Vault Settings

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I am trying to understand the rationale for the setting of the vault table in training front handspring vaults at Level 5. The coaches seem to set it higher than the girls can get over, forcing them to either: 1) not make it over the table at all, 2) take steps or hops with their hands to make or over, or 3) bend their legs completely to be able to make it over. The coach adjusts the table for different girls so that this happens with ALL of them, no matter how well they vault over lower settings.

I am hoping a coach can explain the reasoning behind this to me. I am confused. As a non-coach, it would make more sense to me to have them perfect the vault at a lower setting and get a feel for doing it RIGHT and then start moving the table higher. Instead, these girls do an entire vault training session never making it over the vault (or only with very poor form).

I am sure there must be a reason for doing this. Can someone explain it to me? Thanks.
 
None that I can think of.

I should clarify that I tend towards working with the table higher over time, and if a girl seems to be halfway between two vault settings, I would put her on the higher one, but I can't think of any immediate benefit to putting it so high that they struggle to get over.
 
Well, I probably wouldn't put it up to where they were hopping/walking with their hands to get over. I put it at the max where they can get over though, it might be moved down closer to competitions for some. Sometimes coaches want girls to get used to vaulting over another setting to "go harder." But I don't think this should be done at the expense of any technique. A lot of times coaches will evaluate the vaults at different settings close to season to see what looks best. Also, at this point, they may be trying the girls out at different settings. To SEE how they are doing there, and may do this over a period of time but make adjustments. I have done this too. But I don't want to build bad habits so there's a balancing act between letting them try, etc.

They may be planning that the girls will eventually use this setting, after going back through some drills, I suppose.
 
I am a coach and I set it as high as they can safely block. I try to get them used to blocking and hitting the table as vertical as I can. Then a week before comp I set it one higher than what I will set it at the meet. This makes the over all vaut at the meet better because less contact time and full vertical is what counts for scores. A clean landing is important, but straight arms and the block are very important in the J.O.compusary meets
 
my coach does that to. they do it so we get used to it being high and having to use alot of force and then when its closer to a meet they lower it so you have a really good, strong vault. but they never put it so high that it wont be safe.
 
If the gymnast tends to lean forward too much, I will raise the table to get a better angle on the spring board. I will; however, spot the skill to make sure the gymnast still feels the vault happen as if it were done at their normal vault setting.
Setting the table high without a spot doesn't' make much sense to me since it may not be a safe setting.
I do set the table maybe one notch high during warm ups then drop it to the normal setting for vaults that aren't being spotted. Again this is for board entry angle only. I don't really use it as a reason to punch harder since I think a harder (faster) punch usually translates into faster rotation off the board (if the body position is correct) and that would make the higher table a little frightening unless the gymnast is ready for their hands to hit almost immediately after their feet come off the board.

If this were being done as a drill, I like to use mats instead of the table. I've stacked mats between 5 and 6 feet high and the kids thought it was a fun game while all I was doing was getting their shoulders back on the board.
 
What height, on average do you under 12 crowd vault on. I have long realised that you have not set height in the USA. Ours use 125cm on the gymnova vault and with the grey FIG approved gymnova spring board. Our little ones really have issues with both the hardness of the board and we cannot remove the springs.
 
there really is no point in vaulting off a board until they have strong round off-flip flop-back tucks and layouts.

bog, i know this is problematic for canada. the coaches have told me that it is fig and ONLY fig. you already know my opinion about gymnova floors and boards. when we come up your way with kids in JO, it always pisses off the canadian gymnasts as they see us take springs out of the boards, move the bars around, etc; they ask our kids to write letters to your federation to attempt talking some sense into them. the dialogue they have is quite amusing.

low mini-trampolines are better for the little ones. learning how to run, appropriate the steps, hurdling, and keeping shapes is more important for the little ones.
 
What height, on average do you under 12 crowd vault on. I have long realised that you have not set height in the USA. Ours use 125cm on the gymnova vault and with the grey FIG approved gymnova spring board. Our little ones really have issues with both the hardness of the board and we cannot remove the springs.

Less than 125 for a beginning front handspring usually, but most optionals are at about 125 or 120 I'd say. For beginner front handsprings, I guess 105 might be the average, but I'm kind of making that up. 100 to 110 at 5 and 6 usually from what I see. 115-120ish by level 7 (still doing front handspring). Usually not 125 until optionals. But since we can (and do!) change it around, it really depends on the kid's ability and size. I might have a level 5 on the lowest allowed setting, and some on a significantly higher setting (not 125 though).

Springs, well we have different boards, meets mostly using the Tac-10 (basketball looking) boards now. Again we can and do change this so depending on ability of kid and size. Smallest kids, 4 springs maybe, eh, I avoid changing out springs and boards because it's so time consuming so I'll usually spot off the board or something and then closer to the meets see if they need to move down to 4 or even 3 we've done, but if they're tight on the board sometimes they might surprise you. 5-6 for the slightly older or more advanced compulsories, and L7s. Optionals vaulting with around 7 depending on skill level. I'd vault around 7 myself. But beginning optionals, and younger girls, probably wouldn't put them there. Again board tightness with the yurchenko entry. We've recently been worked on being tight on the board a lot and have moved to more springs than I have used previously.
 
bog, i know this is problematic for canada. the coaches have told me that it is fig and ONLY fig. you already know my opinion about gymnova floors and boards. when we come up your way with kids in JO, it always pisses off the canadian gymnasts as they see us take springs out of the boards, move the bars around, etc; they ask our kids to write letters to your federation to attempt talking some sense into them. the dialogue they have is quite amusing.

low mini-trampolines are better for the little ones. learning how to run, appropriate the steps, hurdling, and keeping shapes is more important for the little ones.


In Quebec they can use the mini tramp but with a massive 1.5 deduction applied with SV of only 3.5. They tried earlier in the season to allow coaches to remove one spring for the under 12 crowd, but after Gymnova told them it would be dangerous (sure) and the board might break, they decided not to take the chance and we are back at square one. In Quebec there are deductions for adjusting the boards.

These FIG rules are now applied to even low level regional gymnastics and this means that kids who train 5-9 hours a week are trying to get up and over the table at FIG. We are seeing some very ugly and dangerous vaulting.

I know the coaches are working hard on the federation to do something, but it seems that they don't care. But to have the equivalent of a L4 using this system is just stupid. It's not like they are getting ready for international elite meets.

The mini tramp produces some beautiful vaults, but that deduction, UGH.
 
What height, on average do you under 12 crowd vault on. I have long realised that you have not set height in the USA. Ours use 125cm on the gymnova vault and with the grey FIG approved gymnova spring board. Our little ones really have issues with both the hardness of the board and we cannot remove the springs.

I like the table somewhere between their ribcage and chin depending on the vaulter and how firm the board is. I've noted that a firm board leads to faster rotation if hit properly by most gymnasts so if the table is higher, they may not have time to get to their support shape before the contact the table. I really try to look at their angles and decide if the table needs to go up or down.

As far as the hard board goes, I'd use and older FIG approved spring board with old springs if you need a softer board. I don't know of any meets I've been to (in the US) where they used a spring gauge to make sure the springs were of a certain caliber.
I actually like the harder board. It seems to teach the kids to punch faster instead of harder to get the results they need. The one thing I don't like about a really firm board is the risk of ankle and knee injury if they hit it wrong.
 
As far as the hard board goes, I'd use and older FIG approved spring board with old springs if you need a softer board. I don't know of any meets I've been to (in the US) where they used a spring gauge to make sure the springs were of a certain caliber.
I actually like the harder board. It seems to teach the kids to punch faster instead of harder to get the results they need. The one thing I don't like about a really firm board is the risk of ankle and knee injury if they hit it wrong.

Not an option to use the older board, we have two and they are no longer allowed, the new grey hard board, known as "the rock" is what we all have to use. All clubs had to buy and use it and that is all that is at the meets. Every gym has to rent the equipment from gymnova so the equipment is standardised.

We have had lots of injury with this new board and it just isn't practical for little, lighter gymnasts. Hoping they will makes some changes soon, but the season is already underway so we may be too late for this year.
 
Not an option to use the older board, we have two and they are no longer allowed, the new grey hard board, known as "the rock" is what we all have to use. All clubs had to buy and use it and that is all that is at the meets. Every gym has to rent the equipment from gymnova so the equipment is standardised.

We have had lots of injury with this new board and it just isn't practical for little, lighter gymnasts. Hoping they will makes some changes soon, but the season is already underway so we may be too late for this year.

Holy monopoly, batman!
 
You cannot imagine how much it is to rent the set up for a meet. You have to have one gym set up for the warm up and one for the meet itself. They deliver it in huge gymnova trucks and then you have to find volunteers to put it all up and take it down.

Gyms cannot charge for entry to the meet and meet fees for gymnasts are established by the Federation and do not give profit margins. Any money the clubs make is from concessions. THis is proabably why we do not have many meets.

The other issue is that on any given weekend from Nov - May there are only so many lots of the Gymnova equip so they have to be booked way ahead or the meet moved. It is all very crazy. The Gymnova rep in Canada, who lives in Montreal, must take his money to the back in a wheelbarrow!

Most gyms do not have gymnova floors as they cost $45,000, but we mostly have everything else gymnova.
 
Not an option to use the older board, we have two and they are no longer allowed, the new grey hard board, known as "the rock" is what we all have to use. All clubs had to buy and use it and that is all that is at the meets. Every gym has to rent the equipment from gymnova so the equipment is standardised.

We have had lots of injury with this new board and it just isn't practical for little, lighter gymnasts. Hoping they will makes some changes soon, but the season is already underway so we may be too late for this year.


Swap out the springs in one of the boards and see if anyone notices :D

I think if you bring up the injury point to the powers that be in Canada, they'll make some changes. I'd work out on a softer but firm board to save the kids' joints either way.
 

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