Trouble on Vault

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BachFlyer

Proud Parent
Hi everyone ~
My dd has been working on the beginning part of her Yerchenko vault for L8 for a long time, at least a year or so. She has just started to flip the tuck on the back a few weeks ago. I think what she has been doing up until a few weeks ago has been a “timerâ€￾ or something like that, and lots and lots of drills.

She came home very upset and frustrated the other night because she is having a hard time landing the tuck - she keeps landing on her knees over and over. She was crying, which is very unusual for her, and it took quite a while to calm her down. She is concerned that she won’t learn it and won’t be able to move to L8 this season because the vault is the only thing she can’t do. Since I have no clue what learning this would entail, I told her that is seems like she is being very hard on herself and that she hasn’t been working on it very long so it seems a little unrealistic that she would be able to land it perfectly in only a few weeks. She is 10 and this will only be her 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] year of competition, so I also told her that she has learned a ton of skills very quickly and there is no reason to assume that she will never learn this skill, but it could take time. I told her it’s totally fine in my mind if she competes a few L7 meets, or even another whole season and to be a little more patient with herself.

But as much as I don’t care if she competes L8, I DO care about her safety. As we were talking about it, she said that the coach only spotted her a few times on the first day she tried it. She said he keeps saying she is “throwing her head backâ€￾ and that’s all he really says. She knows she’s doing this, but couldn’t really tell me why, or what she should do to correct this (except for to stop doing it). It seems like they spent so much time teaching her the front half, and doing drill after drill after drill, so it seems concerning to me they have so little to offer on the back half. Is this normal? :confused: I guess it is my opinion, but our gym is not great at vault on average. Lots of girls say that the coach just tells them the same thing over and over again, but they don’t really understand what they are doing wrong, so I guess I am worried that they are now rushing her because they season is approaching and setting her up to get hurt or, at minimum, scared. Is this typically the way a coach would expect this skill to progress and is there not much they can do but wait until she sorts it out on her own? If not, what can she/I do or say to get her some help without the coaches getting mad?

Thanks!
 
I think they probably spent a lot of time on the entry (the first part of the vault) because it is basically a new movement. The flipping part is a lot like the flipping part of many other skills. When learning a new vault, it is normal to have to spend a while learning to land it - even after a lot of practice, our girls have trouble. I hope she is doing this vault to soft mats!
 
The way she is traing sounds right to me. I know my DD first did timers (round off BHS ) into the pit, then they added mats into the pit and they did timers onto their backs, then started flipping into the pit, and then finally they add the mats into the pit to start landing on their feet. It's a process that's for sure.

It took my Dd a good year before she really got a good one. Then about 7 weeks ago she broke her hand (doing Yurchenkos) and she is now starting the process all over again. (she got her cast off a week ago) She will probably be competing a HS for the 1st meet which is about 6 weeks away. (It is probably going to be another week or so before she will start vaulting again)

Good luck to your Dd. Tell her to be patient and it will come :)

Tracy
 
My daughter struggled with her Yurchenko! She never got it during her Level 8 season. Instead she did her handspring vault which was pretty good. It had a lower start value (9.0) but because she was good with it, she sometimes scored better than girls who were trying but not landing the Yurchenko. Finally, this summer, after lots and lots of drills, she changed her step pattern and suddenly she was able to finally make the vault. Now she's working on polishing it.

So tell your daughter not to panic, she can do a different vault while she works on getting the Yurchenko.
 
A video would be really useful on this one. I can only speculate what she may be doing not to get the lift or the rotation. I would guess she's tucking too early but I really don't know.
 
she's 10. more likely than not she is under 60 pounds. her table is probably at 4 (120cm) and maybe 5. she doesn't have the requisite power or strength just yet to 'punch' the board and then immediately 'whip' back on to the table.

consequently ^^^ her whip is coming on to high. this overtly causes the head to throw back. she has the problem of head throw, but this becomes problematic and exacerbates vertically from the board causing the athlete to over adjust causing them to come on high. the end result is landing on the knees because they can't see the floor because they throw the head (average head weight 5.15 pounds) so vigorously that the body gets pulled open and forced downward (instead of close and rise vertically) leaving the legs behind.

it's a complex vault. takes lots of time to master even for very good athletes. level 8 is where you see the most horrendous yurchenko vaults ever to be performed BECAUSE THE COACHES ARE INEXPERIENCED AND DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND ALL THE PHYSICAL/MECHANICAL/PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPONENTS REQUIRED TO PERFORM THE VAULT ON A GOOD DAY...MUCH LESS A BAD DAY.

so then, tell your daughter to be patient. she must put her time in. MOST 10 year olds DO NOT perform yurchenkos ANYWHERE.

and then if you can provide some video i'll see if i can help. there are so many 'things' to be looked at...so...if you video you must do so from the start of the run. the entire body must be visible head to toe. this includes leaving the board...thru the air and then landing on whatever she is landing on. AND you must see the board on the floor to see where it is set relative to the table.

that's all.:)
 
Thanks everyone, especially Dunno! Your responses do make me feel better. Now that you mention it, she did tell me several times that she is too high on the table. She weighs in at whopping 65 lbs, and although I don't know what setting she is on for sure, I think I remember her saying that they all have to use the highest that they are allowed to be on. So what you're saying makes sense, in as much as it can to someone who can't even do a handstand!!

She seems to be feeling better today so that is good for now... She has a meet on Friday (she'll compete L7 for this one so there is no stress) and then her coach said they will get back to work next week. If I can get a video next week at practice I'd love to get your thoughts then. And in the meantime I will do a little wishful thinking along with CanadianGymMom that you become intersted in relocating and that our gym becomes interested in hiring someone qualified and helpful! lol

And yes, she is practicing the landing on a soft mat laid over the pit. Thank goodness for that! And thank goodness for CB, you guys are awesome!
 
And Tracy, good luck to your daughter too! A broken bone seems SUPER frustrating - 3 steps forward and 10 back :( These girls are so amazing, aren't they? That she even wants to come back after an injury is incredible to me, because I know that even as a rational adult I'd be flat out done if I got hurt in that way. Kudos to her!
 
Thanks! I think she more frustrated now then she was when she had the cast on. The coaches are bringing her back slowly and it's driving her nuts :)
 
bringing her back slowly=driving her nuts=good coaches who are not nuts!:)

p.s. better the kids than us, right?:)
 
Ugh, The Yurchenko vault. Been there, done that X3. First dd took 2 years to get a decent one. First year level 8 she competed handspring full. (12) Second yr. competed a very sketchy looking, hit or miss tucked yurchenko. By year 3 and level 9 she had a good piked vault and by the end of that season, a good layout. DD#2 same deal. Ugh. Level 8 was a crap shoot with that vault.(12) YIKES!!!! By level 9, it was much better and was doing a decent pike and by the summer, she was working on a good layout into resi. DD#3 1st yr. level 8 was a crap shoot. She had to handspring at several meets depending on warm up. 2nd year lv. 8 was so much better. This year first lv. 9 meet, she got a 9.1 on her piked Yurchenko. (12) Hang in there with this vault. For most kids this is a progression!!
 
My daughter struggled with that when she was a level 8 so she just competed a handspring, no reason why she can't still compete 8. I blamed our coach bc all he would tell her was "your're high on" & that is it! She would face plant over & over! It wasn't until my daughter went to a camp the next Summer that she got it! They did new to her drills & told her new corrections & bingo, she had it!
 
Another kudos to dunno. My dd's 1st yr at 8, she was very much like OPs dd. She weighed maybe 70#. She just didn't get the punch off the board, like the 100# girls. The 1st few meets she compete the RO entry vault with 1/2 twist, this has a 9.1 SV. By the end of the season she was doing the vault, but it was always inconsistent. 2nd yr 8, vault was consistent. She wasn't the best vaulter out there, but she had gained some weight & power and had a decent consistent vault. 1st yr 9, piking and she would usually get high 8s or low 9s. Vault is vault and we have no problems settling with these scores! While she wasn't a vaulter, probably never will be, she just needs a decent vault because she makes up for it on bars. Where many girls are pulling in low bars scores, she usually low to mid 9s. So a high 8, low 9 (which is like a 10 to us) keeps her in the game.

This yr, she is repeating 9 because of elbow surgery and vault has been the last event to come back. She just started flipping again maybe 5/6 weeks ago. Her pike is looking really strong and she is now working the layout. Being a little older now, she is also a shade over 100# and I see a huge difference in her power. I'm really hoping that she can get her layout for the season, but if not, she'll still be fine with the pike.

My dd's HC always said that it takes about a yr, if not more, to learn the vault & then about a yr to master the vault. Patience is not a fun word for kids, but she will definitely improve with time!
 
I don't have any answers but we can certainly sympathize - my dd is a new Level 8 going through the same thing - she is now 11 but still just about 70# and she feels like the part from the board to the table is so challenging - can do the flip part, but it all depends on the punch on the board to determine if she's on the right part of the table - she will probably have to compete a front handspring at the first couple meets! I've been told that a good front handspring will sometimes beat a yurchenko = all they can do is to keep working hard and hope to grow just alittle bit!
 
Flipping any kind of vault is a challenge. I, like a lot of level eights, did a front handspring in my first season. She's only ten, she has a lot of time to improve and learn new skills. Also, I find that the older you get the easier vault is (with hitting the board harder and being taller compared to the vault).

As frustrating as it may be to take it slow, yurchenkos are NOT something you want to rush. I had a teammate who rushed the vault into the flipping stage, but she was so inexperienced she had a lot of bad wrecks and eventually had to ditch the vault. The beginning is also pretty complicated, so she needs to know it by heart before she can attach a successful flip on the end of it. In all, it's just a good call by her coaches who would prefer her to have a strongly built yurchenko she can use for years as opposed to a risky one that might score decently for one season.
 
wow! someone ^^^ has a good coach that taught you well.:)
 
Thanks to everyone for their comments and support! It's been really helpful for me to get such great feedback and share it with my dd, and for us both to know that she is having similar issues as others. Perspective is really such a helpful thing when you're a parent of a gymnast! And I will trust that a few pounds will be very helpful to my little flyweight gymmie in the coming years :)

A quick update: she is plugging away at it and making a little bit of progress with a few successful "stand ups" this week. It is definitely a challenge, but seems to be what this sport is all about, right? :) Glad that at least the coaches are finally having her work on it more regularly, and she's feeling more positive and less frustrated since she came back from camp. The coaches did say another vault isn't an option right now (guessing it's because they don't want her to have an "out" so to speak, they want her to work through it) so not sure if she'll compete 8 at the second meet or not, but knowing she doesn't HAVE to is helping to ease the pressure for her.

Good luck to everyone - hope you all have a great season!
 

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