WAG xcel to JO level comparison?

[SHELOVESGYM]

I've seen various charts that are all over the place -can someone clarify this? I know XB is most similar 2, XS ranges from about 3/4 and XG is approximately 5/6 -but as certain skills are not required in Xcel (for example the clear hip -the levels are watered down a bit compared to JO). What skills are required for XP and what JO level is it most like? And for diamond?

 

[z2akids]

Our coaches equate XG as 3,4,5 and XP as approximately 5,6,7. The girls need more skills than required at 6, but cast angles and leap/jumps are not as strict. The FHS vault is a 10.0 start at 5,6,7 and is only a 9.8 at XP. My DD hopes to return to JO levels after XP and when she does, it will be as a L7.

Our Diamond has skills in between L7 and L8. There isnt much XD competition in our area. Most girls with skills that high compete JO L7 until they can move on to L8.

DD competing XP is doing kip, cast, CH, kip, squat on, kip, cast, fly away on bars. That is not the only bar routine we have seen at XP, but is probably the most common.

 

[profmom]

Around here, XD minimum is around L7, but I've seen skills competed in XD that one would see in L9 (on my DD's team, there are a few double back dismounts on bars, at least one piked Yurchenko, a beam acro that's HS-BHS-BHS, and some upgraded tumbling).

 

[fuzi]

My take on it:
XB=JO2
XS=JO3.5
XG=JO4.5
XP=JO6
XD=JO7.5

 

[coachmolly]

I think it varies very widely. At our gym the Bronze kids are probably 2/3, Silver 3/4 with some beam/floor routines closer to level 5, Gold 5/6 (bar routines are easier than a level 5 bar routine, though), Platinum 6, Diamond 7/8. I think this holds true for most of the more competitive/serious Xcel programs. Gyms with Platinum/Diamond kids that started in the JO program sometimes have higher level skills.
Some of the gyms we compete against I would say correspond to a lower level. Bronze as more of a level 1/rec., Silver level 2/3, Gold 4, etc. It's interesting to see the differences.

 

[mls529]

At our Xcel only gym, it is more like coachmolly.
Bronze: Level 2
Silver: Level 3 -- some silvers will do a couple of level 4 skills on floor.
Gold: Mainly 5/6 -- some will be closer to level 4 on bars
Platinum: 5-7
Diamond: 7-9+

Where an individual gymnast competes within that range varies by region/gym/overall philosophy/etc.

What I see is the highest skills on floor for sure. Those typically seem to be competed on the top end of the range, at least for Gold (e.g. our last two meets, I think almost everyone competed a RO-BHS-BT and a FHS-FT or FT, plenty of switch leaps in leap combinations -- I would classify this as 5/6 on floor.). Bars require a horizontal cast (level 5?) but not everyone kips, and no clear hip (level 5), but almost everyone has a flyaway (level 5/6). Beam requires a full turn (level 5/6) and most do a BWO (level 5) or BWO series (level 6ish).

IMO, The biggest difference is in the number of requirements. While the big skills is how you may compare to JO levels, there seem to be fewer overall requirements. So, the tumbling passes in Gold may be like L5, but there aren't any required back extension rolls, required jumps, etc. -- all those things in JO that add in deductions. As a result, it seems like overall scores are higher in Xcel, but it also takes a crazy high score to get on the podium. A score in the mid-36s around our area may put you in top 10 AA, but it takes high 37s or even 38 to get on the podium. It wasn't like that in JO.

Honestly, the flexibility is awesome, because a girl can compete higher level skills on her best event, but keep it simple on the events where they are struggling or having fears.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

At our gym, it's just too wide a range to pinpoint. Comparisons are all over the place because the skills are all over the place. I know at our gym, the girls who compete a season of platinum either repeat (the weakest of the group, skill-wise), are ready for level 6, or are ready for level 7 (the strongest).

There is virtually no one competing Diamond in our region. Anyone who sticks it out that long seems to move to optionals.

 

[SHELOVESGYM]

At our gym, it's just too wide a range to pinpoint. Comparisons are all over the place because the skills are all over the place. I know at our gym, the girls who compete a season of platinum either repeat (the weakest of the group, skill-wise), are ready for level 6, or are ready for level 7 (the strongest).

There is virtually no one competing Diamond in our region. Anyone who sticks it out that long seems to move to optionals.

How do they make the switch? They score out of 4 and 5? Do they have trouble reaching the new mobility scores?

 

[z2akids]

How do they make the switch? They score out of 4 and 5? Do they have trouble reaching the new mobility scores?

For my DD, she competed 2 years at L4 and scored out of L5 prior to switching to XP. She didn't have to hit the new L4 score because she had already competed. However, other than her 1st L4 meet, she would have met the current mobility score. Once she has her bars where they need to be, she will compete L7, if she wants to go back go JO levels. She is enjoying all the freedom of Xcel.

 

[2G1B]

I do think it varies widely. What I have seen is
XB - typically L1/L2 with some L3 thrown in sometimes (backhandspring mostly).
XS - L3/L4
XG - L4/L5/L6 with some bars being easier than L4 since some don't kip; but many are kipping and doing fly away.
XP - L5/L6/L7 - split and cast angle requirements are lower than L6/L7; but more skills are required than for L6. Beam you have to have a connection or flight where for 6 you can do just a cartwheel. Floor you need that second pass with a connected salto or a b salto (where for L6 you can just do a front tuck). So... If you have good split jump/leap angles and decent cast height; but lack some of the skills needed for platinum then L6 might score better. On the flip side, if split angles and casts aren't your strengths; but you have more skills, then you might score better in platinum.
XD - L7+, and it seems to be all over the place.

In our region it seems that a lot of gyms do some sort of mobility back and forth between Xcel and JO. A common one seems to be to do Xcel until ready for optionals and then one L4 meet and one L5 meet. Another common one seems to be to do JO L3, then JO l4, then Gold, then L6 or L7 after just one L5 meet. I have seen some gyms do L3, then a score out of Silver and compete gold, then score out of L4 and L5 and skip to L6 or L7.

I do think that a gym doing Xcel the way that it is intended in R8 would likely not score well since very few gyms seem to use USAG Xcel as lower hours. I do think that AAU Xcel is used that way here though.

 

[raenndrops]

I've seen various charts that are all over the place -can someone clarify this? I know XB is most similar 2, XS ranges from about 3/4 and XG is approximately 5/6 -but as certain skills are not required in Xcel (for example the clear hip -the levels are watered down a bit compared to JO). What skills are required for XP and what JO level is it most like? And for diamond?

It wold be easier to just look at the requirements / skill level limits for each Xcel Division to determine where the equivalent would be for your gym because some gyms allow gymnasts to compete the MINIMUM for a division and some require close to the MAXIMUM.

Looking JUST at Bars, XP is most similar to L6 with the exception that there is an "A Cast" in Xcel ... so the extra A skill required could be that wouldn't count in L6. Also, L6 ONLY requires a cast TO horizontal... XP requires a cast ABOVE horizontal. Another difference is that L6 requires a B clear circling skill. XP just requires a circling skill and a B skill - not necessarily the circling one (uprise, flyaway 1/2, cast handstand).
At XD, the requirements for Bars are pretty much the same as L7... HOWEVER, they are allowed to do any C skills they want and even 1 D skill... and the 2nd B skill can be a release or pirouette instead of a second circling skill.

 

[sce]

Our coaches equate XG as 3,4,5 and XP as approximately 5,6,7. The girls need more skills than required at 6, but cast angles and leap/jumps are not as strict. The FHS vault is a 10.0 start at 5,6,7 and is only a 9.8 at XP. My DD hopes to return to JO levels after XP and when she does, it will be as a L7.

Our Diamond has skills in between L7 and L8. There isnt much XD competition in our area. Most girls with skills that high compete JO L7 until they can move on to L8.

DD competing XP is doing kip, cast, CH, kip, squat on, kip, cast, fly away on bars. That is not the only bar routine we have seen at XP, but is probably the most common.

What is her beam and floor?

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

Yes, at our gym they score out of 4 and 5 in the off season.

 

[mls529]

How do they make the switch? They score out of 4 and 5? Do they have trouble reaching the new mobility scores?

Some gyms -- like our old gym -- allows movement from JO to Xcel, but does not allow movement from Xcel into JO except at levels 3 or 4 from outside gyms. So I think it depends on the gym rules and how they perceive the Xcel program.

As far as hitting mobility, it totally depends on your gymnast and at what level. I can tell you that moving from JO to a lower-hour Xcel program, my gymnast definitely lost strength and some form. I have heard from other friends that their gyms use platinum for gymnasts between level 5 and 7, especially if the gymnast is having fears, so these girls wouldn't have to score out since 6 is optional, and can then move to level 7. My DD did score out of 5, which is a tough scoring level, so I could imagine that it may be hard for some Gold or Platinum gymnasts to hit the level 5 score out if and when they move back to JO.

Is your daughter considering Xcel?

 

[z2akids]

What is her beam and floor?

Beam - a mount where she swaps legs, a split jump/tuck jump, full turn, BHS (well, she did that at her last meet spotted, but should have it by the next meet), a bunch of dance and a cartwheel back tuck. I think that is it. Before she did the BHS, she did CWCW into her back tuck.

Floor - bhsbt (working on her layout), fhsft (working on her pike - although still not consistentlt landing the fhsft in her feet), leap pass with a switch leap and not sure what else, 1.5 turn, a bunch of dance stuff. I think those are her main skills.

Her XP team has 8 girls and they are pretty similar in skill level. A few with layouts on floor, one does a front pike without a fhs, 2 with CHS on bars. They all now have flight on beam - BHS or RO. 1 does a back pike off beam.

Our XP does chenko timer, giants, layout and is working on twisting, Bhs and CwCW on beam. I am sure there is more, but I dont stay for practice and have only seen her routine at 1 meet.

Our XG girls are more varied. All kip, about 1/2 do fly aways and none do CH circles. Most do bhsbt with a couple still doing bhsbhs. A couple do Fhsft, most do ft and one or two do fhsfhs. On beam they range from CW to CwCW to BWO. And most have a fT dismount

 

[raenndrops]

Beam - a mount where she swaps legs, a split jump/tuck jump, full turn, BHS (well, she did that at her last meet spotted, but should have it by the next meet), a bunch of dance and a cartwheel back tuck. I think that is it. Before she did the BHS, she did CWCW into her back tuck.

Floor - bhsbt (working on her layout), fhsft (working on her pike - although still not consistentlt landing the fhsft in her feet), leap pass with a switch leap and not sure what else, 1.5 turn, a bunch of dance stuff. I think those are her main skills.

Her XP team has 8 girls and they are pretty similar in skill level. A few with layouts on floor, one does a front pike without a fhs, 2 with CHS on bars. They all now have flight on beam - BHS or RO. 1 does a back pike off beam.

Our XP does chenko timer, giants, layout and is working on twisting, Bhs and CwCW on beam. I am sure there is more, but I dont stay for practice and have only seen her routine at 1 meet.

Our XG girls are more varied. All kip, about 1/2 do fly aways and none do CH circles. Most do bhsbt with a couple still doing bhsbhs. A couple do Fhsft, most do ft and one or two do fhsfhs. On beam they range from CW to CwCW to BWO. And most have a fT dismount

Our XG team (9 girls) vary wildly.
On floor: ROBHS and FT, ROBHS and FHSRO, ROBT and FT, FHSRO and FHSFHS, Aerial and FHSRO.
On beam: CWCW, HS and CW, HS and HS straight jump. FHS dismount, RO dismount, FT dismount.
On bars: no kips, only a few squat one, some jump to front support on high bar and others swing under high bar. Dismounts are underswing or flyaway or L4 dismount.
Vault: This year, they all do 1/2 On - repulsion off except 1 girl does 1/4-1/4.
Platinum (5 girls).
Bars: kip on low bar or high bar mostly. All but 1 missing the B skill, but YG is close to clear hip and flyaway 1/2.
Beam: CWCW, CW-dive CW, HSHS. Pike jump, tuck jump 1/2, scale on toe. FT dismount, Barani dismount, RO dismount.
Floor: ROBT and FP, ROBT and ROBHS, ROBT and FHSRO, ROBT and FHSROBHS.
Vault: FHS, 1/2 On - repulsion off. YG is training 1/2-1/2.

 

[Rose7777]

I agree that it varies a lot gym to gym. At my daughter's gym...
Golds:
Vault: they all do front handspring vaults
Beam: a few do a back walkover and a back handspring for their acro. The rest do back walkover and cartwheel. For their dismount, a few do handstand quarter turn, most do front tucks, and one does a cartwheel back tuck
Bars: Almost all do a kip mount. All do squat on to high bar. Dismounts are evenly split between fly aways and half turns.
Floor: Back tumbling pass is ROBHSBT for half, ROBHSBLO for the rest. Second pass is either FHSFT or punch front.

Platinums:
Vault: Most do one FHS and then a different one for their second (I think it's half on half off)
Beam: Most do a BWOBHS series. A few do a BHS and then a BWOBT dismount.
Bars: All kip mount, all have a clear hip. Dismount is either flyaway or laid out fly away.
Floor: Most compete a ROBHSfull for one pass and FHSFT, although a couple have a FHSFP.

 

[momof2gymmies]

It does vary widely.

Mine are silver and platinum. Silver DD:
vault - silver vault
Beam - full turn, bwo, gainer dismont
Bars - kip, bhc, squat on, jump, kip, bhc, tapswing turn dismount
floor - robhsbt and cwbhs.

Platinum DD
Vault - half on half off
Beam - fwobhs. bwobt as her dismount
Bars - kip, cast, bhc, squat on, jump, uprise, clear hip, kip, underswing dismount. (She has lost her flyaway. Been over a year. Every other platinum does either a flyaway with a half twist or a flyaway layout.
Floor - robhsblo, fhsfp

When DD was a gold last year:
vault - FHS
Beam bhs and bwobt dismount
bars - same as this year with no clear hip and with her fly away
Floor - robhsbt and fhsft

 

[SHELOVESGYM]

Is your daughter considering Xcel?

My daughter moved to x cel recently. She has definitely lost strength and form -but she has picked up a lot of skills. I never thought this would be an issue but I'm actually concerned that x cel won't have enough room for her to grow with the program and that she will want to do optionals but that at that point she will have a tough time scoring out of 4 and 5 (or that the gym won't be open to having her do this as there's not a lot of mobility btwn the 2 programs at her gym). I'm realizing that the most advanced girls in x cel at our gym are doing skills that are maybe level 7 (if that) and I'm wondering if we need to make a switch now.

 

[raenndrops]

My daughter moved to x cel recently. She has definitely lost strength and form -but she has picked up a lot of skills. I never thought this would be an issue but I'm actually concerned that x cel won't have enough room for her to grow with the program and that she will want to do optionals but that at that point she will have a tough time scoring out of 4 and 5 (or that the gym won't be open to having her do this as there's not a lot of mobility btwn the 2 programs at her gym). I'm realizing that the most advanced girls in x cel at our gym are doing skills that are maybe level 7 (if that) and I'm wondering if we need to make a switch now.

At 14, she would be able to petition into L7 i she had those skills.