Where do you draw the line? Class size limits.

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aerialriver

Coach
Gymnast
I am having a big problem here. And please note before you reply I cannot change gyms. I am an adult and this gym is the only one that offers an adult class it is only 1 hour a week one night a week and they refuse to open another class at this point. The next closest gym that offers adult classes is several hundreds of miles from me. Anyways, every week the class is growing in numbers last week there were 18 people! We have 2 coaches that teach the class. They always get the class started 5 minutes late and end it a couple minutes early. Lately they have had problems keeping track of attendance and have been having to do a role call and write peoples names in this takes up at least another 5 minutes. We stretch for 15 minutes (which I know we have to do) but after all that it leaves about 32 minutes left for actual class, this is split between 2 events so about 16 minutes for each divided between 9 people is less than 2 minutes for each person on each event. I want to know as gym owners, coaches and parents where do you think the line should be drawn? How many people max are allowed in your classes? Also do you think it would be rude of me to ask the owner if they could lengthen the class? It is my only option right now and I don't want to tick off the owner. Should I even be as bold as to raise my concerns with her? Sorry for the long post! Any replies are much appreciated!

Aerialriver
 
Well a 9:1 ratio really isn't that extreem for a group of ADULTS. As adults I would think you know how to behave so they don't have to worry about that and I would assume you're not going to try to do skills without the coach for a spot when you first learn them etc. So the lower ratios you see for kids really isn't necessary. Your description of time allocation and number of folks on the equipment sounds about right for a Rec Class of 45 min to an hour for kids so I would think it would be right for an adult too.

I guess you have to ask your self why are you doing this class? Is it because you love doing gymnastics and can't imagine doing anything else or are you just looking for a workout? If its the workout your looking for there are other options other than gymnastics like a local workout club, karate, dance classes etc where the ratios might be more to what you are hoping for.

If your really unhappy though I would bring up your concerns to the coaches and the owner. They can't change if they don't think folks think it needs to be changed
 
Cher062, The class is a children's class that happens to allow adults. The children DO NOT know how to utilize the time well. I happen to be rather serious about it and I am doing it to improve my skills, not for exercise
 
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Then perhaps private lessons would fit your needs better. If it is marketed as a kids' class, then they should have precedence in the class organization, IMO.
 
Gymcat, The website states "Tuesday night T&T class adults welcome" Honestly why do you think kids should be favored over the adults when A) It clearly states adult are welcome and B) The adults pay the same exact amount as the kids, there is no discount for being an adult. From the answers I have received I feel you are personally attacking me rather than answering my question in any way. I am simply asking for advice on what to do and what class size limits your gym has. I am not looking for statements on how kids should have favor in the class or how I should find some other class for exercise. If you cannot answer my question then please do me a favor and just don't reply.
 
No need to get defensive. Defintily did not intend to make you feel we are attacking you.

First, sounds like your in this for the long haul and I hope you do well in this.

Next I can't say I've ever heard of a gym that mixes the adults with the kids. I think that could be the source of some of your frustration with the class. I find this mixing of adults with kids interesting - What is the age range of the kids that the adults are learning with?

Our gym had an adults class a few years ago but after they started the class the owners got the liability insurance increase in the premeium and it was through the roof so the owners cancelled the adult class. they had a good 20 or so adults in the class that were sorry to see it go.

Our gym had the following ratios

Mom and me and Tot classes 6:1
Pre-school classes 8:1
School aged classes 10:1
when they had the adult class there were 2 coaches for 20 - 25 adults.

I would definitly think about talking to the owner and coaches. I think that the kids will be favored over the adults because they need more guidance than an adult would simply because they are kids.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you.
 
How many teens/adults attend the class regularly? Maybe you could see if the gym owners and coaches would be willing to start a separate class for teens and adults. The gym I coach at has one of those that I believe is very well attended. Maybe they could schedule it for a little later at night after the rec. classes are done so you aren't in anyone's way or anything. If there is a market for that kind of class where you are, that could be a big money maker for the gym. My gym also has a special adult open gym which is really popular, but we're in a college town so I'm not sure if there would be as much interest where you are.
My boss is really young so he loves these classes because it gives him a chance to mess around in the gym with people his age and just do gymnastics for pure fun. Everyone has a blast. If there are enough people interested that the gym could make enough money to pay for a coach and make a little money, it sounds reasonable to me.
 
Cher062, Thank you very much for your input! I think I felt more attacked from the other poster than I did you, as they were basically degrading me for being an adult. I don't know how young the youngest child is but I would guess around 6, the oldest adult is in her late 30's. They do try to break it up so that the little kids are in one group with the older kids, teens and adults in the other. Another source of my frustration is that I took gym for many many years as a kid and I know the gym "rules" if you will. For example we are sometimes told to go to the tumble trampoline track to practice our front flips. I know this to mean you do 3 or 4 quickly and move on. Many others mostly the older teens I guess get to having fun and will do like 15 flips jumping 12 times before each one not realizing that there are now 8 people in line behind them waiting to go. That slows the whole class down. I did end up e-mailing the onwer to inquire as to if they might offer another class that adults are allowed in or if they might consider making the class longer due to the size increase. I figure that not every one is going to want to pay more so I say make it a 2 hour class and make the second hour optional. I would still love to hear other thoughts on this, especially what your class sizes look like teacher to student ratio.
 
Gymcat, The website states "Tuesday night T&T class adults welcome" Honestly why do you think kids should be favored over the adults when A) It clearly states adult are welcome and B) The adults pay the same exact amount as the kids, there is no discount for being an adult. From the answers I have received I feel you are personally attacking me rather than answering my question in any way. I am simply asking for advice on what to do and what class size limits your gym has. I am not looking for statements on how kids should have favor in the class or how I should find some other class for exercise. If you cannot answer my question then please do me a favor and just don't reply.

I'm sorry that you felt offended by my response. Your first post stated that it was a children's class that adults are allowed in, hence my original opinion-- as a coach and, technically, an adult gymnast-- that it is primarily geared toward children. Obviously that is not the case, as you later posted. If there is close to a 50:50 ratio with kids/adults, then perhaps they could split the class. It would also depend on how old the kids are-- if they're over 10 or so, then the ratio sounds all right. I'm not sure why anyone would put kids younger than that age with adults; that just sounds like an organizational disaster (which, clearly, it is). And I maintain that privates sound like they would be geared more toward your goals because you would have a more intense workout with closer supervision. Maybe if there are like-minded adults, you could split the cost of privates?

FWIW, my gym runs preschool classes at no higher than 6:1. Tumbling/cheer classes are more like 8-10:1.
 
i think you have every right to voice any problems you see in a that you are playing to use. our class size wouldn't be a problem is the time you had was longer, it's alot easier to extend a class time than create a new class or ask people to leave the class.
i would defiantly be talking to someone about it though. i don't think private classes are the way to go,i think they are good if you want to learn a specific skill but i think they talk away alot from the fun of gymnastics cause you don't have people to share those great moment with. let me know how everything works out
 
Every member of every class is of equal importance. Age has nothing to do with who is more important. You are all members of the class, you all pay to be there, so you all have a right to expect equal treatment.

The problem you describe is one seen in most recreational classes, it is not just in adult classes. Most kids don't notice the time wasting, but an adult does.

18 people to 2 coaches is a quite normal ratio for a gymnastics class. And you can get a really good class if the coaches organize it well. As someone else mentioned, there is no need to be standing in line waiting for 2 minutes on an apparatus, there should be a number of different stations set up so that everyone is busy. many coaches start classes late and again there really is no excuse for it. You are paying for an hour, the coaches are being paid to coach you for an hour. The marking of rolls can be done during class like when you are stretching.

I would definatly recommend that you do speak to the owner about this. They are really the only one who can make a change. You do have legitimate concerns, and the owner does need to know how the customers are feeling.

As someone else suggested are privates an option for you? You sound quite serious about your gymnastics and keen to progress. Perhaps private lessons would be a good way to go, that way you can really streamline your training and focus on what you want to focus on.
 
Have you spoken with the other adults in the class? If they're frustrated too, then as a group, you could approach the owner about an adult only class. Sounds like this class was doomed from the start with the vast mix of ages, maturity levels and skill levels. Do the coaches seem interested in what each gymnast is trying to accomplish or do you get the feeling they just got the class "dumped" on them and are simply putting in the time? Sounds like they need to spend more time monitoring to reduce the stalling and fooling around with some of the kids.

I think the idea of asking for a seperate class maybe at a later hour is a great idea.

Good luck and hope things work out well.
 
How many of each age group adults,teen and kids are in the class? Are there enough to have an all adult (and maybe older teen) class?

I don't think the ratio is the issue. I think your biggest issue is that the kids are part of the class with adults. How you would teach a yonung group and how you would teach adults are very different - also kids have no concept of how much time or how many turns they are taking and need an adult/coach to tell them its time to move on. Adults are mindful of others and take the turn and time they are supposed to take. I would say that the suggestion to split the class up that the adults work on one piece of equipment while the kids who do "fool around and take longer" are in another group is a good one and may solve the issues you are having. The hard part will be to convince the gym of this.

Our gym for the rec classes first divides by age then by ability. so we have the 6 - 8 year olds together the 9 - 12 yo together the 13 -15 yo together and the High school cheerleaders in for tumbling classes together. I just can't imagine having adults in with 6yo for a class.
 
This sounds really like general organizational problems rather than a ratio problem. If I have my 3's classes capped at 8, a 9:1 ratio of school age kids to adults wouldn't faze me.

Really, ending up with many lines is because of the general organization. If a fair amount of the participants are able to do things without constant direction and redirection, then the class just isn't being run well if enough isn't set up so things keep moving. Occasionally you have classes where things might have to be a little more static so everyone survives and learns some form of gymnastically recognizable skills, but otherwise I worship at the altar of circuits.

Honestly, I find the age range described unreasonable. I would be fine with a class that was like middle school and up, or high school and up, but throwing young elementary school kids in there is just too much. I teach a completely different kind of class for that age. They are just small and need to move more and have more attention attracting devices, rule repetition, etc. Older and doesn't need that is ready to cut out some of the bear walking and listen to more verbal explanations of basics and technique. I guess the ages are being seperated out but it still seems like things would get a little crazy any which way.

Extending a class to 2 hours would probably be hard to schedule on some gym's time tables, especially if it runs fairly late. A lot of gyms are chronically understaffed, or just can't add classes to what they already have going during those hours (due to space). If you're looking for serious training though, it sounds like this isn't really the class - it seems more to be attracting those who want to flip around and possibly socialize while doing so. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but depending on how successful the owners feel that model is, it may not really change to meet your expectations. I agree it's worth addressing with the owners though - certainly before you sign up again.
 
My gym mixes kids and adults too. It's really annoying though, because the gym owners and coaches don't organize class times (and won't bother to do so even if anyone brings it up) and anyone who isn't team -kids or adults, just anyone- doesn't get a fair share of practice time or space. We usually get stuck in whatever empty corner we can find to stretch, condition, and work handstands. Good for the body but we're paying to work skills too. If you're not on the team, you can't use any apparatus if the team is on it. The team brats even tell off other kids for using apparatus during "their exclusive" practice time! I understand that the team has priority, particularly when they have meets coming up. But their attitudes suck. The one good thing is that the gym is open for all students to come in and get 4 hours of practice a day. But with the team getting the run of the small place, it's a matter of whether any space to practice is available. It's irritating. And no one has the common to sense to utilize taking turns with the limited space. Everyone is running around getting sidelined by the team. And there is no coach for the adults. We get minimal coaching by request.
Your situtation sounds just as irritating as mine, aerialriver. I know how you feel. In fact, I've stopped going to gymnastics this past 2 months or so because I don't want to pay for no coaching, stretching and conditioning because I do that on my own at home every day for no charge. Unfortunately, that annoying gym is the only one in my area so if I ever feel like working skills I can't do at the park...grr!
 
Glad you e-mailed the owner. YOu shouldn't feel like you might upset them--it's their job to make sure YOU are happy. You are the customer after all :).
 

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