Vestibular questions

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GymGirl's Mom

Proud Parent
Ok so I am familiar with the vestibular system as it pertains to special needs kids- my son has sensory integration issues- among other special needs- and I have long been told he is a vestibular sensation seeker. He loves being upside down, spinning, flipping, bouncing, etc. He works in OT and PT to help "integrate" his sensations to make a long story short. I have read extensively on the topic as it pertains to special needs kids- can quote from "The Out of Sync Child", watched him in countless OT sessions as a swings on a platform, etc.

He is not the one I am asking about:

DD is my gymnast, and from what I can now see also may have vestibular issues. She is very strong, a perfectionist, a good listener, and eager to learn and it has so far transferred well to gymnastics. She is struggling with her ROBHS. Just can't get it without a light spot. She is also currently afraid of the pit bar- throws her off sends her into a panic, and is afraid of the "high skinny beam" she is training level 4 so still does most practices on the height that is permitted for L3-L4 but on occasion has been asked to get up on the even higher beam the height the optionals use and is all jelly legs on there.

So-- my questions are:
- Is this something she can overcome?
- How- is a just a patient coach and many repetitions issue or is it deeper more psychological (I realize you don't know her personally so this may be a hard one to answer)?
-Have you seen girls overcome this- or generally does it typically mean the end of gymnastics for them?
- Any advice, recommendations, ideas, etc. how to help her with this- I know she is interested in overcoming her fear- I just think she is not sure how to go about it.
-What do you do as a coach when you are working with a kid with these kind of fears/issues?

Right now she is struggling. It is not making her want to quit, or not try, or not go to gym, but she is having some fear issues and I would love to know how to help her if possible.
 
There is a great post here on CB titled[h=2]Back tumbling fear issues...help please.[/h]It is under the Question and Answer Forum, I'd link it if I could figure out how. ;) You'll find a really great post on the second page from "dunno."
 

So-- my questions are:


- Is this something she can overcome?

Yes, she will overcome it; the question is how long will it take? All kids differ, I have a student who struggles with her ro-bhs and she is 10, she can do a standing and has a strong round off, just the mere thought of putting them together is just too much for her at the moment. I also have 5/6 year olds who are connecting ro-bhs, so its variable.

- How- is a just a patient coach and many repetitions issue or is it deeper more psychological (I realize you don't know her personally so this may be a hard one to answer)?

Because the answer is time, you hit the nail on the head. Being patient, and NEVER even letting the kid think for a second that "something is wrong with them". Being very careful with what you say and switching up the drills often will make kids feel like they're making progress and strengthen them while they wait for their VS to catch up (vestibular system is such a pain for me to type out lol)

-Have you seen girls overcome this- or generally does it typically mean the end of gymnastics for them?

If an immature vestibular system was an incurable disease, I'm pretty sure gymnastics would be such a small sport it would've been forgotten long before now :p I have seen girls overcome this dozens of times in the five years I've been coaching; and that one girl i mentioned above who is 10? She is the only one in which it has persisted for an extended period of time.

- Any advice, recommendations, ideas, etc. how to help her with this- I know she is interested in overcoming her fear- I just think she is not sure how to go about it.

Be patient, and don't let her get frustrated with herself about it

-What do you do as a coach when you are working with a kid with these kind of fears/issues?

Stated above :D Patience, lots of variance in drills, alot of conditioning so when the vestibular system does catch up we pick up from where we left off.


EDIT: And tying in with what gymnastee was saying, here is the post quoted in its entirety.


The vestibular system, which contributes to our balance and our sense of spatial orientation, is the sensory system that provides the dominant input about movement and equilibrioception. Together with the cochlea, a part of the auditory system, it constitutes the labyrinth of the inner ear, situated in the vestibulum in the inner ear (Figure 1). As our movements consist of rotations and translations, the vestibular system comprises two components: the semicircular canal system, which indicate rotational movements; and the otoliths, which indicate linear accelerations. The vestibular system sends signals primarily to the neural structures that control our eye movements, and to the muscles that keep us upright. The projections to the former provide the anatomical basis of the vestibulo-ocular reflex, which is required for clear vision; and the projections to the muscles that control our posture are necessary to keep us upright.

i took this from a med site with the simplest explanation. this is our system of all things balance. the 2 important components are those that measure "rotational movements" & "linear accelerations" and as they relate to signals that are sent to neural structures that control our eye movements.

a couple of examples: a dad runs fast down the grocery aisle with their child in the cart facing forward. You've all seen this. the child usually screams, squeals and laughs from the "linear" (horizontal) speed that the child's vestibular system measures and sends to the eyes.

now turn the child facing the dad and do the same thing. you've all seen this also but may have never wondered why facing backward does not illicit the same response. in this instance, the child's vestibular system can not measure linear speed forward, hence no response as in the 1st example.

yet in either example you could find the child screaming in fear or screaming in joy and laughter no matter which direction you place the child in the cart.

next: Nasa and Air Force pilot schools. pilots flunk out regularly. when they achieve certain speeds they pass out. for some it is when they reach certain speeds coupled with "rolling". pilots have to be able to do both without passing out. some peoples vestibular systems can not handle the vestibular systems sensory input of over stimulation.

next: the old 'back seat driver' syndrome. you are driving the car @ 55 mph. your passenger says to slow down "your going to fast!" yet another passenger says "geez...ya think you can get us to the church on time? yer drivin like a granny!" and no offense to grannies.:) but when the passenger takes over the driving, they may well speed up or slow down compared to what the 1st driver did. this is all because of one's vestibular system. and whether they held the steering wheel (proprioception or 'feel' of the wheel) or not. depending where you sit (optic sensory system connected to the vestibular system) or not.

next: the roller coaster. some people get dizzy, throw up and pee themselves. others whoop and holler and can't wait to do it again. the blame falls squarely on one's vestibular system.

these are things that people just take for granted. but how does it translate to diving and gymnastics? and sometimes figure skating?? the vestibular system in human beings vary at/during different times of maturation. just as the body grows and matures to adulthood so does one's vestibular system. along the way, some children have more mature vestibular systems than others. and this includes but are not limited to disablilites that you may not know of or can clearly see.

the simple round off: a child runs forward (linear). the average speed is approx 4 mph. if they perform the round off correctly it will speed up (acceleration) before they hit their feet. they must also 1/4 turn down to the floor and 1/4 turn back up to their feet (rotational). so, it becomes like a math problem. forward run linear speed @ 4 mph>to 1/4 turn to upside down>to 1/4 turn to right side up to the feet= 5-7 mph increase of internal/linear force. the childs vestibular system is taking measurements of all the movement taking place...from the hands and feet being on the floor...and including that paucity of a moment when they are in space.

if you ask 2 children. 1 might state "whew, i was going so fast on my round off i couldn't see anything and that's why i sat down". the other states "geesh, i'm trying to go as fast as i can and i feel like i can't".

but when the coach observes the 1st the coach states "you couldn't have gone any slower if you tried!" and to the 2nd he states "worry not, you're moving fast enough". the coach observes complete opposites to what the kids 'feel'. yet it is the vestibular systems of 2 different children measured differently in a quantitative measurement and 'felt' differently in the kids compared to what the coach sees in the comparative analysis in the 'minds eye' of the coach.

now put in the flip-flop. the 1st child 'senses' that i have to much 'ooomph' (linear speed coupled with rotational force) and "i don't think i will be able to put my hands down on the floor and i might hit my head".

the 2nd child 'senses' that she doesn't have near enough 'ooomph' to "make it over" and "i might land on my head". can you all see the predicament?

now take a 3rd child. a child with an inexplicable but very mature vestibular system. has the worst technique and form that a coach has ever seen. so bad that...the coach won't even let the kid attempt a round off>flip-flop. this child 'senses' that no matter what...i'm not scared of what the other 2 are scared of and i'm going anyway even if my coach yells at me and tells my parents. and you all have seen this kid too in your gym.

you see, everyone calls the 3rd child the "fearless" one. but fearless is a medical misnomer. it really is about what is taking place in the vestibular system of all 3 children. hence, the "backwards problem". it will come and go as the kids mature. sometimes it will present itself once. for some kids it may be several times thru their career. in some it will be really bad and carry on for months. yet in others it lasts a couple of weeks. for some only a back walkover on beam. for most that have immature vestibular systems, it will present for all things going backwards on all events. there is no consistency with the kids...yet the consistency is in the how the individual's vestibular system measures and responds to all of the forces that are being placed upon it.

if parents can accept paying money when they see this problem going nowhere yet their kid loves it, and the coaches are patient during these periods of anxiety and explain it to the kids and parents, i have seen most kids mature thru and outgrow the problem. unfortunately, you can not predict when a child's vestibular system will mature and come in to its own.

to coaches: when you see this problem you now know that it is not due to lack of confidence or the child seeking negative attention or other various sundry statements i've heard over the years from under-educated coaches. the problem is real. speak to other professionals in the medical field.

and to parents: if any of you might be a neurologist...well then...no further explanation is needed, right?

:);)

p.s. before you ask... no amount of sports psychology, self help books or hypnotism can readily "cure" this problem.

Credit to dunno^

 
Wow! Thank you for quoting this out for us. I have read through some of the other thread and it is really interesting. My daughter just turned 7 and this info sheds a bunch of light. Note to self - Just let her be, mom :)
 

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