This question was mentioned in a different thread, but I didn't want to get it off topic. DD's new gym has L8s do tsuks. Her best friend just went to a new gym and their 8s compete yurchenkos. Do they score the same? Why do some gyms seem to favor tsuks and other yurchenkos? Many level 9s at DD's new gym seem to do yurchenkos, so I'm guessing it some how relates to progression. If they score the same, does it matter which they do?
WAG Tsuk v. Yurchenko
- Thread starter vagymmomma
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I dont know. Most of the girls at our gym do the Yurchenko for level 8. If it is a vault that doesn't work for their natural abilities our coach will give them a tsuk, but I think only 2 of our gymnasts do it. The rest do the Yurchenko. I think they are worth the same but really not sure...anyone else know?
D
Deleted member D3987
there could be many plausible reasons why this is. in the first scenario, it does sound like progression and possibly they won't let them do Y's until there 9's and older. this is completely reasonable.
in the 2nd scenario, it may be simply that they just don't know how to teach them.
finally, the start values are the same. tuck tsuk and Y tuck are the same and so on an so forth. although a tsuk layout full is a 10.1 and a Y layout full a 10.0 at level 10.
in the 2nd scenario, it may be simply that they just don't know how to teach them.
finally, the start values are the same. tuck tsuk and Y tuck are the same and so on an so forth. although a tsuk layout full is a 10.1 and a Y layout full a 10.0 at level 10.
The Yurchenko is very popular at the Elite level even though the Tsuk is valued at .2 more than the equivalent Yurchenko. This is mostly due to the fact that, once mastered, the Yurchenko entry generates a lot of power even for the less powerful gymnasts. However, the entry is very technical so needs a lot of time to be prepared, plus someone who hates backhandsprings in their tumbling on floor will probably not really get the grasp of yurchenkos either).
On the other hand, a gymnast can learn a Tsuk quite quickly if the power is there because it can (not saying that it should) be done with a lot less technical finesse. The physical abilities required to do Level 8 tumbling should in most cases suffice to do Tsuks (provided the gymnast isnt scared / incredibly tiny)- so a tsuk can be the quick option. I know many gyms that do tsuks and then take time on the side to prepare the Yurchenko. And others who just skip the Tsuk and accept vaulting a handspring a little longer if they have to.
Generally speaking, at the highest of levels there pretty much needs to be a reason for a gymnast not to do a yurchenko - e.g. issues with the entry or a particular talent for another style of vault. At a JO gym, it may be an issue of technical expertise, or just the fact that the Tsuk simply does the job for the level they are aiming at (e.g. anything more than a full twist becomes pretty much a rarity for tsuks, so not a low level at all).
On the other hand, a gymnast can learn a Tsuk quite quickly if the power is there because it can (not saying that it should) be done with a lot less technical finesse. The physical abilities required to do Level 8 tumbling should in most cases suffice to do Tsuks (provided the gymnast isnt scared / incredibly tiny)- so a tsuk can be the quick option. I know many gyms that do tsuks and then take time on the side to prepare the Yurchenko. And others who just skip the Tsuk and accept vaulting a handspring a little longer if they have to.
Generally speaking, at the highest of levels there pretty much needs to be a reason for a gymnast not to do a yurchenko - e.g. issues with the entry or a particular talent for another style of vault. At a JO gym, it may be an issue of technical expertise, or just the fact that the Tsuk simply does the job for the level they are aiming at (e.g. anything more than a full twist becomes pretty much a rarity for tsuks, so not a low level at all).
My dd's coach has always said that the Yurchenko is a finesse vault, while the Tsuk is a power vault. While many girls can tuck and pike, even layout Tsuks, there are very, very few that have the power to actually twist it. So while the Tsuk can work at 8 & 9, once you get to 10 it's hard to get a 10.0 SV with a Tsuk.
So dumb question on this point. What makes a vault powerful? Is it literally the gymnast's physical strength/muscle? If it comes back to the pop then that seems more like a finesse point, but I really don't know the difference.
Well......Since you asked what myou're afraid some people may view as a dumb question, I'll answer with what some coaches may believe is a dumb answer.
I think both are finesse vaults, each with it's own demands on the gymnast. While a yuri requires a turn prior to contact with the board, a tsuk requires the turn between the board and the table. The difficulty with a tsuk is that the "half" turn onto the table needs to finish in a reasonably straight line through the body with all body segments "square" to the hand placement. I've seen very few gymnasts work the positions as they should, even though adding that "finesse" to the vault really helps tremendously.
I think yuri's make it simpler by getting the the turn done before arriving on the board, leaving the gymnast with nothing to do (well, I said it might sound stupid) but to extend into the table and push off. Yuri's classified as a finesse vault, maybe, but I'd prefer to say that once a gymnast has the entry figured out, it becomes a simpler vault.
In a nutshell, you have to "power" an out of square, poorly aligned tsuk just to survive, or you could learn how to do it right and use far less power with an even better result. As far as yurchenkos are concerned.....half of the most common problems found in a tsuk don't come into play because, well hopefully anyways, the turn is done at the end of the run.
Here's a thought.....Mary Lou Retton competed a layed out tsuk full in the '88 games. I wonder what she'd have been able to do 24 years later with today's vaulting tables, springboards, and a round-off entry, Hmmmm....
At my old gym they wouldn't teach yurchenkos at all, even in level 10. The biggest reason for this was that my coach didn't really know how to teach a proper yurchenko. However, we've had a girl or two do a yurchenko layout in level 9, but they simply didn't have it mastered enough and would often hurt themselves (or others) on the entry. For gyms with low hours, a yurchenko is a very hard skill to upkeep.
Just a bit of randomness: iwannacoach, can you please free up your inbox? Thank you!
Just a bit of randomness: iwannacoach, can you please free up your inbox? Thank you!
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