WAG The culture of abuse is still existing

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Just saw this. Of course I knew this happened, but it suddenly came really close. Breaks my heart this is normal practice...

 

[MILgymFAM]

Awful! The worst part is she is defending him and wanting him to stay as her coach. What are we doing to kids that they have fallen into believing this is ok, better than ok- the way it should be?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

This is not the US. Not right, but not the US. Cultural differences across the board, not just gymnastics.

This is why I’m happy to live here in the US.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

If she is defending him, they should both be banned until she receives psychological counseling and has a new coach. As far as I am concerned he should be in jail for assault. She needs protection and guidance to truly understand what she is being subjected to. How awful.

 

[twinmomma]

This is not the US. Not right, but not the US. Cultural differences across the board, not just gymnastics.

This is why I’m happy to live here in the US.

IOC should come into play or FIG should it not? Abuse of minor athletes should not be acceptable period, regardless of country or culture.

Interestingly, I sat at my daughter's practice last night (she's acro now) and watched the level 3 and 4 gymnasts working on vault with a coach I actually really like. He seems well liked by the girls and knows his stuff. But there was an edge in his tone with them - very little encouragement, much more critique than what we learn as adult managers of people (compliment, critique, compliment), and I had an overwhelming sense of gratitude for my daughter's acro coaches. There's always smiles, laughter, hands on assistance, explanations, and compassion. I'm not sure where my daughter's gymnastics journey is going or even if she'll end up even any good at acro. But she's happy, she's healthy, and most of all, she's safe.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

FIG should ban this coach from FIG competitions. Just horrible.

There is abuse in every culture. Let's not justify this by saying that cultures are different. The thing is that the international culture of gymnastics is broken and allows way too much of mistreatment of kids. This is not the first time I have seen or heard a coach slap a gymnast.Sadly, it can happen everywhere.

One day I was just randomly surfing on Youtube and came across with this video, where young and very talented little (Russian) kids are in a gymnastics competition. And just out of blue, a coach slaps this little girl (according to the title of the video 5-7 year old) hard when she struggles to get her upper body up in her pull over. She didn't even try to verbally correct her first. It was shocking.


(The slap happens at 0.59)

The thing is that as long as any country, any coach is allowed to use abusive coaching methods, others are going to follow. Sadly, sometimes abusive methods can result more quickly outstanding gymnastics results and win more easily than more human methods. And as long as the coaches think that they just need to keep up with the others, they are going to do what ever it takes, anywhere in the world. I don't mean every coach, but there are definitely coaches that are more than capable in every part of the world. The system needs to protect the kids from getting shattered, crushed and brutally destroyed in the process. This needs FIG, every country and every gymnastics federation around the world to participate and do their bit.

 

[bogwoppit]

This is not the US. Not right, but not the US. Cultural differences across the board, not just gymnastics.

This is why I’m happy to live here in the US.

Coaching in the US requires no training or background checks. Why would you be happy with that?

The US system allows abusers to continue to coach from state to state, why would you be happy with that?

Coach training and background checks should be the bare minimum.

 

[skschlag]

Coaching in the US requires no training or background checks. Why would you be happy with that?

The US system allows abusers to continue to coach from state to state, why would you be happy with that?

Coach training and background checks should be the bare minimum.

Coaching does require background checks. There are certain classes they have to take, although none are directly related to coaching. D had to take 3 online classes before he could coach, take CPR/FA. He was 15 so did not have to do a background check, although now at 16, he would have to. It is definitely not the structure that I have heard of in other countries, however. That would be nice.

ETA: Most of this is related to the professional USAG certificate required to be at meets Some gyms can skirt this by just not having that coach at meets. We have not been at a gym like that. All 5 gyms D has trained/currently trains at require professional certificates for any coach on the floor.

 

[LJL07]

This is not the US. Not right, but not the US. Cultural differences across the board, not just gymnastics.

This is why I’m happy to live here in the US.

I’m sorry to say that equally terrible things happen at gyms in the US. I have seen it with my own eyes. It really makes me appreciate the good coaches that are out there. I hope more people will be willing to report physical and psychological abuse so the whole gymnastics culture will start to shift.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Coaching does require background checks. There are certain classes they have to take, although none are directly related to coaching. D had to take 3 online classes before he could coach, take CPR/FA. He was 15 so did not have to do a background check, although now at 16, he would have to. It is definitely not the structure that I have heard of in other countries, however. That would be nice.

ETA: Most of this is related to the professional USAG certificate required to be at meets Some gyms can skirt this by just not having that coach at meets. We have not been at a gym like that. All 5 gyms D has trained/currently trains at require professional certificates for any coach on the floor.

Coaching on the floor at meets requires a background check and training. Coaching rec classes, or even coaching a team but not attending meets, has zero requirements whatsoever.

 

[skschlag]

Coaching on the floor at meets requires a background check and training. Coaching rec classes, or even coaching a team but not attending meets, has zero requirements whatsoever.

Right. I edited and added that. However, every gym we have been at has required the background check and courses to coach even the most beginning classes.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

]

Coaching in the US requires no training or background checks. Why would you be happy with that?

The US system allows abusers to continue to coach from state to state, why would you be happy with that?

Coach training and background checks should be the bare minimum.

I was speaking about western culture vs eastern culture, not gymnastics.

Yes I’m very happy to live here in the West/US. Where culturally as a society I was raised it’s Ok to not blindly accept things as they are. Where that type of discipline is not the norm, these days.

Gymnastics specific. Again, I’m happy to live in a place where that would never happen to my kid. We would of moved on long before it ever got that far

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I’m sorry to say that equally terrible things happen at gyms in the US. I have seen it with my own eyes. It really makes me appreciate the good coaches that are out there. I hope more people will be willing to report physical and psychological abuse so the whole gymnastics culture will start to shift.

Yes I understand that happens here. And again happy to live where this is not culturally ingrained as normal. That would not be anything that would happen to my kid. We would be long gone before it ever got that far.

And it actually boggles my mind that as this is not culturally part of our daily lives. No, seriously it’s not. If teachers did what these abusive coaches do, parents would be up in arms in a NY minute. It simply would not be tolerated of teachers. So that parents accept that from coaches truly stuns me.

The change that needs to happen is for parents to say sorry, we are not accepting this behavior. We don’t care how many banners and trophies you have. It means saying sorry child of mine your long term mental physical and emotional well being is worth more a few years of gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

IOC should come into play or FIG should it not? Abuse of minor athletes should not be acceptable period, regardless of country or culture.

Interestingly, I sat at my daughter's practice last night (she's acro now) and watched the level 3 and 4 gymnasts working on vault with a coach I actually really like. He seems well liked by the girls and knows his stuff. But there was an edge in his tone with them - very little encouragement, much more critique than what we learn as adult managers of people (compliment, critique, compliment), and I had an overwhelming sense of gratitude for my daughter's acro coaches. There's always smiles, laughter, hands on assistance, explanations, and compassion. I'm not sure where my daughter's gymnastics journey is going or even if she'll end up even any good at acro. But she's happy, she's healthy, and most of all, she's safe.

Actually before IOC, FIG, USAG it starts with parents. The ones paying the bills. The parents need to speak with their checkbooks and not stay at gyms and with coaches that are abusive

 

[LJL07]

Yes I understand that happens here. And again happy to live where this is not culturally ingrained as normal. That would not be anything that would happen to my kid. We would be long gone before it ever got that far.

And it actually boggles my mind that as this is not culturally part of our daily lives. No, seriously it’s not. If teachers did what these abusive coaches do, parents would be up in arms in a NY minute. It simply would not be tolerated of teachers. So that parents accept that from coaches truly stuns me.

The change that needs to happen is for parents to say sorry, we are not accepting this behavior. We don’t care how many banners and trophies you have. It means saying sorry child of mine your long term mental physical and emotional well being is worth more a few years of gymnastics.

You are so right that it would never be tolerated in a school, yet it is tolerated time and again in a gym. I have seen good parents get sucked in—it’s a brainwashing of sorts. The kids are winning. Everything is great. I really hope that as more if this type of coaching is reported to USAG and Safe Sport they will actually DO something about the reports.

 

[profmom]

Um, if "US culture" were so fabulously awesome and protective, Twistars would not ever have become a top gym. Just sayin'. LDW, it's great that you have the amazing ability to recognize the least whiff of abusive coaching from miles away and would be totally gone before anything bad happened, but an awful lot of smart parents who "trusted their radars" in this country have very damaged kids to show for it. And I am not talking about Nassar's victims.

I've been thinking about this a whole lot lately, and part of the problem in the US is that pretty much the only kind of abuse that can get a coach banned is sexual misconduct, usually involving a conviction or guilty plea. Basically we are on a monster hunt, and we have a hard time recognizing monsters, because we expect them to be rare and exceptional. We thereby blind ourselves to the damaging stuff that's right under our noses.

Teenage athletes have no meaningful agency and are not expected to exercise any judgment; it's up to the parents to see when lines are crossed and call out the wrongs. If athletes recognize that being tagged as complainers will cut against their ambitions, what do you expect them to do? And if the parents become totally invested in their child's successes, how far will they push their child to suck it up, work hard, and keep going? If the parent-athlete-coach triad is functioning, things can be fine, but the athlete leg is in far too many cases just an object.

One real value of this community is that it pushes back by encouraging parents to listen to their kids and let their kids lead.

Finally, to quote Battlestar Galactica, "all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again" . . . unless the culture changes. Not just the laws, the policies, the introduction of shiny new programs like SafeSport. The culture itself.
http://old.seattletimes.com/news/local/coaches/

 

[LJL07]

Um, if "US culture" were so fabulously awesome and protective, Twistars would not ever have become a top gym. Just sayin'. LDW, it's great that you have the amazing ability to recognize the least whiff of abusive coaching from miles away and would be totally gone before anything bad happened, but an awful lot of smart parents who "trusted their radars" in this country have very damaged kids to show for it. And I am not talking about Nassar's victims.

I've been thinking about this a whole lot lately, and part of the problem in the US is that pretty much the only kind of abuse that can get a coach banned is sexual misconduct, usually involving a conviction or guilty plea. Basically we are on a monster hunt, and we have a hard time recognizing monsters, because we expect them to be rare and exceptional. We thereby blind ourselves to the damaging stuff that's right under our noses.

Teenage athletes have no meaningful agency and are not expected to exercise any judgment; it's up to the parents to see when lines are crossed and call out the wrongs. If athletes recognize that being tagged as complainers will cut against their ambitions, what do you expect them to do? And if the parents become totally invested in their child's successes, how far will they push their child to suck it up, work hard, and keep going? If the parent-athlete-coach triad is functioning, things can be fine, but the athlete leg is in far too many cases just an object.

One real value of this community is that it pushes back by encouraging parents to listen to their kids and let their kids lead.

Finally, to quote Battlestar Galactica, "all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again" . . . unless the culture changes. Not just the laws, the policies, the introduction of shiny new programs like SafeSport. The culture itself.
http://old.seattletimes.com/news/local/coaches/

A thousand times yes. We had good parents at our gym. It really is sort of like getting sucked into a cult. There are plenty of well-educated, very attentive parents who made excuses or wrote it off as “not that bad” because again, their kids were winning and were “on top.” My biggest worry now is that safesport will either continue to blow off these reports or not give the reports their due diligence and appropriate penalties. I haven’t been following closely, but I wonder if the coach at Everest had to attend counseling or some kind of education. I certainly hope so.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Um, if "US culture" were so fabulously awesome and protective/

I never said our culture was protective. Don’t put words in my mouth. I said our culture does not encourage blind acceptance.

And I’m sorry I don’t believe an awful lot of parents “trusted their radar”. In fact part of the problem is the internal alarms were dismissed because of the over investment of the child’s success in the sport.

As parents we need to be more invested in the long term physical, mental and emotional well being of our kids then in their athletic success.

Until that happens the culture will not change.

A couple of my favorite quotes.

What you allow will continue

And from Maya

When people show you who they are believe them. The first time.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

There are plenty of well-educated, very attentive parents who made excuses or wrote it off as “not that bad” because again, their kids were winning and were “on top.”.

You consider that good parenting?? Knowing something wasn’t right, but excused it.? Choosing winning over the best long interests of the child?

Would those parents accept that of their kids teacher? If they were getting all A’s. Likely not. They would likely say better a happy B or C kid then a miserable A kid. And if they were OK with their kid being mistreated for an A. I’m sure you wouldn’t consider them attentive.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

You consider that good parenting?? Knowing something wasn’t right, but excused it.? Choosing winning over the best long interests of the child?

Would those parents accept that of their kids teacher? If they were getting all A’s. Likely not. They would likely say better a happy B or C kid then a miserable A kid. And if they were OK with their kid being mistreated for an A. I’m sure you wouldn’t consider them attentive.

Based on my 15 years experience working with kids (and parents), my opinion of the average parent is apparently significantly lower than yours.