Parents Toe hect/ toe shoot

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Gymmom2020

Proud Parent
What Info do you know about toe shoots /hect for L8 bar routine and what value skill they are?
What would a routine look like with one?
 
Is a pirouette a C as well? And why can’t I find any L8 routines online with a toe shoot?
Yes, the pirouette is a C. The toe shoot/catch is a release (transition) and is "harder" to learn/perform cleanly by most gymnasts so the pirouette is a "safer" choice. Also, the pirouette is a foundational skill that can be built on in later levels.
 
The toe hecht almost always incurs more deductions than a pirouette, so you don't see it as often.
 
Kids also struggle to connect a long kip to the toe hecht. It is a timing thing, if they don’t wait long enough to put their feet on the bar, they will hit the high bar at the wrong angle, and it’s common to see them really to get their kip out of it. Costing big deductions and affecting the flow of the routine.
 
Especially with the bars being set wider than FIG in the US to make giants easier, catching with enough counter rotation to kip cast handatand is difficult. You see them quite regularly in Australia with the bars limited to FIG settings.
 
You do see them regularly in Australia, but seeing them done well is not so common.
 
Nothing to add other than this skill is so hard for my very short daughters who do bars on the wide apart “college” setting.
 
It's done most often by Hopes/Elite to avoid the deduction for doing a squat on and newer L10s that use it as their 2nd release.
 
Why do you think they would have my daughter doing it for her L8 routine instead of her pirouette? She is on the wide setting . She has both so and the coach told her her pirouette is really strong.
 
Why do you think they would have my daughter doing it for her L8 routine instead of her pirouette? She is on the wide setting . She has both so and the coach told her her pirouette is really strong.
Would have to ask the coach. Is she training elite? Is she looking towards D1 gymnastics? May be the reason. Could be that she will have both in L9 and this gives her practice. Could be that the routine is better with one vs the other
 
Are you the same poster who asked about the straddle back on level 8? Your gym seems to have a different method or approach to bars coaching. A toe hecht is not typically used on level 8, although that isn't to say it can't be used. It's just kind of a risky move for level 8 and particularly if the bars are set far apart. If elite is the goal as someone above mentioned, why would they not be using a FIG setting? A straddle back is not typically used on level 8 either. I honestly don't understand your gym's rationale (not mean in a snarky tone), so it would probably be helpful if a coach could weigh in on this question.
 
Are you the same poster who asked about the straddle back on level 8? Your gym seems to have a different method or approach to bars coaching. A toe hecht is not typically used on level 8, although that isn't to say it can't be used. It's just kind of a risky move for level 8 and particularly if the bars are set far apart. If elite is the goal as someone above mentioned, why would they not be using a FIG setting? A straddle back is not typically used on level 8 either. I honestly don't understand your gym's rationale (not mean in a snarky tone), so it would probably be helpful if a coach could weigh in on this question.
Yes. I’m not understanding it either. I did ask why and so did my daughter and all she said was well we have bigger plans for her and for me to look up a L8 routine online. Then she spouted off a bunch of stuff they wanted her to learn for L9 and 10., I am unable to find one online that Has it in L8. I can find level 10’s with it, but that doesn’t show me what her level 8 will look like.
 
Yes. I’m not understanding it either. I did ask why and so did my daughter and all she said was well we have bigger plans for her and for me to look up a L8 routine online. Then she spouted off a bunch of stuff they wanted her to learn for L9 and 10., I am unable to find one online that Has it in L8. I can find level 10’s with it, but that doesn’t show me what her level 8 will look like.
You are unable to find one online because there are so few routines with those skills on level 8. My youngest daughter is a level 8 for this upcoming season. Her bar routine is half pirouette, pike on, jump to high bar, kip cast handstand, free hip handstand, giant, giant, and either a layout flyaway or double back dismount. She is working on both. Her sister also did this same routine on level 8. I have seen girls on level 8 use different circling skills including a toe hand or stalder hand, but I have honestly never seen a straddle back or toe hecht on level 8 at any meets including regionals. I have seen both of those skills on level 9. I try not to talk to the coaches unless necessary, but this is kind of unusual, and I would definitely have my daughter ask and if she got nowhere, then I would ask.
 
They told her her routine would be kip cast handstand , toe hand, toe shoot, kip cast handstand, giant , giant and either fly away or double. So I know the routine , just don’t know what it looks like visually. Like I said we did ask and I didn’t want to ask again and look like a complete moron. LOL. So that’s why I asked here to see if anyone possibly knew. I don’t understand why they would give her a toe shoot if it acquires more deductions when she already had her routine down with a pirouette. Once she got the toe shoot they said ok now your doing that instead , so she’s practicing both, but her full routines are with the toe shoot . They told her she would not be doing the toe shoot for L9 because she’s training the Maloney and shoot over. But then again I’m not an expert on gymnastics so I could have things confused. I guess the best thing to do is ask.
 
I wouldn't say that toe shoots incur more deductions than pirouettes, but they are often harder to do therefore are done poorly more often that pirouettes. If your daughter has a strong enough toe shoot...which if she is able to do a toe hand then I imagine her toe shoot is pretty good, then I wouldn't be too worried about the deductions. Toe hand to toe shoot is bonus at L9, so that combination might be part of their long term plan as well, or any connection from the toe hand or connection to the toe shoot.
 

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