Parents Xcel vs JO ( separation)

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RileyG

Proud Parent
Disclaimer, this ismlong has some backstory where I speak in old level numbers.

My dd did JO up thru old level 4. Then our gym decided to beef up their Xcel program. At the time ( it was late spring) they said she could either compete level 4 again but she would not move up to Level 5 because she was missing one skill the kip onto the high bar. They alsomsaid theynwould not be giving the summer as a chance to get the skill before competition season started in fall. They were deciding levels then.

So they told us she had that choice or she could move over to Xcel and compete Gold. She knew she didnt want to compete level 4 again, wasnt sure about Xcel, so even though she said she didnt want to switch gyms she decided to go to another gym for evaluation.

We did that, she did a 4 hour practice with their level 4/5 team, which was awesome. The coach had a sit down with me, said she did great and he would put her on the level 5 team. Even though the kip was not there, he was confident from what he saw it would be by competition season. ( this was june)

So anyway....dd thought about it wasnt sure didnt want to leave her friends, severalmof whom were jumping over to xcel. So she decided to try xcel and see. Coach of the other team said if she changed her mind over summer she was still welcome to join them.

So after the first month of practice she said she really liked xcel and wanted to stay.
She competed Gold last year and is finishing up this year as Gold. She is to move to Platinum for next year. Back then she was also told she could come back over to JO if she ever wanted to, but after the first months of practice she loved xcel and has said from the beginning she doesnt want to go back.

So from the beginning the head coach ( who coaches JO) seems to treat the two teams differently even though she says we are one big team. The xcel coach is wonderful, she is great i have no complaint about her. The most recent thing that came up has me kind of annoyed and really wishing my dd would be open to trying another gym. Things like asking the team for pictures for something she is putting together of the team but not sending out an email to xcel parents. My dd made a comment that the thing she put together last year had mostly JO pictures very little Xcel. And she hopes its not like that this year. I remember submitting several pics, saw maybe 2 in it.

Also my dd was telling me that after states they all sit down together and talk about how that person did or level did. She said one night after some had been to states on JO side when they all sat to hear about it she said the Xcel girls were told to go do pull ups and she said the girls felt like " gee why all of a sudden arent we included"

There are lots of other little things that come up. I dont even know why I am posting this, to vent. But I am also curious if other gyms have division between the two sides or if they are treated as one big team? Our gym is on the small side. The team is growing and i thinkmwe have about 20 total on xcel and about the same on JO.

Thoughts? Would you say anything about the things you see and the things the girls pick up on?
 
There is a division at Dd's gym. Xcel is a rec program team and has different coaches and practice times and different leos from JO.
 
Ours is pretty much one big team. They go to the same meets. The Xcel group has the same leos as the compulsory girls (optionals have more "bling"). They're included in the banquet, the team slide show, etc. Girls do cross back and forth between the two groups. The HC is reluctant to let a promising JO girl go over to Xcel, but it does still happen. Our Xcel coach is one of the most qualified coaches in the gym, and she is highly sought out for privates, even by JO girls.
 
I am tempted to say something to the xcel coach on the observations. And i am not the only one who notices it, but when the girls start to notice, thats when it really starts to bother me.
 
I am tempted to say something to the xcel coach on the observations. And i am not the only one who notices it, but when the girls start to notice, thats when it really starts to bother me.
I think you SHOULD speak up. 1- Your team isn't that big if it is only about 40 girls. 2- They should be treated as one big team. ... Our team all goes to the same meets. We have the meetings about how meets went and all levels and divisions are acknowledged.
On our team, we are all one big team... and I mean big (at least by our standards). We had 18 L3, 15 L4, 4 L6, 2 L7, 7 Xcel Gold, and 2 Xcel Platinum. We will have even more next season as we move girls up from rec... and only expect to lose 2-3 girls. (This is up from when we started in 2008 and had a total of 12 girls on the team). It is possible that we will have 14 in Xcel Gold and 5 in Xcel Platinum next season... plus up to 20 L3, 15 L4, 5 L5, 4 L6, 3 L7, and 2 L8.
 
I do see a little of this in our gym - not as bad perhaps as you describe. Our JO and Xcel have different meets, different leos, and mostly different coaches, so it is probably more of a 'different team' feel, rather than 'we're all the same team' feel. Xcel and JO are both in the official team picture on the wall (along with the boys team as well). Both JO and Xcel get to put their names on the wall for skills or scores, attained etc.

The thing that bothers me sometimes is more in the public attention given to JO successes, particularly optionals, compared to Xcel. I would say 90% of the girls highlighted in any email/newsletter announcement, social media picture or shout-out, etc., are the JO optional girls. Even random practice pictures from the gym are nearly 100% of JO girls, mostly optionals. Even though we have some Xcel Gold (or higher?) girls doing some advanced floor passes they could easily show off if that's the point.

And our Xcel team, on the whole, takes more podium places as a team and individuals than our JO team, but they get less 'press'. It does bother me. I haven't personally seen anything more overt, like the pullups instead of joining the States discussion.

If you feel comfortable with the coaches enough to say something, it might help. They might not be aware.
 
At our old gym it was separate and they were treated very bad. They were barely given time to practice on all the apparatuses. They were asked to attend Xmas party as an after thought and not participate in grab bag at all. They wore different Leo's and the owner didn't order warmups til two weeks before first meet. She made a back handed comment to one of the JO parents that she was not really concerned about XCEL her main focus was the girls and boys team.
At our new gym xcel gold, platinum and diamond wear Same Leo. So I'm assuming silver does as well (they haven't competed yet ) we have a laaaarrrrrrge team (75) and that does not include xcel. It looks like they have about 15-20 between all their levels.
 
At our gym - which is very large - they are two separate teams, but treated equally. They have the same warm ups, same leos but different colors, both have a separate team banquet, both are highlighted on the website and fb for acheivements. They do have separate coaches, and honestly the excel coaches are the ones that are sought after. We go some of the same meets, and some separate meets.
 
At our gym, they are two completely different teams. Different coaches and different leotards. They also go to mostly all different meets.
 
At our gym they are one big team. They have the same leos and condition together and have the same HC. They do practice separately. The HC does make some girls feel more important, but our gym is IGC focused, so the IGC girls are most valued.
 
We've been to two gyms on both sides, Xcel at the old gym, JO at the new one. In both JO and Xcel are treated separately - different practice times, different coaches, different meets, etc. Never bothered me or my DD.
At our current gym, even different levels don't discuss the meet results together. Level 2-3 practice together, so they discuss their meets; Level 4-5 practice together, they discuss their meets, etc.
Now, the picture thing would probably bother me. Can you talk to the person who is in charge? If they don't want to put the equal amount of pictures, maybe suggest making two different albums - one for JO, and one for Xcel?
 
Our gym separates them. Partly it's because the JO girls that are at their level (compulsory) have a totally opposite competitive season. We have been at some of the same meets as our optional girls (DD competes Xcel Bronze) but we don't travel together and don't share coaches. We have different leos (from what I hear the other girls like the Xcel leos better!). We have struggled for floor time because our gym is small and we're competing the same season as our optional girls. We basically only get to work the floor one night a week.

This is the first year Xcel has really been included in the "team" stuff as far as I've been told. They are invited to the banquet that's for all our teams (we have a boys team and an acro team as well). We practice at our own times, but there is significant overlap in the team practices (i.e. our practice time is 6-8, compulsories is 3:30-6:30, optionals is 5:30-9) so everyone is in the gym together. We have recently started some "teambuilding" efforts to encourage the kids to socialize a bit across the teams, which has been fun.

I think it's important for every team kid to feel like the gym is invested in them. They should all have the same warm ups or leos or some sort of all group efforts that include everyone. It's natural for there to be some separation just simply because they are all competing different things. But the lack of photos in the slide show, that sort of thing, that's I think more a function of crappy communication and whoever is in charge with this than the gym as a whole potentially. For us it's our Board that puts stuff together like that, not the gym. The push up thing bugs me, especially if they normally all sit together and discuss (this isn't the case at our gym) and I'd definitely bring stuff like that up.
 
They are completely separate at our gym. Totally different coaches, meets, leotards and warm-ups. The goal behind the different leos and warm-ups is to keep things cheaper for the Xcel kiddos. Also, Xcel practices way less (we only have Bronze & Silver) and their start time is an hour after the JO girls start practice, so it wouldn't make sense for them to all practice together. We do have some team bonding events planned that all team and pre-team kids will attend, including Xcel.
 
Completely separate programs at our gym . There is no crossover whatsoever - different coaches, leos, meets, etc..... Excel girls only practice with our rec coaches for a few hours a week. It's a big gym though, so everyone is kind of in their own little world. There is not even a lot of mingling between levels or compulsory/optional.
 
We use xcel instead of compulsories so I don't have the issue of it being separate. Our little ones come up from our developmental (pre) team at 5 and 6 and compete Bronze focusing on basics and simple clean routines. We focus on teaching good solid technique and basics and introduce good dance and finishes at this level. Then at 6 or 7 they compete Xcel silver which for us is comparative of level 2-4 skills. We make a clean routine and fit in each kids skills as they get them solid. Then they compete a year of xcel gold as they train level 7. All of our Gold gymnasts start with equivalent of level 4 routines and have level 6/7 routines by the time they compete at Xcel gold state. Our xcel silver year really builds on the basics we focused on in bronze and they tend to improve really well when all of our time is not consumed with drilling the compulsory dance. Then after the season of Gold which they have all been training for level 6/7 we bring in a judge for a "move up meet" and they score out of level 4 and 5 in that in house move up meet. By this time they are all ready for 6 or 7 so they can easily score out and everyone is doing well and extremely happy. the girls love having "fun" routines and the coaches love focusing on solid basics and tailoring to each kids strengths/weaknesses. Dropping compulsories has been amazing for our program. You can tell a huge difference at meets though. Our girls are focused on training for JO optionals and you can clearly tell in their poise, presentation, and scores. They do very very well in meets which makes the girls and parents very happy. Some of the other area gyms use xcel for rec and even though they compete usag it is clear some of us are using it for very different reasons. I personally love the flexibility it offers to us as coaches. I have a kid who had i forced her to compete level 4 would have been a hot mess. She has a beautiful bwo and bhs on beam but can't do a good cartwheel on beam to save her life. She has been able to have the experience of winning beam that I know would never have happened in level 4. Every gym needs to determine why they are using it and be able to stand behind that. I don't know how many parents i have had to convince that not every xcel program is equal and we can (and are) using xcel quite successfully to prepare for jo optionals.
 
We use xcel instead of compulsories so I don't have the issue of it being separate. Our little ones come up from our developmental (pre) team at 5 and 6 and compete Bronze focusing on basics and simple clean routines. We focus on teaching good solid technique and basics and introduce good dance and finishes at this level. Then at 6 or 7 they compete Xcel silver which for us is comparative of level 2-4 skills. We make a clean routine and fit in each kids skills as they get them solid. Then they compete a year of xcel gold as they train level 7. All of our Gold gymnasts start with equivalent of level 4 routines and have level 6/7 routines by the time they compete at Xcel gold state. Our xcel silver year really builds on the basics we focused on in bronze and they tend to improve really well when all of our time is not consumed with drilling the compulsory dance. Then after the season of Gold which they have all been training for level 6/7 we bring in a judge for a "move up meet" and they score out of level 4 and 5 in that in house move up meet. By this time they are all ready for 6 or 7 so they can easily score out and everyone is doing well and extremely happy. the girls love having "fun" routines and the coaches love focusing on solid basics and tailoring to each kids strengths/weaknesses. Dropping compulsories has been amazing for our program. You can tell a huge difference at meets though. Our girls are focused on training for JO optionals and you can clearly tell in their poise, presentation, and scores. They do very very well in meets which makes the girls and parents very happy. Some of the other area gyms use xcel for rec and even though they compete usag it is clear some of us are using it for very different reasons. I personally love the flexibility it offers to us as coaches. I have a kid who had i forced her to compete level 4 would have been a hot mess. She has a beautiful bwo and bhs on beam but can't do a good cartwheel on beam to save her life. She has been able to have the experience of winning beam that I know would never have happened in level 4. Every gym needs to determine why they are using it and be able to stand behind that. I don't know how many parents i have had to convince that not every xcel program is equal and we can (and are) using xcel quite successfully to prepare for jo optionals.
We JUST started doing this (Xcel instead of compuslsories) and I was nervous at first, but it is working out great!
 
I kind of feel there should be a way to score out of xcel directly into optionals instead of having to have a score out meet for level 4 and 5.

It seems like a waste of time to me for these girls to have to learn the compulsory floor and beam routines just for a score out meet. Especially when they have been using their own routines for years and will continue to do so.

I wonder if there is another way to do it. Like maybe have a 'score in' meet instead for level 6/7 where they need to make a qualifying score to enter optionals, but are not eligible for awards or placements at that meet.

They need to connect the 2 systems more and enable more places for gymnasts to start, leave and cross over. Make a more cohesive system.
 
I completely agree Jenny! We finish xcel gold state then spend 2-3 weeks teaching the level 4 and 5 routines and bring a judge in for an in-house move up meet in may so they can be ready to compete 7. I wish there was another way! Although 3 weeks seems to keep the novelty of a new routine without them getting bored, and the kids all know they have to score out or they can't move up.
 
Totally separate at the old gym and even more so here at the new one, so much so that JO is at one gym and xcel is at another gym 20 min away.
 

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