WAG Very confused about how level placement works?

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mouey77

DD is just turned 6 y.o. I have posted about this before. She just got placed on the level 1 team at her gym. Back in January when she was 5 and bored in a preschool group, we thought about moving her to a new gym. I took her to the new gym in January for an evaluation and they wanted to place her on their level 3 team at that time (I guess this will now be called level 2 this season). We decided to stay at our old gym. The coaches are really good with the little kids, and they do place well at meets. On the other hand, the communication is not good at all, so the parents really have to make an effort to get feedback from the coaches. They did a "try out" at our gym in May, and they placed all the new girls on level 1 team.

DD did some tumbling with a level 10 gymnast at a cheer gym with some friends. I had considered letting her do competitive cheer as well since she loves the tumbling, but we decided to hold off. She does nice back handsprings and can almost do a back tuck on her own. Wouldn't these skills be level 2 or 3? As far as I know, poor form is not an issue as her gymnastics coaches seem pleased with what she is doing. So, she picked up the level 1 skills on bars, beam, and vault quickly and is doing that by herself just fine since May. So, my question is: I am seeing lots of people posting about young children 6 or 7 STARTING team at level 4. I see only much older kids on level 4 (8 and 9 yr olds at our gym) on level 4. I have now had the cheer coach who was a former gymnast comment that it is ridiculous for her to be placed on level 1, and a friend of mine in another state whose daughter does team said the same thing.

Should I be asking the gymnastics coaches about this? She has never competed before, so I would imagine starting at level 4 (now level 3) would be way too daunting for her, but what about at least moving her to level 2 team? On the other hand, she might be a lot more comfortable doing skills that are easy for her at level 1? Weirdly, a lot of her skills appear to me to be as good or better than many of the level 2 girls, but she is younger than most of them. Or, is this the kind of thing where if she does well in meets at level 1, they might have her skip to level 3? Do they have to obtain a certain number of points before they qualify to be on a level, and if that's the case, how are these young kids starting at level 4? How does placement on a level work?
 
It depends what level your gym starts competing. At gyms where you hear girls start on team at level 4, they have probably had at least a year or two, maybe more, of pre-team/developmental classes to prepare them for that level. Your gym starts competing earlier. Each gym does things differently in terms of "skipping" lower levels, so we wouldn't know what their plan is for your DD. As for your question about how they qualify to be on a certain level, no, that's not the case. The first required level (required by USAG) is new level 4/old level 5. Where your DD is placed is based on where her coaches think she should be.

Also - it makes sense if your gym only has older L4s and L5s, if they start competing at lower levels and do one level a year.
 
Most of the gyms around here don't start competing until the old level 4. So level 3. Level 1 and level 2 is recreational, not competitive. I have never seen a meet for levels 1 and 2, but a few for level 3.

Every gym does things differently so you would need to speak with your gym.
 
Wow your little six year old is very impressive! The gym may have placed her as a level one for now because she is not caught up on the other events besides floor (tumbling). It's as simple as that, but if her skills on the other events are closer to a level four such as her tumbling you may want to speak to the coach.
 
Most gyms in my area start competing at Level 3 (old Level 4). Pre-team consists of ages 4+ (there are younger developmental groups ages 4-5 years old, and then preteam ages 6+). Most gyms I know of require at least one year of preteam and then start competing at new Level 3 if the girls have their skills. I personally think competing at the lower levels (below Level 3) is a waste of time because the kids could be working on skills/strength/flexibility rather than learning routines and going to meets. If the other gym wanted to put your dd on their Level 3 team last year and she is already doing round off back handsprings, then I do think it's kind of strange she's in Level 1 now. Is there a developmental or pre-team group she can be in, if she's not ready to compete? Obviously she needs more to compete than just a back handspring, but she definitely doesn't sound Level 1 unless your gym starts everyone there and then moves up as necessary. I'd ask the coach what the plan is for her - will she do Level 1/2 this year and then move up to Level 3 next year, etc...
 
The main skills needed for Level 3, in addition to good form and strength, are: round off back handspring/full split/handstand forward roll/back roll/leaps for floor; pullover/back hip circle/front hip circle/shoot thru/mill circle for bars; handstand flat back vault; leap/handstand/half turns/handstand dismount on beam.
 
She sounds like she is above that level. Maybe the coaches will work her through Level 1 just so she gets used to doing routines and have her compete Level 2 (or maybe 3) when the season comes. Ask.
 
I think whether a gym moves a little bitty girl to level 3 (old level 4) just depends on the gym. My daughter is at that level, and there are no girls on her team who are super young. The youngest ones are probably in 2nd grade (going into 3rd), then they go up in age to about 6th or 7th grade. But her gym does not train elite, so I'm sure that enters into it as well. They are pretty good about turning out girls who get scholarships, though.
 
I do think and (have been told) that she has a lot of potential, but honestly, this is VERY expensive and a very big time commitment (as in, she will not be doing any other activities at all), so I would like to be sure she's at a good place and spending time (and our $$) wisely. If they just move up one level a year, she would be going into high school at level 8 compared to what I am reading about on these forums. Who knows if she will be elite track or do this for the long haul since she is so young, but I did see the level 1 floor routine and thought to myself, "what in the world?!" I have never seen her do a front mill circle or even attempt to do one since they are really only working them on level 1 right now, which looks to me like a back hip circle and a straddle cast (I think that's what it's called.), and she is doing that pretty well by herself. And then the other skill mentioned above for level 3 that I'm not sure she could do well would be the vault, but again, she just started learning that skill less than a month ago. If she were to compete level 1 and do really well, can they move her up mid-season? And if they are wanting better form before moving her up a level, is that something that would be communicated by the coach to the gymnast/parents? Maybe my real question is how much communication do you get about your child from your child's coaches? The complete lack of communication from this gym combined with my daughter really starting to want more out of gymnastics is what prompted all of my questioning in the first place. And I am still finding myself feeling very clueless about all of this. I guess the good news is that DD is having a lot of fun spending so much time at the gym now.
 
I would encourage you to search the old posts on this site, as there is a WEALTH of information about competition, levels, move-up requirements, gym culture, "average" or "typical" progressions, etc. It really helped me once dd joined "team". From what I have experienced (and read here), most gyms use Levels 1-4 (now 1-3) as developmental...meaning the focus is on learning and progression, rather than competing. It is possible to move through those levels faster than one per year...I even saw one talented young gymmie move from L1 to L5 in a single year, although that is not typical. In that case, girls could be moved from one "level" to the next throughout the year. Some gyms will let girls compete more than one level per year if they get the skills, others don't. (or, as in the example above, the gymmie "skipped" L2-4. It wasn't truly skipping as USAG does not require those levels be competed.) I understand what you mean about the commitment, the time and money we were spending prompted me to get educated (and this site has been the best resource). The communication issues are a common complaint of parents regarding their gym, so you are not alone in your frustration. However, some REALLY good gyms are bad at communicating with parents, especially at the early levels. So, if you like everything else about the gym, trust they have placed her in the right spot for now. I will also add that bar skills are often the gatekeeper for kiddos to move up levels...and they are the skills most newbie parents (myself included) have a difficult time describing and understanding. My dd has floor and beam skills 1 an 2 levels above her bar skills...which, I have learned from CB posts, is not unusual. Most good gyms will only let them compete in the highest level where ALL events can be competed competently.
 
Just request a meeting with the coach to get a better feel for what they are thinking for your dd, for how their gym works in terms of progression, conditioning vs skills etc. No one knows these answers beyond the people in your gym.

There are a few things you can do for some background info though. You can look up some of the higher level girls on the scoring websites to see how they have progressed through the years - looking for trends. You can also try to talk with a few of the higher level parents.
 
^^great advice from both of you. I looked online at meet scores and looked through some of the forums for similar threads. Interestingly, our current gym does not have any gymnasts above level 7 and then only a few. Majority of team looks to be about level 4 and 5 (last year). The other gym we had considered switching to does have 8s, 9s, and 10s. Is that unusual not to have more gymnasts at higher levels? Or maybe it's not an issue considering DD is young...
 
Unfortunately, it is not unusual...but it is a key indicator of your gyms ability to meet the future needs of your child. If your dd sticks with this, you'll eventually need to switch gyms. We were at a gym similar to yours...only a handful of girls above level 5. We switched this summer, and dd is almost 9. It was hard to do, but I know it was the right decision. It would have been easier on dd to move sooner, except we have to drive a lot farther to get to the new gym. I wanted to make sure dd was committed long term before burdening the entire family. Based on the different training philosophy, dd would likely be more advanced if we had moved sooner...but she is making rapid progress. Lots of things to consider when you are comparing gyms...but the lack of upper level gymnasts is a red flag.
 
Could this be a gym that just progresses kids really slowly and that's why they are placing so many kids at level 1? They have not had a level 10 gymnast in many years from what I am seeing. There is no doubt that DD would be placed at a higher level at the other gym we looked at, and they definitely train harder there. Just felt they were a little too serious given her age.
 
The answer to almost all your questions is "it depends on how your gym does things". Our gym typically only moves girls once a year, at the same time of year, but I see on here that many gyms seem to move them whenever they feel the girl is ready. If your gym doesn't have many girl above level 5, if it were me, I think I would look around at the other gyms in my area, to see what they have to offer. Our gym graduated two Level 10's last year, who both got D1 scholarships, but they didn't have any Level 9's, so this year, they didn't have any Level 10's, and only about three Level 9's. But there are quite a few 7's and 8's. So while it isn't a huge red flag to not have any Level 10's, if they haven't had any in a long time, that may mean they just aren't equipped to train girls at that level. As far as communication, our gym isn't really all that great about that either, but I know my DD is getting great coaching in an environment that has very high expectations (and the results at the meets reflect this), yet manages to coach the girls in a very, very positive way. I can't really ask for more than that.
 
Could be wrong but your current gym sounds lovely and profitable, a very good business. I'd go back to the gym that has higher level gymnasts and watch a level 2 or 3 training session, see what their coaching is like and make the move.
 
They don't have to score out of any levels until new level 4. So they can enter anywhere from 1 to 4, and skip forward up to entering 4. To get to 5 you need a mobility score in 4.

Look -- some gyms do like to bring them along very slowly for any number of reasons. If she is very talented, pick the best gym for optionals in your area period, PROVIDED you approve of their training methods. Watch some practices and see how they talk to the girls.
 
I'm not saying you shouldn't keep your eyes open and be informed, but from my experience the gym with the level 9/10's is not always a better choice for a 6 year old who has never competed. I think DD's own gym is one of those gyms that is better for higher levels, but I couldn't recommend it for younger kids and lower levels. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they were at least a level 7. We have lots of parents who joke around about how they will leave and come back when they are level 7. There's no doubt it's the best gym to be at in our area for optionals, but its far from the best for the lower levels. I think because the optional team is so large and so good that the owners just don't really care too much about the lower levels. They aren't even too concerned about those lower kids feeding their optional program because they get all the transfers from the other gyms around here.

My DD came from a gym that had a great compulsory program and no real optional program. I wouldn't trade that first gym for anything. I don't think she would be where she is without them. Had we moved early to a gym like her current gym I think she would be in a vastly different position. So I am a big advocate of taking this one year at a time, especially when your DD is so young and hasn't even competed yet. If she's happy at her gym let her try competing first. You will learn a lot about which gym is the right place for her just by being at meets and seeing what is out there. You may find that her current gym is best for right now.

Also in our area coaches seem to move around a lot. The "it" gym for optionals changes every 3-4 years it seems. There are some consistently good gyms, but things change quickly.

To me it's a bit like moving to a school district that has the best high schools when your kid is in kinder. When my kid is in kinder I want her at the best elementary school. Then as she gets a few years away from high school I'll look at which high school is the best.
 
You could ask the coach at your gym--"I noticed you don't have any higher level optional gymnasts. Does your program not go that high?" The way they answer will tell you if the gym chooses not to offer it or the gymnasts or all just leaving before then (because they progress kids slowly, perhaps?)
 
I'm not saying you shouldn't keep your eyes open and be informed, but from my experience the gym with the level 9/10's is not always a better choice for a 6 year old who has never competed. I think DD's own gym is one of those gyms that is better for higher levels, but I couldn't recommend it for younger kids and lower levels. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they were at least a level 7. We have lots of parents who joke around about how they will leave and come back when they are level 7. There's no doubt it's the best gym to be at in our area for optionals, but its far from the best for the lower levels. I think because the optional team is so large and so good that the owners just don't really care too much about the lower levels. They aren't even too concerned about those lower kids feeding their optional program because they get all the transfers from the other gyms around here.

My DD came from a gym that had a great compulsory program and no real optional program. I wouldn't trade that first gym for anything. I don't think she would be where she is without them. Had we moved early to a gym like her current gym I think she would be in a vastly different position. So I am a big advocate of taking this one year at a time, especially when your DD is so young and hasn't even competed yet. If she's happy at her gym let her try competing first. You will learn a lot about which gym is the right place for her just by being at meets and seeing what is out there. You may find that her current gym is best for right now.

Also in our area coaches seem to move around a lot. The "it" gym for optionals changes every 3-4 years it seems. There are some consistently good gyms, but things change quickly.

To me it's a bit like moving to a school district that has the best high schools when your kid is in kinder. When my kid is in kinder I want her at the best elementary school. Then as she gets a few years away from high school I'll look at which high school is the best.

This is a GREAT point, and it is why my gut said not to switch her to the gym with the higher level gymnasts yet. The coach was so strict and not forgiving at all (so it seemed) of 5 yr old attention spans and behavior. They are also pushy with their homeschooling program. While she would probably be competing higher levels, I pictured her burning out by age 8 with that kind of rigidity.

However, I am certain that even if she is capable of doing more, they will just move her to level 2 next year. That's just how they roll. I literally watched one of the most amazing 5 yr olds I've ever seen in person doing crazy good tumbling and bar work a few weeks ago (her mom said it was only her second class ever), and no one batted an eye or suggested that she join the team immediately. This gym just flat out does not get excited. Our current gym's owner has been around since the 80s, and it's really more of a family run business than anything. They aren't making a killing financially I don't think, but they do seem good with the little ones. I really think if I asked the gym owner why the gym doesn't have higher level gymnasts, he would look at me like I am insane in the membrane since DD is level 1 team.

But at the end of the day, she has never been in a meet, so is it really a bad idea to stay put and move at a snail's pace for a few years at her age? As I read other threads on these forums, I was left with the impression that if she has talent, this is not a good idea--at least beyond this year assuming she does well
 

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