WAG Valieva vs Raducan

[Tweb]

This issue with the figure skater Valieva reminded me a lot of Raducan's situation in 2000. Does anyone remember why was the Romanian team allowed to keep their team medal and why was Raducan allowed to continue to compete?

 

[JessSyd]

This issue with the figure skater Valieva reminded me a lot of Raducan's situation in 2000. Does anyone remember why was the Romanian team allowed to keep their team medal and why was Raducan allowed to continue to compete?

She tested clean after the team final - the cold medication that lead to the positive test was given to her just a few hours before the AA event.

Raducan was a minor and wasn’t found guilty of any wrongdoing so there was no suspension - the doctor who gave her the drug was suspended for two Olympic cycles.

Valieva’s situation must be heartbreaking for her. It seems she competed clean at the Olympics, but was obviously dosed with something, by someone, at some point fairly recently. The fact that she is a minor is something that will have to be taken into account when allocating responsibility and consequences, as it’s highly unlikely a fifteen year old is accessing highly specific medication by herself.

I think when people think of Sydney, they think of Raducan as the winner. Sure, she didn’t get the medal, but she won the event. The situation was a sad and unfortunate accident, rather than corrupt and scandalous. Not sure history will be as kind to Valieva’s situation unfortunately, even if they do have sympathy for the athlete.

 

[bookworm]

I think people “won’t be as kind” to Valieva’s situation because of the Russian history of doping and the exact reason she is competing for the “ROC” is because of what she was caught doing, whether as a minor she even had any control. Former German skater Katerina Witt is calling for Valieva’s handlers /coach/whoever gave her this med to be permanently banned… and i agree with that.

If you haven’t seen the documentary Icarus, about the Russian doping scandal, I encourage you to see it as the things they did were mind boggling.

 

[JessSyd]

From what the figure skating fam community is saying, it is well known that there are some extremely problematic coaching behaviours going on, even without doping.

I read yesterday that the federation is raising the minimum age for international senior competition to 17. Which is good, as current practice seems to very much be break a lot of girls to create the occasional phenom - whose career will burn bright for a year or so until constant dieting and injury catch up with her.

 

[JBS]

If you haven’t seen the documentary Icarus, about the Russian doping scandal, I encourage you to see it as the things they did were mind boggling.

Interesting... I never knew of the documentary...

Watch Icarus | Netflix Official Site

In his Oscar-winning film, an American cyclist plunges into a vast doping scandal involving a Russian scientist -- Putin's most-wanted whistleblower.

www.netflix.com

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

The performance enhancing benefits of what Raducan took were also debatable and I believe it was actually taken off the banned list a few years after the incident.
Valieva's medication would have given her a training benefit. I know some say she is also a victim, I agree - but the repercussions should be the same. Otherwise you are rewarding adults for doping a minor athlete because the penalties are not as severe.

 

[HopeForChange]

I wonder why they can't process samples more quickly - it seems the one in question was taken weeks ago.

 

[GymDadWA]

I wonder why they can't process samples more quickly - it seems the one in question was taken weeks ago.

That is also part of the scandal: “According to information received by WADA, the sample in this case was not flagged by RUSADA as being a priority sample when it was received by the anti-doping laboratory in Stockholm, Sweden. This meant the laboratory did not know to fast-track the analysis of this sample.”

The conspiracy theory is that by not-marking the sample it would take so long to process the sample that the olympics would already be over.

 

[Deleted member 26368]

I saw part of the prime time televised skate last night, just as Valieva was finishing. She was crying. Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir were giving their commentary - and they were clear that they feel she should not have been allowed to compete, e even if she's probably the best in the world right now.

I do feel for Valieva herself, because ultimately she's 15 and people higher up the chain likely coordinated this (even if it comes out she knowingly took a banned substance). The drug in question is widely used in Russia apparently, so her lawyers have claimed it was an accidental exposure via her grandfather. Even with Russia's history of scandal, I can't believe she herself would choose this drug to get an advantage. Now, if a coach/trainer told her to take it, then obviously different story. I certainly could be wrong!

However, Lipinski and Weir are right that this is not fair for the athletes who have worked their whole lives to be on that level, to share the stage (and be overshadowed by) with an athlete who broke the rules.

EXPLAINER: The drug behind Russia's Olympic doping case

Kamila Valieva was back on the Olympic ice at the Beijing Games for the individual competition. Details of her legal defense in a doping case were revealed only hours earlier.

apnews.com

 

[Deleted member 26368]

Additional information about the other substances found in Valieva's sample, which makes the "grandfather" story seem suspicious. This is a hot mess and sad for figure skating.

'Serious questions’ raised about Kamila Valieva's ‘grandfather’ excuse

Kamila Valieva's 'grandfather' explanation is a 'long shot,' according to USA's anti-doping chief.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[bookworm]

Frankly , her story of it being slipped to her by her coaches was more plausible than the “it’s grampa’s saliva” and i drank from his dirty glass story … and the TMZ she had in her system is so quickly eliminated from the body for those who take it with a medical reason that it makes the grampa story completely unbelievable… and that it came out that she had 2 other cardiac meds in her system… a world class 15 yo athlete needs 3 cardiac meds ? Russia doing Russia .
Not banning them from any of their athletes competing just makes them cockier to try it again. The IOC should ban all their athletes whether Russian or ROC , from future Olympics for the next few cycles to clean up the mess they are in now.

 

[Deleted member 26368]

Agreed @bookworm, I think Russia blew it's chances for possible reinstatement now.

And, putting my nurse's cap on, what will be the long term health effects of these drugs on this girl??

Also, why wasn't Sha'Carri Richardson allowed to run in the Summer Games, but Valieva can skate now? Both technically failed drug tests.

 

[bookworm]

Agreed @bookworm, I think Russia blew it's chances for possible reinstatement now.

And, putting my nurse's cap on, what will be the long term health effects of these drugs on this girl??

Also, why wasn't Sha'Carri Richardson allowed to run in the Summer Games, but Valieva can skate now? Both technically failed drug tests.

Sha'Carri was American and the US banned her when she failed the drug test....when Valieva failed it the ROC committee initially said she was out and then reversed their own decision...It's like the fox guarding the hen house. Why Russia or their designees are allowed to police themselves is mind boggling...it's like making a criminal his own parole officer.

And as far as long term effects, if Valieva goes the way of Tutberidze's other proteges , she'll be one and done so she'll be able to stop the meds/stop drinking out of Grampa's dirty glass pretty soon. It treats angina so it's quick acting and out of the system in 24-36 hours ...sounds like a nitroglycerin type action.

 

[GymDadWA]

Also, why wasn't Sha'Carri Richardson allowed to run in the Summer Games, but Valieva can skate now? Both technically failed drug tests.

Valieva being 15 means she is a "protected person" where the IOC deems that they don't have the power to say "no" or even will know if they are doing something against the rules.

Sha'Carri is older and is legally responsible for what she consumes, but wasn't taking a performance enhancing drug, she took a recreational drug that is now legal in many states.

It does seem quite unfair and it's possible that RoC knew the rule and also knew nothing would happen to Valieva because she is protected. With that precedent being set why wouldn't they or anyone else do that with all their athletes under 16 if all they care about is winning.

 

[bookworm]

Valieva being 15 means she is a "protected person" where the IOC deems that they don't have the power to say "no" or even will know if they are doing something against the rules.

It does seem quite unfair and it's possible that RoC knew the rule and also knew nothing would happen to Valieva because she is protected. With that precedent being set why wouldn't they or anyone else do that with all their athletes under 16 if all they care about is winning.

I think for this very reason there is discussion of raising the minimum age for Senior competition (i.e. Olympics) to 18 so the ROC will no longer get to pull this crap.

And FWIW, I do think Valieva knew she was taking "something" that wasn't allowed because they had a story ready to go ...now whether she had any say or control is another issue but she's still a dirty athlete who shouldn't be allowed to compete.

 

[Dahlia]

I think for this very reason there is discussion of raising the minimum age for Senior competition (i.e. Olympics) to 18 so the ROC will no longer get to pull this crap.

And FWIW, I do think Valieva knew she was taking "something" that wasn't allowed because they had a story ready to go ...now whether she had any say or control is another issue but she's still a dirty athlete who shouldn't be allowed to compete.

There are credible rumblings out that they are upping the senior age for figure skaters for the 2023-2024 season to 17. Should have been done sooner, but hopefully goes through. I believe that the IOC protected minor age is for under 16, so that would get rid of that issue for figure skating and all athletes would be liable if doping.

 

[GymDadWA]

The entire protected person rule needs to be re-evaluated because it isn't protecting youth from being given performance enhancing drugs it is just allowing them to compete under the guise of ignorance and increases the likelihood that they would be given something from a parent/coach/organization that values winning over all else.

Even with the senior age increasing it still encourages using PED as their are no consequences for doing so. Until their SR age they can train longer, harder, with less risk of injury, and then cycle off of the PED when it is time to compete.

 

[Dahlia]

The entire protected person rule needs to be re-evaluated because it isn't protecting youth from being given performance enhancing drugs it is just allowing them to compete under the guise of ignorance and increases the likelihood that they would be given something from a parent/coach/organization that values winning over all else.

Even with the senior age increasing it still encourages using PED as their are no consequences for doing so. Until their SR age they can train longer, harder, with less risk of injury, and then cycle off of the PED when it is time to compete.

It looks likely that if this accusation is founded (and I think it will be, the grandpa story is very fishy) that her coaches and trainers/doctors who are found to have provided the drug could be suspended or permanently banned from the sport. She may not face the same level of consequence, but suspending/banning professionals who give performance enhancing drugs to minors is going to protect them. IMO, they should go with the harshest consequence here and ban the professionals.

It's impossible to know if Valieva knew what she was doing or not, or whether she was coerced, so that makes it hard to know how to handle any sort of consequence for her. I suspect having her coach suspended or banned is a pretty serious consequence for her and her career. Plus now her name is muddied and she will always be doubted. A tarnished image, rumors, condemnation from other athletes, etc. are pretty tough things for a 15yo to deal with.

Are there random tests for PEDs while training at the high level? I know athletes are tested after competition to see if they have PEDs that are banned in their blood. But I haven't heard of being tested during training, and if that's the case, there is nothing stopping any athlete from using them outside of competition. However, I don't know if it would be beneficial or harm performance after coming off of them.

 

[txgymfan]

Yes there are random PED tests. International level athletes have to submit where they will be for one hour per day year around. They can be tested literally any day of the year.

Some top US skaters began testing at age eleven, others at 13. If I remember correctly, Michael Phelps was tested while his wife was in labor with his first child.

The testing is done by or in conjunction with the World AntiDoping Agency (WADA).

 

[TumbleTimes4]

After watching that debacle last night, I want to know if they think the “irreparable harm” that she would have suffered from not skating, would have been worse than the irreparable harm that she and her teammates suffered from last night. I just can’t see how that was the better option for anyone. I hope a responsible adult steps up and gets her some proper counseling after all the trauma she has had to suffer. She should not have been allowed to skate, but my heart goes out to her for all the suffering she has had to endure because of the complete failure of the adults in her life.