WAG vault- uhhh what to do when they just don't get it

[Short Balding Guy]

+1 to wgagym's post! Perhaps to lower your anxiety consider that many FX drills and BB Handstand drills directly benefit vault. DD's vault is being effected each practice on more than 1 event.

A front HS vault is a complex thing done at an athletes maximum speed. It does take timing, skill fitness(strength) and technique. The mix of the three make it difficult.

IMO: As your DD is becoming an excellent gymnast, she needs time to learn and develop. Congradulate the baby steps (ex: Faster run, more powerful hurdle, straighter/tighter pre-flight shape or stronger hip lift) and the goal will be reached over time by a happy and emotionally powerful young athlete. Small steps need encouragement, same as big steps.

Best, SBG -

 

[beachgirl]

We might have the same daughter. My daughter's highest score for the new L3 vault was only 9.25 yet she consistently scored in the 37 and 38 range, so obviously vault was the only problem. She runs like a girls all wiggly and cute and the vault lacks power. She's just moved up to L4 and the coach's assure me that she will make it over the vault on her own in time, but it sure doesn't look like it to me. They coaches spot her on every vault. Periodically I ask her when she thinks she might vault on the table without a spot and she always tells me she still needs a big spot, so she's not close. It's frustrating when everything else seems fine.

 

[sce]

I am going to disagree with others about one thing. While you should not coach her at home, showing her some videos might help. Some kids are visual learners and videos help put a picture in their mind of what their body should be doing. My son figured out breast stroke, because he saw a slow mo of Michael Phelps under water during the Olympics. One day he couldn't put the pieces together, the day after seeing ti on TV it was there. His teachers were shocked, for him seeing what they were saying connected the dots.

Also, my ds was struggling with vault. His coach said his run was crooked. I found out my ds did not understand what that meant or how to fix it. When we talked with his coach about it, it was decided to do a couple of privates, to help him with awareness of his run. It did not immediately fix everything but now he knows what to think about and correct as he practices.

 

[Short Balding Guy]

Visual - OK here we go:





Best, SBG -

 

[MaryA]

I suspect that a young child would have trouble getting over the fact that the vault table looks different in these videos. I know I did. "Oh, look, she's going to do a FHS vault... And she's running... And... Oh, look how funny the vault table looks. Now a Yurchenko... She's running... And... Oh, look how funny the vault table looks." But maybe I'm just easily distracted...

 

[Flossyduck]

Squirrell...

 

[MaryA]

Squirrell...

Exactly!

 

[coachmolly]

Is she being spotted on the FHS vault? I just have a hard time imagining a kid that can do a hs-flatback VT that is good enough to get a 9.2 who cannot even get over the VT for a fhs with a spot. Even my weakest vaulters (Excel silver-so they do hs-flatback) can get a FHS over the table with a spot.
If she isn't even getting close to a handstand, it sort of sounds like a fear issue. Try to trust her coaches, there really is no rhyme or reason to how/when/why the handspring vault clicks with each kid, at least not in my experience. I have some really strong girls who struggle with vault and some girls who struggle elsewhere and picked up vault super fast. She'll get there.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

It takes time....
My DD was very small. She started training/competing handspring vault at 6 years old (she did USAG Level 4 and USAIGC bronze same year).... then level 5, another year of 5, then level 6...sometime during level 7 it FINALLY clicked and she started scoring mid-9's! By then she was 10 and probably about 65 lbs. From there, her vault took off -tsuk then yurchenko pike (one meet) then layout now she's twisting...and on the podium at every meet for vault (where she never scored more than 8's doing flatback!)

 

[mobeans]

I agree that it takes time....it will suddenly just click. Vault was by far my DD's weakest event. She is very light/petite and doesn't have a lot of leg power...it took all season for her to have the best vault of her season at States, where she placed first! I would never have imagined that was possible at the beginning of the season.

IMO, though, I don't see anything wrong with a private just to make sure she has all the mechanics of it properly broken down.

 

[mumoftwogymnasts]

How old is your daughter? Like a lot of others my DD struggled with vault for what felt like forever - and then one day it just clicked. Her 1st year of competing handstand flatback (as a very small 7 yr old) it was pretty much a 50/50 chance as to whether she would pull out a handstand fb or so some wierd type of forward roll type thing. Coach was never worried- she just kept saying it would come, she needed to understand it more - and with time it did.

I would check with your daughter that she understands the words the coach is using. DD kept being told she needed more heel drive - but it took her about three months to casually mention to me, not the coach, that "I don't really know what he means by heel drive" lol

 

[juststartingout]

Is she being spotted on the FHS vault? I just have a hard time imagining a kid that can do a hs-flatback VT that is good enough to get a 9.2 who cannot even get over the VT for a fhs with a spot. Even my weakest vaulters (Excel silver-so they do hs-flatback) can get a FHS over the table with a spot.
If she isn't even getting close to a handstand, it sort of sounds like a fear issue. Try to trust her coaches, there really is no rhyme or reason to how/when/why the handspring vault clicks with each kid, at least not in my experience. I have some really strong girls who struggle with vault and some girls who struggle elsewhere and picked up vault super fast. She'll get there.

Only once or twice since most the time she doesn't even get up. She's pretty much not afraid of anything. She doesn't stop or even slow down, her feet just don't come up behind her. Every now and then she'll do a great flat back vault and that happened the time that she scored the 9.2. She actually scored 9.2 twice in competition. But she is not consistent. I don't think she understands what she is doing right when it works or wrong when it doesn't. Because of that it's hard for her to repeat it consistently. She scores low 8's normally. When she vaults it seems her feet are coming up way too slow but she doesn't go over piked like some kids do. She is piked a little going up because her legs are slow coming up but then she hits the handstand in super slow motion and comes down flat. Also despite running super fast it seems like there is no bounce when she hits the vault board. Maybe her hurdle is not big enough, maybe she isn't at the right angle, I don't know but something doesn't work. It's like a dead weight on the springboard. I just wish she understood what she did different the times that she did manage to score well. I am going to have to check and see if my friend recorded her vault from last weekend, it was a mess.

 

[juststartingout]

How old is your daughter? Like a lot of others my DD struggled with vault for what felt like forever - and then one day it just clicked. Her 1st year of competing handstand flatback (as a very small 7 yr old) it was pretty much a 50/50 chance as to whether she would pull out a handstand fb or so some wierd type of forward roll type thing. Coach was never worried- she just kept saying it would come, she needed to understand it more - and with time it did.

I would check with your daughter that she understands the words the coach is using. DD kept being told she needed more heel drive - but it took her about three months to casually mention to me, not the coach, that "I don't really know what he means by heel drive" lol

She doesn't get what she's supposed to do. She's told me and the coaches that but they haven't tried to explain it another way. I think the problem is a combo of the heel drive and not a long enough hurdle. My daughter is 8yo. She started gym about 2 years ago. She practices 9 hrs a wk currently, before this past summer they were only 6 hrs a wk and only did vault every other week. I actually posted about the vault way back then because I was concerned that they rarely worked on it.

 

[txgymfan]

Is she going to a camp this summer? I know the HC doesn't think she needs a private but could ayou ask if another coach ( one she likes) could do one as a favor to you and your dd. It sounds like you think she could benefit from having a different person explain the vault in a different way. You might very well be right. See if you can find a (sneaky, unobtrusive ?) way to make that happen.

 

[juststartingout]

One of the other head coaches in the gym who sometimes helps with our girls had offered to do a private with her. The problem with that was her only availability was daytime and so I would have had to take my daughter out of school early. At the time I just couldn't make it work and I figured I would wait and see how it went. Then when I was talking to my daughters coach the other day and she was pushing for the move to the next level I expressed my concern about vault and offered that I was willing to get her privates to help. That was when she pretty much said no and that she would get it. Now it's so bad that I would be willing to figure a way to get my daughter out early a few days but I feel if I do it now it would be going against the coaches wishes and I don't want to step on her toes. I do think she is wrong though and that my daughter will not get it under the current conditions. I am thinking about calling another gym to see if they do privates for people not members of their gym but I doubt they would. My daughter's coach is now gone on 2 wks vacation so I can't even have a discussion with her. My daughter's gym is USAIGC only. so we are still mid season. Apparently the coach left telling her assistant coach's to train my
daughter on the next level routines. So they are teaching her the new routines when we have a meet in 3 wks and she isn't even close to vaulting. It's just extremely stressful for my daughter. Usually this system would work to our advantage since she could do copper on vault and bronze on the other equipment but for some reason the owner decided he wasn't going to allow that this year.

 

[juststartingout]

I wasn't planning on a camp but maybe that is something I should look into. Our gym owner frowns on attending camps.

 

[Clover]

Well, I can really feel your frustration, and I can definitely empathize. I don't want to get flamed by anyone, and I really think that it will come on its own, but I will go against what I said earlier and give you a few observations from my own experience. Keep in mind that I am ONLY a parent. I am a parent whose daughter went from having a very mediocre FHS vault to a fantastic FHS vault literally overnight. I really recommend that if any of this sounds like your DD you have her speak to the coach about it and try to fix it at the gym.

Pay close attention to her run. Does it accelerate? Does she take any little steps as she nears the springboard. She needs a good run and hurdle onto the springboard to get the power to get over. My DD used to take little tiny steps as she got close to the springboard which cut down her power. She did get over but she had those "push-up arms" rather than just the quick touch with straight arms that the good vaulters were using as they went over the table. Now DD takes a huge jump/hurdle/step/whatever you call it onto the Springboard (and boy is it loud when she hits) and she almost looks like she doesn't even use the table.

How about the starting point? I assume she has a specific number that she starts her run from. I know a girl whose vault improved considerably when she adjusted her starting point. As they grow I suspect that point needs to change to get the right number of steps.

Obviously, you need a coach who is familiar with your daughter to work the technical pieces, but I did want to at least give you something to think about.

 

[MBJ974]

Obviously, you need a coach who is familiar with your daughter to work the technical pieces, but I did want to at least give you something to think about.[/QUOTE]

Just wondering if your daughter would have access to a trampoline-style springboard to replace the traditional springboard at first?

 

[juststartingout]

Our girls don't have a specific starting point. The coaches have never measured it out for each girl or even talked about the fact that they should have the same number of steps each time. Sometimes they start from way in the back sometimes halfway, it's always random. Sometimes they vault in a whole different area of the gym where there is a small runway and even if they were used to running a good distance wouldn't have that option. My daughter does run super fast but I will look tonight to see if she is taking smaller steps towards the end. She is an overthinker so it is a possibility. They don't have a trampoline springboard so that's not an option.

 

[Sasha]

I'm just a parent, but I sense your frustration so sharing anything that might help...

Have they done any drills with her where she just stands on the springboard and tries to jump repeatedly with a tight pencil shape (with coach possibly holding her hips to assist)? That's what they did with my one DS when he would run at a good speed, decent hurdle, but hit the springboard and basically just get zero height and collapse into the mat stack instead of getting up onto it. He just wasn't getting the tight 'spring' from just the right little flex in his knees and ankles. Instead, he was momentarily 'absorbing' the impact with his body, like you would to land safely on a mat, and then trying to 'jump' a moment later, which of course just gave him no spring.

Anyway, they did a lot of that standing on the springboard in a pencil shape and bouncing to try to train his feet and knees. And many punches on the floor, which appears to be training the same kind of thing to my non-coach eye, anyway.