MAG When to make the adult decision.

[momto2js]

My son is at the best facility in the area. There are about 35 boys on the boys team with 4 level 10's 4 level 9's likely 6-8 level 8's. So I know the coach can get them there. However, my son is 8 and is training in a group of 25 kids level 5-10. Often there are 2 coaches but sometimes there is just one. One day last week his group (of level 5's and 6's) was on rings for about for about 45 minutes with no coaching. The coach we working just with the new 5's on a few basic skills but the rest of the group was completely unsupervised.

He is a good kid, but asking an 8 year old to stay focused and work one anything for that long is just not realistic. He is also as good as he is going to get without some coaching to learn the skills he needs for level 6. At this point, I don't see that happening.

There are other gyms in the area. They are smaller and don't have the higher level kids. But at this point might be a better fit. MY kid needs a coach that is teaching most of the time and a group that is small enough they spend more time working than waiting for a turn. I know it is time to try somewhere else, but he doesn't want to leave his friends or the gym we helped build (in a very physical sense). I am worried that he will not be happy when he does not get to move up, not because he isn't working hard but because, he isn't be taught what he needs to do. I'm not sure when exactly you as the parent say, we are trying a different gym and if you are going to do gym, you are going to have to try it out. When is enough enough?

 

[Sasha]

That sure seems like a difficult ratio of kids to coaches to sustain. How have the coaches been able to get the older ones to levels 8-10? Were there fewer kids back then when those boys were lower level, and now they are going through a period of being understaffed? Or have they had this ratio for a very long time but still seeing success (somehow? Lots of privates??)? Are the 8-10's highly competitive now or are they struggling, too?

I'm just wondering how their success has been built - if this high ratio is recent, or it's the model the gym has been using for many seasons. If it's recent (surge in team membership), perhaps it is temporary and they are working on adding coaches? If it's not new, how is their attrition between compulsories and optionals?

I guess I'd want to know if the gym realizes this isn't optimal and is trying to fix it, or if they are happy with this model. And if they are happy with this model, and successful, then could it be successful for my son or not.

Hmm..

 

[momto2js]

The optional are generally in the mid 1/3 at regionals. So not great but not bad. The program seems to go through spurts, it is a manageable size than is successful and grows. To many kids not enough coaches, attrition happens and it is a smaller program again. HC is the owner and we have had a revolving door for coaches. This will be our 4th year and DS had had 11 coaches. The building is spectacular though. Nice and bright, pits, plenty of space.

 

[lilmisssunshine]

Ha! Are you at our gym? We're very new, but I've been surprised by how unstructured the boys' practices are when compared with the girls (where there's like 30 girls in rows all doing standing back tucks at the same time). And there's just more girls than boys, so I guess that's why they are able to have a "level 4" class for girls but "level ?-?" for the boys. (My son is only on pre-team, so I don't know how regular team practices work.) Right now, I'm trying to trust their process, since they do have kids at the upper levels and I really really love the coaches. But I can definitely understand how frustrating that must be for you and your son. Everyone pays the same price. They should get the same attention.

 

[2gymmies]

Can you talk to the coaches about your concerns or have you already done that? Maybe they are aware and this is just a short term thing... in the end, you gotta trust and believe in the coaches and the program or it will never work...

 

[momto2js]

I can talk to her again. And then again. The kids do really well for as little coaching that they get. However, the unrealistic expectations are wearing on my son.

 

[skschlag]

And that is the key; how your son does with it. This system may work for some kids, but it might not be best for yours. If he needs more hands on coaching than he is getting, then I think you have answered your question. It will be hard for him.....leaving, but if he really wants to do gymnastics, and be successful, he may have to. Especially if he needs that direct instruction that is not happening right now.

 

[curlymop]

We had a similar situation last summer due to a temporary lack of an assistant coach. It was total chaos, and more often than not, my son spent the whole practice goofing off and skipping turns, with nobody available or willing to tell him to cut it out. Several times, I walked in to see the boys practicing by themselves. Or rather, some of the boys would be practicing on their own. Mine would be covering his entire face in chalk or jumping off a nearby block. I do think it impacted the younger boys more than the older boys.

Head coach owns the gym, and I did meet with him at some point to discuss the situation. By that point, he had hired an assistant coach, but it hadn't seemed to alleviate the problem. I told him I wasn't too thrilled about paying team prices for what was essentially open gym. We didn't fully resolve it that day, but eventually they were able to manage the groups a little better. This summer it is 1000x better, and DS is suddenly making a lot of progress. I will say that if there were any viable options for another gym, we would have seriously considered moving gyms last summer, but it was either this gym or no gym. We stuck it out, and now things are better, but I'm still a little bitter about the time (and money) wasted last year.

If I were you I would communicate my frustrations to the coaches and owners, and if I didn't feel there was a chance of any change, I would look for a new gym.

 

[munchkin3]

Young Boys need ALOT of structure and hands on coaching.

 

[gracyomalley]

Talk to the coach again. Sometimes they are in the process of making changes and you just have to be patient. That being said from your post you've done that a few times...

Is there any option for parents requesting scheduling changes, etc to allow the youngers to have more attention? My youngest just turned 11 (so not so young anymore) and 2 years ago I started having him come with his brother to a day when he's the only Level6/7 there - for family convenience. Amazingly enough, on that day he does twice as much work, focuses great and has nice form whereas on the days he's with his group he's all over the place "hanging with his buddies"....he's always been this way - too social for his own good - has successfully played in the youth orchestra with highschoolers and 3 hour practices for 3 years now, but get him around a group of similar aged like minded boys and its all fort building and jumping off blocks, etc.

Experienced boys coaches understand this and tailor practices to herd the cats....it is especially helpful to have adult male coaches with the younger boys for this reason - they really need structure to succeed. The older boys of course benefit from lower coach to athlete ratio as well, but they are better able to focus on their own -

It's kind of exactly the opposite of how girls gym works, were the youngers work hard and all plan on the Olympics, and the tween/teens are moody, emotional, playing on phones and spending an hour chalking up...

I would look a little into the smaller programs, just so you really know what you are choosing between as well...

 

[profmom]

It's kind of exactly the opposite of how girls gym works, were the youngers work hard and all plan on the Olympics, and the tween/teens are moody, emotional, playing on phones and spending an hour chalking up...

I laughed so hard at this!

One coach can't coach 25 kids. I'd be skeptical about two coaches coaching 25 kids unless we're talking about post-puberty boys who are used to working out independently. Even then, you'd need two very experienced coaches, each with a good set of eyes in the back of his/her head. I think the noise alone from a pack of 8-10 year old boys that size would be enough to disincentivize this practice scenario. However, it's tough with boys' programs because there just are not so many options, so more often than on the girls' side, you have to ask yourself hard questions about what your bottom line is, what can be changed, and what has to be tolerated.

Here are some questions to consider. I'm a little confused based on your description how the gym is managing workouts -- do the optionals have a separate workout group/time but some of them are working out at the same time as your son? What's going on with the usual schedule?

Is this chaos/poor ratio of gymnasts to coaching staff something new for the program or is it the way it's always worked? If it's new, does it seem to be the result of a temporary unsatisfactory situation due to a coaching shortage, or is it the "new normal"?

How many of your upper level guys are home grown and how many are transfers from other gyms? Some boys' gyms are very successful by letting other gyms get them through compulsories and then collecting up all the refugees who've outgrown their programs.

Is he competing as an eight year old next year, and if so, do you get the sense that the gym is thinking more along the lines of having him do L5 again? What's the breakdown/skill range of the guys in his group? And do the coaches seem to be prioritizing one set of boys (i.e., the guys moving up to L5, the guys who are on the cusp of 5 or 6, or the guys who look like sure bets to go to 6) over another systematically?

Agreed about seeing if there might be a way for him to work out in a group that's more suited to his advancement. That strategy is working well for one athlete on DS's team who is in a group that isn't always ideal for him -- once a week he works out with the optionals, and while he isn't at that skill level, the dynamics of the workout work better for him.

 

[ZJsMom]

For safety's sake the younger guys shouldn't have more than around 12/1 ratio. I think I would discuss with the coaches why it's like this and whether they have plans to bring on additional coaching staff. At the optional levels, kids have the maturity (at least theoretically) to be given an assignment and sent off to work on it. For compulsories, I think they should be under direct coach supervision at all times.

 

[momto2js]

The large ratio issues have been a problem as the program has grown. It seem that HC is hard to work for. She just lost ALL of her girls team coaches so she is currently trying to coach both teams. Right now the training group is level 5-10 there are about 7 5-6's and the reset are optionals. Most of the optionals are indeed homegrown. Several came to the gym from somewhere after their first year. One is a military family so just passing through. All of them practice from 830-1230 M-Th for the summer. The older optional kids can pretty much come and work independently anytime they want.

It really isn't all that loud or chaotic from a far, there is though a lot of chatting and standing around. There is a newer kid that jumps around like a never ending ball of energy and he is a HUGE distraction. We had a coach quit mid year last season and the huge numbers have been pretty much situation normal since then. Then the girls staff quit and well things have not improved. I'm not sure as a business person, this coach has the ability to manage human resources all that well so I believe it will be an ongoing issue. And we live in the armpit of Men's Gymnasts so coaching is tough to find.

My son competed 5 last year, he was in top 3 on floor and pommel at every meet. He competed all of the bonuses on both those events. His training group almost never touched the rings so he wasn't overly successful on that event (but neither were his teammates) Pbars are a challenge, and he was in the top 1/3 on vault and high bar. Currently, he has just added a shoulder stand on the rings, RO,BHS, BHS, BT on the floor. The FHS, FHS pass is coming. On the mushroom he is working on a Russian and has decent flairs and a good spindle. His new high bar skills this summer is a consistant layout flyaway and a good strait arm kip.

The other training group from age 6-9 level 4's many at least on their second or third time through level 4 and they are a HOT mess. My kid would quit before rejoining that group. He is better suited to be the youngest and not the strongest gymnast than to be the best and most mature in the group. Leadership is not my kids strength.

At the end of the year he was told that if he got the skills he could compete level 6 this year. But there has been little or no coaching support to get those skills and he is going to be disappointed. Today I watched for a little while and I totally watched him hang a the back of the line and give up on things I know he can do. He needs a coach that will say, "I know that press handstand on the p-bars is scary, but I know you can do it" and right now that is hard to come by. The voice in his head has changed from "I'm pretty good at this and I can hold my own here" to " no matter what I do it won't be good enough" and for me that is a scary change.

I think I'll draft an email. She goes from our group to the next to the next one. I know there is no time to talk. Maybe I can put my concerns in writing and get the message across a little better.

 

[profmom]

I think that's a very good approach. Ugh, I really wish there were more men's coaches around. It's so hard!

 

[sce]

At the end of the year he was told that if he got the skills he could compete level 6 this year. But there has been little or no coaching support to get those skills and he is going to be disappointed. Today I watched for a little while and I totally watched him hang a the back of the line and give up on things I know he can do. He needs a coach that will say, "I know that press handstand on the p-bars is scary, but I know you can do it" and right now that is hard to come by. The voice in his head has changed from "I'm pretty good at this and I can hold my own here" to " no matter what I do it won't be good enough" and for me that is a scary change.

I think I'll draft an email. She goes from our group to the next to the next one. I know there is no time to talk. Maybe I can put my concerns in writing and get the message across a little better.

It sounds like, on some events, he is making progress towards 6. Some of the skills you listed are level 6 bonuses. Overall though, the situation sounds bad. The fact that she can't retain staff and is trying to do it all is not good. That coupled with them not really working certain events is not going to lead to good places. It does not sound like she really ash a plan for each athlete, or a sustainable coaching plan at all. The most motivated kids may still do well, but this situation will drain most everyone else and your ds is showing signs of that mental drain.