Parents Xcel vs JO

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As Xcel is nationalized...USAG must fix this...or JO and Xcel will merge back into one. If USAG does not fix this...JO compulsories will die...Xcel will be high hour...and the kids that need Xcel will be AAU or YMCA or similar. This is a USAG issue...they need to fix it.

I believe they are trying to fix this with the new compulsories and the new lower optional level in the JO program...Level 6.

Getting a 20 hour kid to beat a 5 hour kid is not hard.

Although I agree with you, I do not see it happening, at least in our area. We have currently 2 levels of x-cel in our state and every gym that I know of uses them as part of the JO program. Next year there will be 1 level of xcel(gold) so, I can not see having it be a different track when there is only 1 level. We use AAU for what you are talking about, The meets are cheaper and smaller. Xcel meets cost as much as optionals and the xcel platnuim can be stiff competition.
 
Although I agree with you, I do not see it happening, at least in our area. We have currently 2 levels of x-cel in our state and every gym that I know of uses them as part of the JO program. Next year there will be 1 level of xcel(gold) so, I can not see having it be a different track when there is only 1 level. We use AAU for what you are talking about, The meets are cheaper and smaller. Xcel meets cost as much as optionals and the xcel platnuim can be stiff competition.

Don't worry...USAG will not let your state use AAU for long...too much money involved. Xcel will nationalize...USAG will try to fix the problem and convert the AAU gyms...money talks.
 
Wow didn't realize this was a hotly debated item.

I am so glad that I found this board. You guys have taught me so much.

Do I expect DD to make the Olympics, honestly no. These girls who compete are usually 16, at most 17, and she would be either to young or 19 in an Olympic years. Do I think she had the determination and talent to go far in this sport? Yes. Nothing stops her and she is pretty dang fearless. Her coaches even comment on how determined she is. With no prompting on my part, she asks to watch the videos from her meet and points out what she does wrong and what she needs to fix.

I am trying to find the balance between crazy gym mom and ignorant gym mom.

There is very little optionals at her gym and the other gym at in our area. And small things bug me. As a former dancer, it drives me insane that the coaches don't make the girls point their toes!!!! It's ugly and I know they loose points for it. DD's coach actually said to me the other day that she points her toes so well. Well that's because she and I dance around the house and we always do it with pointed toes.

I've already mentioned to my husband that if DD is really serious about the Olympics or higher level competing then we will need to switch gyms. There is one about 30 minutes away that has fairly good number of optionals seeming to get good scores. And it may mean moving further south towards Seattle eventually.
 
This is annoying...wrong...NOT in the true spirit of Xcel gymnastics.

As Xcel is nationalized...USAG must fix this...or JO and Xcel will merge back into one. If USAG does not fix this...JO compulsories will die...Xcel will be high hour...and the kids that need Xcel will be AAU or YMCA or similar. This is a USAG issue...they need to fix it.

I believe they are trying to fix this with the new compulsories and the new lower optional level in the JO program...Level 6.

Getting a 20 hour kid to beat a 5 hour kid is not hard.

USAG could have easily solved this by eliminating the compulsory routines. They could have adopted a list of requirements (much like what xcel does, but with specific skills, ex. Robhs pass, instead of "floor pass of two elements") and allowed the gyms to put together their own routines. Isn't this how countries set up their lower levels?

Let's face it... No one likes the compulsory routines. They are boring, too restrictive and hold a lot of girls back (or cause them to quit) because of the precision needed in the routines. There are a lot of girls who have the skills but just not the grace needed for the routines (all the arm/hand/foot placements in the dance portions). These are girls who, when they get to optionals and can make their own routines, can out shine former compulsory hotshots...

Instead, USAG didn't really do anything to solve this... They made L6 part of optional levels but they still require 2 compulsory levels (the new 4 and 5, whereas before it was 5,6), so its really no different. Just different numbers.

I get the hours complaint and it is a valid one bit it's not exclusive to xcel. It happens all the time in JO too. A simple search on this board will validate that. And we are usually not talking about such a large discrepancy of 15 hours.
 
I get the hours complaint and it is a valid one bit it's not exclusive to xcel. It happens all the time in JO too. A simple search on this board will validate that. And we are usually not talking about such a large discrepancy of 15 hours.

The JO program is not billed as a low hour program.
 
USAG could have easily solved this by eliminating the compulsory routines. They could have adopted a list of requirements (much like what xcel does, but with specific skills, ex. Robhs pass, instead of "floor pass of two elements") and allowed the gyms to put together their own routines. Isn't this how countries set up their lower levels?

Let's face it... No one likes the compulsory routines. They are boring, too restrictive and hold a lot of girls back (or cause them to quit) because of the precision needed in the routines. There are a lot of girls who have the skills but just not the grace needed for the routines (all the arm/hand/foot placements in the dance portions). These are girls who, when they get to optionals and can make their own routines, can out shine former compulsory hotshots...

Instead, USAG didn't really do anything to solve this... They made L6 part of optional levels but they still require 2 compulsory levels (the new 4 and 5, whereas before it was 5,6), so its really no different. Just different numbers.

I get the hours complaint and it is a valid one bit it's not exclusive to xcel. It happens all the time in JO too. A simple search on this board will validate that. And we are usually not talking about such a large discrepancy of 15 hours.

Agree totally!! I keep telling my daughter that scores in level 5 and 6 are not really an indicator of gymnastics potential. I think it is ridiculous that you can get a deduction for taking too many running steps into the tumbling pass or where your hand or foot is. I understand that that compulsories are intended to provide foundation and prepar the athlete with the basics, but this could be done the way Gymgal describes.
 
And it may mean moving further south towards Seattle eventually.

We live in the Seattle area and I am somewhat familiar with the area gyms. PM me if you have any questions or want some info specific to the area.

Also, although she is only seven and yes ultimately very few have a chance at elite or even high level gymnastics, I would say if she is already determined and self motivated and showing some talent for the sport and you are willing to support her in it then you need to get her in a good program as soon as possible. Just my opinion, but if she has big goals (take the Olympics out of it, just think of it as high level gymnastics period), then a more serious path is needed and soon I would say.

We have a very large XCEL program at our gym and it is exclusively for the purposes that JBS discussed; girls who JO wasn't the right fit for and for girls who want to do other things past compulsory levels and for parents who aren't willing to make the commitment. There are very few cases of movement back to JO once XCEL is pursued.

Again, let me know if I can help you with info gathering or insight on the area.
 
Let's face it... No one likes the compulsory routines. They are boring, too restrictive and hold a lot of girls back (or cause them to quit) because of the precision needed in the routines. There are a lot of girls who have the skills but just not the grace needed for the routines (all the arm/hand/foot placements in the dance portions). These are girls who, when they get to optionals and can make their own routines, can out shine former compulsory hotshots...

I actually see the benefit of the compulsary routines - yeah they are boring and restrictive, but most of the skills and requirements are in there for a reason as they force perfection on basics that are needed in the higher levels even when you don't realize it at first (like that darn back extension roll that my DD struggled on so much early on in L5 floor...I've recently learned that it's the same motion as a free hip to a handstand...so I am really glad that she's perfected it now). Yes, compulsaries can be hard for a lot of girls, but I think going through them (even if one doesn't score particularly well) makes you a better gymnast in the long run.

I also don't think the choreography in the L5/L6 floor routines is difficult at all...do people think that? I/we always thought it was made purposely easy so that 7YOs would be able to do it? My DD has a dance background though, so maybe she/we are biased because of that....she can not wait until optionals to really dance like she is capable of in the dance portions ;).
 
I also don't think the choreography in the L5/L6 floor routines is difficult at all...do people think that? I/we always thought it was made purposely easy so that 7YOs would be able to do it? My DD has a dance background though, so maybe she/we are biased because of that....she can not wait until optionals to really dance like she is capable of in the dance portions ;).

I don't think anyone thinks it's too difficult - it's just the amount of detail that must be exact.
 
The JO program is not billed as a low hour program.

Neither is the Xcel program. It has been interpreted as such by many gyms/coaches/and some regions but if you look at the Xcel site for USAG, you will see nothing that states it is a program that offers less hours. In fact, it clearly states that it is an option for compulsory teams to get experience on optional routines "in their off season". Presumably, these girls are not cutting their hours during their off season and even if they were, the skills they are competing in Xcel were mastered during their "high" hour JO practices.

In addition, keep in mind that the diamond level of Xcel can contain skills found in level 8. I don't know too many gymnasts who could get/maintain these skills on low hours. Even the skills for platinum (which most regions compete) need high number of hours to achieve/maintain safely.

People easily forget, but the Xcel program was born out of the need to have a transitional step into optionals. It was called PREP-OP for that reason. It was for girls who weren't quite ready for L8 but didn't need to compete L6 a second year. From there, individual states saw an opportunity to grow it into a larger program, choosing to use it how their gyms felt best. It wasn't until a couple years ago that USAG decided that they "needed" to regulate it nationally.
 
I can only echo others who have said if your current gym doesn't have any optionals, and your daughter wants the Olympics as a goal, the two are mutually exclusive and you will need to find a new gym (or as she's only 7, you could try to have her find a new sport)
 
Gymgal- check out the link jbs posted on the first page. Maybe your state is one of the exceptions, but most use it as described.
"Whose it for... Those limited by time or financial commitment"
"Benefits..A way to promote athlete longevity through less training hours"
 
I actually see the benefit of the compulsary routines - yeah they are boring and restrictive, but most of the skills and requirements are in there for a reason as they force perfection on basics that are needed in the higher levels even when you don't realize it at first (like that darn back extension roll that my DD struggled on so much early on in L5 floor...I've recently learned that it's the same motion as a free hip to a handstand...so I am really glad that she's perfected it now). Yes, compulsaries can be hard for a lot of girls, but I think going through them (even if one doesn't score particularly well) makes you a better gymnast in the long run.

I also don't think the choreography in the L5/L6 floor routines is difficult at all...do people think that? I/we always thought it was made purposely easy so that 7YOs would be able to do it? My DD has a dance background though, so maybe she/we are biased because of that....she can not wait until optionals to really dance like she is capable of in the dance portions ;).

Lol I didn't literally mean "no one". There are a lot of people who see the benefit of the compulsory levels, which is why it is used so heavily in the US. My point was that the compulsory routines do not help the gymnast master the skills. Practicing the skills help the gymnast master them. the rules could easily list all the requirements in each level and then let the coaches choreograph the routine within those parameters... including a back extension roll (hs?). Btw, my dd did not practice her back extensions ad nauseam and she had no problem learning her clearhip hs. There are many ways to learn new skills.

I don't mean together choreography is hard, per se. It is the couple details that trip girls up in the routines - the number of steps, the direction of the jumps, hand/feet placements. All little things that get deductions if not done perfectly, particularly in L6. Once a gymnast gets to L8, the judges have no clue what the routine is supposed to look like, so the focus is on the skills and the form, not the little things like did she turn the wrong way in the sequence or did she end the routine in the correct pose?

Sent from my AT100 using ChalkBucket mobile app
 
Gymgal- check out the link jbs posted on the first page. Maybe your state is one of the exceptions, but most use it as described.
"Whose it for... Those limited by time or financial commitment"
"Benefits..A way to promote athlete longevity through less training hours"

As I said, I realize that many states and regions have adopted this stance but this is not coming from USAG, which is what JBS implied.
 

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