I wouldn't rule out any future for your daughter. Having multiple gymnasts in the family and having moved up to the higher optional level, I also had doubts about one of daughters in the past. There's is just so much to offer outside of gymnastics and so little to keep her away from injury or fear. All I did and still do is just to take one-day-at-a-time. It's just that the upper level coaches barely compliments and always plays the blaming game (even though the injuries might not be their fault). I don't need my younger kids to have to go through the same unhappiness.

 

[builtas1]

I am always impressed by a gym where a large majority of a strong L10 team is home grown and where the attrition seems relatively low from lower levels going up. If I were seriously scouting a couple of gyms, I'd also go back and look at the L4/L5 teams from four to six years ago and see how many of them stuck around and moved forward at a steady pace.

Yep, agree. Will do. That's one thing my gym doesn't have-the continuity of gymnasts from L4 to L10.

 

[builtas1]

We have both at our gym -- Elites as well as the standard JO to L10 then college track. Several of the Elites have decided to drop back to L10 at a certain point. It is so tough to make Elite, stay healthy, keep your skills AND go to school. I also find it interesting that none of the Elites at our gym are homeschooled. All of them go to a regular school at least part-time and then homeschool certain subjects (whatever they miss due to early release). I think that catches up to you at a certain point...chronic exhaustion doesn't allow for your body to recover from a general workout and heal from injuries as well or as quickly as it should. It's a very tough road.

I don't blame the gymnasts to go back-and-forth. Elites travels a lot and these gymnasts are still kids not professional circus performers (or professional anything). They need time to relax and recover.

 

[builtas1]

These gyms have reputations for putting girls on national stages, esp. TD and WOGA. They attract a LOT of athletes trying to up their game, not only from other gyms but also out of state.

Try this exercise: Go to mymeetscores.com. Search for these gyms. Scroll down and look at the list of Gymnasts and click on "Latest Meet" so you can see who's competed in the most recent meet (JO Nationals for L10). Click on individual Gymnast names to see their competition history and the clubs they competed for. Caveat 1: MMS database is erratic. Many gymnasts have multiple entries so you won't see all of their meets in one click (you'll have to search by each gymnast's name). Caveat 2: All 3 of these gyms have L10 gymnasts who did NOT compete at JO Nats for various reasons (injury, moving into elite, etc). You'll need to dig further to find these. Have fun...the results are interesting and I leave interpretation up to you.

Yes, I am always intrigued by the finding of MMS. It's an interesting read, and of course, need to dig deeper, like you mentioned. But I was wondering about if anyone has any comparison of these 3 gyms (or more if you can provide) on the upper level coaching style, injury-recovery support (rehab/clinic) and the long term goals.

 

[builtas1]

While I'm sure this is true, they have also taken gymnasts who were under performing at other gyms and developed them into top level Elite gymnasts.

IMO WOGA and Texas Dreams clearly have superior Elite programs. But the Elite world is so so hard and takes the complete package to realize the dream. I don't evaluate a gym very much by their elite success or lack of success. It just takes too perfect of a scenario to even qualify elite, much less compete with the best.

My analogy would be it's kinda like deciding to by a Ford or Dodge car because they are winning more NASCAR races. Sure they are they are the same company but does it really have any bearing on what you are purchasing?

But so many people (I'm included) think their daughter is going to qualify, that it becomes a major factor.

Well, like one of the posting mentioned, the gymnasts do move back-and-forth from Elite to L10 sometimes. I probably would prefer a gym that has both strong Elite and L10 in case one of my kids can't/don't want to try Elite.

 

[Seeker]

Well, like one of the posting mentioned, the gymnasts do move back-and-forth from Elite to L10 sometimes. I probably would prefer a gym that has both strong Elite and L10 in case one of my kids can't/don't want to try Elite.

Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't mean they moved back and forth (you quoted my post above) -- I said that some Elites dropped back down to L10. This is usually a one-way move, generally back to L10 as they're preparing to leave for college. Many compete the last season as L10 in order to maintain skills and a healthy body before college gym. Sometimes younger girls decide not to continue to pursue elite and drop back to JO. There have been no cases as long as we have been at this gym where a gymnast has gone back and forth from Elite-JO-Elite.

 

[builtas1]

Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't mean they moved back and forth (you quoted my post above) -- I said that some Elites dropped back down to L10. This is usually a one-way move, generally back to L10 as they're preparing to leave for college. Many compete the last season as L10 in order to maintain skills and a healthy body before college gym. Sometimes younger girls decide not to continue to pursue elite and drop back to JO. There have been no cases as long as we have been at this gym where a gymnast has gone back and forth from Elite-JO-Elite.

I was typing too fast and generalized the the term "back-an- forth". I am glad you clarified it and I concur with you.

 

[munchkin3]

I wouldn't rule out any future for your daughter. Having multiple gymnasts in the family and having moved up to the higher optional level, I also had doubts about one of daughters in the past. There's is just so much to offer outside of gymnastics and so little to keep her away from injury or fear. All I did and still do is just to take one-day-at-a-time. It's just that the upper level coaches barely compliments and always plays the blaming game (even though the injuries might not be their fault). I don't need my younger kids to have to go through the same unhappiness.

I don't rule out anything....I have always told my kids they are lucky to have our support. I am just realistic, not negative, just realistic......I would love nothing more for my DD to go for her dreams, whatever they are.
Gym switching is common and does not really mean anything. I had to switch when DD was little because she was ready of a little more.....then I just switched now because she was ready to go for it....mind you, within my area, and within my budget we have done what we could to accommodate her.....I'm not moving OR driving an hour each way.....no way Jose.
But don't judge moving gyms because each gym has their forte.....some are good at the higher levels but stink at compulsory, and vice versa......I laughed hard when someone told a friend of mine that my DD is a gym 'hopper'!!! LOL she was 5 yo in pre team at one gym......then went to a YMCA......then finally at 10, she proved that she was into it and loving it, so we went to a big fancy hard gym.......this is what is good for US............I will change my name to hopper.....

 

[sce]

..........I will change my name to hopper.....

munchkinhopper!

It would be different if you tried a gym and then a few months later moved to another and then a year later....

 

[MILgymFAM]

munchkinhopper!

It would be different if you tried a gym and then a few months later moved to another and then a year later....

And sometimes even that can't be helped. My DD switched gyms last summer because we did a long distance move. Then a month later we moved her again because we had unaddressed safety concerns at the new gym. Finally we moved her again in May because she wanted to switch streams (into JO) and her old gym wouldn't have allowed it (ever). She will switch again, at least one more time, as we will long distance move again in a year or so. Since there can be growing pains with big moves, and maybe the first gym won't be the right one- again.. Etc.. Just because a girl hasn't been static, doesn't mean that there is a big underlying issue- even though I understand why that's the assumption.

 

[sce]

. Just because a girl hasn't been static, doesn't mean that there is a big underlying issue- even though I understand why that's the assumption.

There are always exceptions in anything.

 

[LemonLime]

The gyms you mention have very different tracks within the same gym so it depends on what track you are invited to join.

If you are invited to one of the Dream Team groups, then you will be mostly (or all) coached by Kim and will be headed for successful elite. 85% of gymnasts are not coached on this track at Texas Dreams. Most of the gymnasts that place very well in national competitions are on the Dream Team. In the past four years, I think three or so gymnasts in the JO-track program were moved to the Dream Team program. Usually you join DT when you join the gym. There is a Dream Team 10 group, but most of those gymnasts (but not all) trained elite on Dream Team in the past.

Up until recently, there wasn't truly an "elite" group at Woga. Valeri had his groups and Laurent had his groups. Now, the elites train together with Laurent and I think there are four gymnasts in that group. Valeri works with USAG.

I believe all of the 10s and elites at Metroplex are coached by Marnie and Gina, but not the lower levels. There is a small 2-a-day group (by invitation only) where most of the hopes/elites train. Metroplex has a very deep and successful Level 10 program and Marnie and Gina have been successful at Level 10 for maybe ten years (going back to when they were the JO head coaches at Dreams).

The good news is that all of these teams allow you to go to "real" school. Texas public schools are very flexible and all the gyms have kids at every level attending great public schools.

 

[LemonLime]

I think Dreams, Metroplex, and Dynamo (OKC) have been winning region 3 gym of the year recently. Stars in Houston also has gymnasts who are successful at every level.