form - natural or learned?

[GymBee97]

I think having some natural ability in some area and being a coachable kid is what usually will get the attention of the coaches in the first place but that ability alone won't make you successful. The daily coaching does that. Some kids just like in school "get It" without much effort and some kids just like in school "need to focus more to get it".

What I have seen with those kids that are "a natural" and the skills come quickly etc do very well at the compulsory levels but when they hit L6 or L7 all of a sudden those new skills have become all of a sudden hard to get and they now have to work hard to get them. They get disapointed at meets when they aren't hitting the podium meet after meet coming home with all the trophies and medals and end up quitting. The gymnasts that I have seen that have had to work hard for their skills and weren't on the podiums all the way through are still working hard so what they had to do to get the skills is the same but now they are placing at meets and they tend to continue on. The ones that things seemed to come easy for now have that shock of things not coming so easy and having to learn to really work hard, learn that they may not get that skill in the first week, and learn to go to a meet try their hardest and still not get that ribbon. Its a hard wake up call for many kids to learn to handle that new frustration.

That doesn't mean the talented all quit but when it goes from that compulsory year to the Optional year that is where I see the most kids drop and having "natural talent" being the super gym queen etc won't keep you on top in the Optional years.

There are always other reason that kids leave of course, financial status of family, new interests at school or at home, wants more free time.

 

[All Chalked Up]

My first year of gymnastics I didn't even understand form. I could be tight as a board through my core but still have flexed feet, unpointed toes, bent legs, etc. Started understanding it after I stuck everything at a mock meet, and got last even though the other girls fell. That was like getting a 4x4 across the forehead.

Now, I'm like a form freak! If my coach tells us to stick 5 skills on each beam, my aren't just stuck, they are PERFECT (at least pretty darn close) or else I don't count them. My worst pet peeve is when I see someone to something really, really hard but it has terrible form! I'd rather see easier, perfect skills then chucked, disgusting difficult skills. That being said, I usually have to chuck skills at first but I can clean them up very very quickly.

 

[cbone]

I haven't read every reply, so I may repeat what others said. If I do, forgive me. I don't know that "form" is natural, but some kids have natural athleticism and others just don't. My little one is 6 and has SUPERB body control. Better than my 8 and 11 year old. I watch some 8 and 9 year olds in our gym's rec program and they have the coordination of a drunk, club-footed orangutan. Form can be learned and completely overcome a lack of athleticism, though. I often watch kids who are not naturally athletic do routines beautifully.

 

[GymnastJoy]

I haven't read every reply, so I may repeat what others said. If I do, forgive me. I don't know that "form" is natural, but some kids have natural athleticism and others just don't. My little one is 6 and has SUPERB body control. Better than my 8 and 11 year old. I watch some 8 and 9 year olds in our gym's rec program and they have the coordination of a drunk, club-footed orangutan. Form can be learned and completely overcome a lack of athleticism, though. I often watch kids who are not naturally athletic do routines beautifully.

I know the right thing to do is to continue ignoring these posts, and I apologize in advance for hijacking, but honestly, this is so unnecessary. We all know from your countless posts that your dd is 6 and a state champion. That is a great accomplishment and you are obviously very proud of her. But demeaning other children is classless, IMHO. So what if these 8 and 9 years olds are not up to your standard? Maybe they could care less about form and are in the gym for fun? Maybe their fathers do not define them by their gymnastics accomplishments or athletism? Being a "champion" is meaningless if you are not a gracious winner. Believe me, there are many parents and coaches on these boards of state champions, including me. In all the time I have been on CB I have not come across such demeaning posts. This one put me over the edge and I just had to respond.

 

[cbone]

First of all, it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up. Truth be told, at age 9, I was like a one-legged drunken rhino. It's not demeaning, it's creative word use. Some people aren't naturally coordinated. I even attempted to point out that two of my older kids never had phenomenal coordination. I'm not insinuating that my daughter has had great success because of my superior genetics. Some people have "it" and some people don't. That's my response to OP in a nutshell. That and that training and persistence can overcome not having athleticism.

In my "countless posts" (a third the amount you have) I have acknowledged that I see how different people enjoy the sport differently. I don't have standards that other people's children have to meet in my mind. In fact, my daughter set her own standard to compete and try to become a champion. She met that goal and I am incredibly proud of her. I won't apologize for that. I think it's great that you have a state champion, too. And every else that has one. And I respect every child that goes out and does their best and falls short of the podium. In many ways I respect them more than those to whom it comes easily.

You don't like my posts. Great. I use the language I use to be creative and humorous, not disrespectful. Read my posts and you'll see how I've taught my daughter to compete and treat others. I'll never be the quiet demure type that posts in the safe little catch phrases that always get "likes". I'm not that person. But I'm not the person you've formed in you mind, either.

Next time you want to have a discussion, PM me. We won't have to hijack a thread that way. Unless your goal was just to publicly dress me down. In that case, mission accomplished.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well then...form is both natural and learned.

 

[cbone]

No "yikes" for me, dunno?

 

[gymnut1]

First of all, it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

It didn't come across as humerous. Sorry. It came across as conceited about your dd and distainful of those other children. I can see from your reply above that that was not your intention. But unfortunately it did come across like that. And I also thought your reply was aggressive.

It is difficult to know how 'humour' will come across on a written board like this with such a huge and varied world wide membership. Sometimes it just doesn't work the way it does is our heads. My advice is leave the YIKES to Dunno for the time being

 

[bogwoppit]

First of all, it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up. Truth be told, at age 9, I was like a one-legged drunken rhino. It's not demeaning, it's creative word use. Some people aren't naturally coordinated. I even attempted to point out that two of my older kids never had phenomenal coordination. I'm not insinuating that my daughter has had great success because of my superior genetics. Some people have "it" and some people don't. That's my response to OP in a nutshell. That and that training and persistence can overcome not having athleticism.

In my "countless posts" (a third the amount you have) I have acknowledged that I see how different people enjoy the sport differently. I don't have standards that other people's children have to meet in my mind. In fact, my daughter set her own standard to compete and try to become a champion. She met that goal and I am incredibly proud of her. I won't apologize for that. I think it's great that you have a state champion, too. And every else that has one. And I respect every child that goes out and does their best and falls short of the podium. In many ways I respect them more than those to whom it comes easily.

You don't like my posts. Great. I use the language I use to be creative and humorous, not disrespectful. Read my posts and you'll see how I've taught my daughter to compete and treat others. I'll never be the quiet demure type that posts in the safe little catch phrases that always get "likes". I'm not that person. But I'm not the person you've formed in you mind, either.

Next time you want to have a discussion, PM me. We won't have to hijack a thread that way. Unless your goal was just to publicly dress me down. In that case, mission accomplished.

Mod hat on.

It may be your style but I think most folk here would find it offensive that you would call some children "drunk, club-footed orangutans". All our kids, those we live with and those we coach, are in the gym because they love gym. Please try to be respectful of the community and the fact that many of those children read these posts.

You are not the first guy to come here and "tell it like it is", most don't stick around. But those that do have learned that there is humour that is okay and there is "humour" that is not.

You will find many posts that are a bit harsh, but you will not find posts where kids are insulted.

As to your DD, I am sure you are very proud and that she is very talented. But many, many of us have been in your shoes. We have a brag thread, and even private forum, for sharing those brags.

Carry on folks. Get the thread back on track. If you have issues with a member, you know how to find me.

Mod hat off.

P.S. I am with Dunno; form is natural and learned. Like manners!

 

[Faith]

I haven't read every reply, so I may repeat what others said. If I do, forgive me. I don't know that "form" is natural, but some kids have natural athleticism and others just don't. My little one is 6 and has SUPERB body control. .

I think "athleticism" is quite a different thing though? Form is a different issue in my mind, the ability to look elegant and polished, pointed toes, extended legs. it's necessary in dance, gymnastics, ice skating and the like, but not in basketball, track, swim etc, but I'd still call those kids natural athletes.

My child is a natural athlete. She's very good at sport in general. She has many of the attributes you'd want in a gymnast, but the form issues makes the others look much more talented. But as someone pointed out up thread, it takes alot to make a whole gymnast. In fact, out of the group I mentioned, the girl with great form has tried to quit once already as she hates conditioning, one has fear issues, the strong kid is just not improving her flexibility.

I coached one of those drunk orang utan 12 year olds. Within a year she'd turned herself into a gymnast you'd have sworn was a natural talent.

I don't think you can always pick the most able child.

 

[monkeysmom]

I happened to see part of a Special Olympics practice at my daughter's gym. One of the boys got a huge smile when he did a cartwheel, now that was BEAUTIFUL!! A small handful of gymnasts will come home with national championships this year. The other thousands all fall in between somewhere in terms of "talent."

I think it is impossible to tell by watching a one hour recreational class who actually has the potential to be a successful gymnast. It's one of the things I love about the Excel program.

A bunch of second, third and fourth graders who weren't handpicked because of their five year old body type or because they were friends with the developmental team teachers (or whose parents brought them into gymnastics as preschoolers) get the chance to get some more hours in the gym and some good coaching. Guess what? At least in my area, a bunch of them are getting to move over to regular team as level 4 or even 5's. Guess the crystal balls of the "pickers" analyzing the 4-6 year olds are a little cloudy after all! Of course the whole early handpicking of the developmental teams is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy, of course most of them make it onto Level 4 because they were the only ones with any coaching or conditioning going into tryouts. And in our gym, they even wear their "developmental team" leotards to Level 4 tryouts to make a point of it to the other girls trying out.

Anyway, calling other people's kids animal names or drunk isn't funny. But then, I've never found mean humor at the expense of other peoples feelings to be particularly entertaining. A good rule is that if hearing what you said would hurt them, it's not really very funny. Plus every single one of us and our kids either have either gone through ackward stages or will have them in our future as we age, so being grateful and gracious is good practice. What goes around comes around. Usually. Eventually.

 

[cbone]

I think "athleticism" is quite a different thing though? Form is a different issue in my mind, the ability to look elegant and polished, pointed toes, extended legs. it's necessary in dance, gymnastics, ice skating and the like, but not in basketball, track, swim etc, but I'd still call those kids natural athletes.

I agree that they are completely different. Form is learned, IMO. I guess what I was trying to say (and failed to properly communicate) is that those with natural athleticism typically have an easier time initially with form because they are better able to control their bodies. Muscle memory, however, is not based on athleticism and that's why I believe that training can overcome natural athletic ability.

 

[iwannacoach]

Doesn't USAG have an education program and certification for the whole "YIKES" thing.


Jeez... I forgot the quote!!!

 

[iwannacoach]

First of all, it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

It didn't come across as humerous. Sorry. It came across as conceited about your dd and distainful of those other children. I can see from your reply above that that was not your intention. But unfortunately it did come across like that. And I also thought your reply was aggressive.

It is difficult to know how 'humour' will come across on a written board like this with such a huge and varied world wide membership. Sometimes it just doesn't work the way it does is our heads. My advice is leave the YIKES to Dunno for the time being

Doesn't USAG have an education and certification program for that "YIKES" thing.

 

[All Chalked Up]

I was one of those drunk oraguatan kids last year. I came dead last in every competition and didn't qualify for Provincials. This year not only did I qualify for Provincials, but I improved my old AA score by more then ten points and qualified for Atlantics.

And just saying, I would never call my teamates or the kids I coach a drunk orangutan because of bad form...

It's incredible how much hard work, a supportive coach and year can make.

 

[Gymmonkeymomma]

It's incredible how much hard work, a supportive coach and year can make.

Yup! My DD is living proof of this!

Congrats to you, All Chalked Up, on your improvements!