Parents Advice: considering leaving JO program for Xcel

[LJL07]

" I don't want her potential lost on a bad decision in her training, since time and financials are not an issue!"

If so, then maybe the best way would be to take her somewhere where she can train for L4 without competing? I saw 6years olds without pullover, then a few months later they had a decent L3 bars, and one year later training L4 bars. She can't do L4 till she is 7 anyway, but with good coaching, she will be ready in one year, I am sure.

^^ that would be awesome, and this is what we would like for my DD, but I can't find a gym willing to do this unless you do homeschool program. No thanks. Maybe has something to do with money end of things/business decision. Sorry for brief hijack!

OP, I am not an expert, but I *think* the reason for the extremely slow progression in JO is because they are so particular about form. So to us as parents, it may look ridiculous that they are spending time ad nauseum on cartwheels. My dd, for example, has some nuanced things they were fixing with the robhs, like her hurdle into round off and not squatting into the Bhs. Of course to me, dd looked fabulous and was more than adequate for a higher level of cheerleading or xcel team, but they want it absolutely perfect for Jo. I was told this is so she doesn't have to repeat levels as she progresses and she might even have the opportunity to skip a compulsory level in the future if the form gets nailed down correctly. Believe me, I know how frustrating it is! Even now I keep thinking, "she could do so much more" and "why do we have to spend a whole year doing level 2 routines??" But, these coaches know much more than I do about gymnastics, and they appear to know what they are doing.

 

[MILgymFAM]

If you and she are this serious already I would personally think JO is the only place she would be happy. The hours in xcel do not lend themselves to big gains in strength, and eventually will slow down progress on all events, when compared to a high hour JO program. I didn't even realize how serious levels 1/2 were. I know people around here seem to start competing at level 4. The most important part of your decision is knowing your locality- is there mobility between tracks or are you making a switch that may become inadvertently permanent. Best of luck!

 

[IreneKa]

I would be very careful with this decision. Talk to the coaches, and make sure that:
1. There is indeed a possibility to switch back to JO after a year or two of Xcel
2. The Xcel hours are approximately the same as JO
3. Xcel conditioning and attention to form is about the same as JO
4. The skills and drills they are working on in Xcel are leading toward the skills required in the higher levels of JO

My DD started in Xcel bronze. Her hours were about the same as JO L1/2, and I thought her form and skills level were decent. When we switch to another gym's JO program and joined the group of girls who competed old 3 (new 2) that season, DD had more "fun" floor skills than most of them(BWO, FWO, FHS, etc.), but she was way behind on bars. They already had mill circle, and were drilling shoot through, FHC, etc. all year. In Xcel bronze DD's bars routine was pullover, BHC, dismount. After that they were starting to work on squat-on and jump to hight bar for Xcel silver, no FHC, no kip drills. It took DD a few months to catch up, and she even had to start the season as L2, and was moved to L3 later. Wasn't fun.

 

[MeetDirector]

I would also recommend being very, very careful with this decision. And if your club says "sure no problem coming back to JO later" get it in writing.

There is a reason that JO focuses so much on form, shape, and strength; the athletes are being given a foundation that sets them up for success in the higher optional levels and eventually college. I, personally, don't think you will get that in Xcel.

Your dd is 6 so it is hard to get real goals from her, but if she lives and breathes gym now, I don't see how Xcel is going to meet that need. Learning new skills is fine, but if they are learned wrong it won't do any good down the road if and when she tries to go back to JO (if she isn't too old by then for the club's JO team).

The real problem may be the structure of the JO program at your club. It might be a good thing to look at other clubs in your area; they might not compete level 2 (not all clubs do).

Good Luck.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I know it varies regionally, but here, Xcel would in no way be even comparable to JO training. Not even close. And there would be zero chance of moving back to JO. Since your gym seems to state that would be possible, obviously you live in a different region. we also don't compete L1-2, ever. It's just not done here, most gyms start competing at new L3, sometimes even 4.
I totally agree that the statistics mean absolutely nothing, and neither does her placement. It's wonderful for her self esteem, but other than that means nothing at these levels.
If she is serious about gymnastics, and you as parents are supporting that, then I would strongly suggest staying with JO no matter how "boring" she finds it. The coaches, presuming you have an "extraordinarily talented" kid as you put it, would want to hone her form and build her strength to give her the absolute best chances to succeed in gymnastics and stay with the sport for the long haul. The speed or method of the training may not make sense to a parent, so if you are at a good gym with good coaches, you are going to have to trust that they have her best interest at heart. A good gymnast makes the gym look good. Speeding along and having kids do skills they aren't quite ready for helps nobody.
Again, regional differences.... But here, no coach would EVER suggest a talented kid go the Xcel route. I think Xcel is a wonderful program for the right athlete, but here the route for a talented young gymnast would be training with the appropriate JO group and do extra TOPs training on the side. Xcel is only used for older gymnasts who can't/won't do the skills and hours required for JO. It leads to nothing other than having fun with their chosen sport (which is GREAT!), no college opportunities, nothing. Not that it should be the goal for you at this point, but it's something to consider.... Best of luck!

 

[MeetDirector]

^^^^ I couldn't agree with @SurpriseGymMom more - well said and spot on!!

 

[Ali'sMom]

I was thinking that the other option would be if her gym was willing to have her score out of each level and just keep moving up. But if they are the ones suggesting Xcel, then I don't guess they're wanting to do that. My gym has a girl that went from old L2 (new L1) to finishing her L8 season in 3 years.

Good luck!

I just happened to chat with the mom of this little girl and found out that she did 4-7 in one year, did a full year of 8, and is now training 9 (train in fall, compete in spring) and is also uptraining elite with one of our L10s.
She is 9.
I believe before she was old enough for future levels, she did private lessons to uptrain the skills and routines so she was ready as soon as she was old enough. She did one meet of 5 and one meet of 6 in Fall, and was ready for competing 7 in January. (mom says her scores weren't so great, she didn't have quite enough time to be ready. Her level 8 scores were much better because she was able to fully train for 8.
And now that I see what everyone is saying about Xcel (which I self-admittedly don't know much about), this might be what you need move towards.

 

[lovemygymnast]

I know it varies regionally, but here, Xcel would in no way be even comparable to JO training. Not even close. And there would be zero chance of moving back to JO. Since your gym seems to state that would be possible, obviously you live in a different region. we also don't compete L1-2, ever. It's just not done here, most gyms start competing at new L3, sometimes even 4.
I totally agree that the statistics mean absolutely nothing, and neither does her placement. It's wonderful for her self esteem, but other than that means nothing at these levels.
If she is serious about gymnastics, and you as parents are supporting that, then I would strongly suggest staying with JO no matter how "boring" she finds it. The coaches, presuming you have an "extraordinarily talented" kid as you put it, would want to hone her form and build her strength to give her the absolute best chances to succeed in gymnastics and stay with the sport for the long haul. The speed or method of the training may not make sense to a parent, so if you are at a good gym with good coaches, you are going to have to trust that they have her best interest at heart. A good gymnast makes the gym look good. Speeding along and having kids do skills they aren't quite ready for helps nobody.
Again, regional differences.... But here, no coach would EVER suggest a talented kid go the Xcel route. I think Xcel is a wonderful program for the right athlete, but here the route for a talented young gymnast would be training with the appropriate JO group and do extra TOPs training on the side. Xcel is only used for older gymnasts who can't/won't do the skills and hours required for JO. It leads to nothing other than having fun with their chosen sport (which is GREAT!), no college opportunities, nothing. Not that it should be the goal for you at this point, but it's something to consider.... Best of luck!

 

[lovemygymnast]

^^^
Agree! (Not sure what I did! Lol) at our gym and in our area, xcel is for kids who are great on skills but have form issues. We were told that when we asked about it because my DD liked the idea of having a different routine And her own music. Although, we have friends who just moved some where else in our state and at their gym, they love xcel and say it's more of a college track than JO. I don't know but that's what was said and their coach has had several kids get college scholarships. It's not that way at our gym but if form & strength improve, they will move gymnasts back to JO. I believe the hours are about the same though. Also they allow JO to go to xcel (we had several girls repeating 4 and they chose to do gold instead).

I have a 6 1/2 year old DD in JO L4 and just like yours, loves up training, gets bored but she knows the only way to get to the next level and above is to perfect where she is now. It's a long slow road to where they're going, so I'd rather her know she has to work hard to get there and be patient.

 

[MAcastsalot]

We have the opposite problem. Tons of strength, but working on flexibility. DD (just turned 6, L2) can do all L3 bar skills, and even has a muscled up Kip that she figured out on her own (not great form, but still strong). Bars, beam, and vault are all good, but that darn bridge kickover (that took her forever to get) looks horrible because of flexibility. She has her moments of getting frustrated with being stuck doing "boring" stuff on bars, but she's willing to stick it out and has been stretching a ton at home. So I don't have any advice, but I know what it's like. Good luck with finding something that works for her!

 

[LJL07]

^^^^ I couldn't agree with @SurpriseGymMom more - well said and spot on!!

Absolutely. Only difference is that in our area JO levels 1&2 are competed seriously around here. And levels 1&2 are not 4&5 yr olds. More like 6,7, and 8 yr olds. In a different area, it sounds like a decent robhs, front hip circle, etc would compete level 3. Here they can have those skills but they expect the kids to have excellent form that will place them well into the 9's scoring wise, so they compete them where they will place highest. Surely this will all pay off eventually!

 

[kandkfunk]

The biggest issue with us giving advice to the OP is that there are so many regional differences, like others have said. No competing level 1-2 around here (it actually sounds like the state is pushing toward earlier competing but few gyms are joining in) and Xcel is strictly recreational or for former JO gymnasts that want less. I can't imagine a coach suggesting Xcel for a really talented young girl, but maybe that is common where the OP is from? I do remember some people have commented that Xcel is very competitive in their region and most girls go through Xcel at some point.

I have also been thinking about this from another perspective. Much of what is done in gymnastics can be very boring. It's boring for 6 year olds, 10 years old and 14 year olds. There is so much repetition and mastery of basics required that it can become very tedious. As you move up in skills and levels, there is still a lot of focus on basics and the big skills are broken down into many different drills focused on different aspects of the skill. Girls can drill a skill for months before ever attempting it. Some of the most talented kids just cannot handle the slow pace that is required in gymnastics.

Also, the JO routines are designed to be built on as you move up levels and they are much of the foundation for higher level gymnastics. Some of the skills that are part of the JO routines don't seem like a big deal, but they are there to prepare girls for the bigger, harder skills down the road. If the development of these skills are skipped, then higher level gymnastics may be more difficult. For example, the back extension roll, ultimately to handstand at upper compulsory levels, is a very crucial skill that helps gymnasts understand body positions and shapes for every other event. With that in mind, I would be a little concerned about missing some of the important development that occurs through the JO program, especially if your DD has aspirations of reaching high level gymnastics in the future.

 

[beachgirl]

I'm not sure what the xcel program looks like at your gym, but at our gym it is set up completely different than JO. Besides having fewer hours, the emphasis on xcel at our gym seems to be on getting as many skills as possible and not perfecting the ones you have. The xcel team seems to be lacking a lot in form and I think this would make it difficult to move back and forth between JO and xcel. We are in a very competitive region and have several xcel regional and state champs at our gym. They were all girls that started in JO and moved over to xcel because they lacked skills in one event or another. Only being L2 and 6 years old, it seems that it would be beneficial to stick it out with JO at this point.

 

[raenndrops]

^^^^ I couldn't agree with @SurpriseGymMom more - well said and spot on!!

And, based on what OP said in the beginning, I couldn't disagree more. Her daughter is bored. Bars is keeping her from being able to move up a level and training harder skills on her stronger events.
She is in an area where L1 and L2 are competed. These levels aren't necessary (and neither is L3). The mill circle is irrelevant after L3 (for @IreneKa).
The child is bored to the point of potentially wanting to quit.
This little girl could compete Xcel until she is ready to score out of L4/L5. Her father can help her with strength training (he could talk to the coaches to see what they suggest and just put the program in place at home). I don't know why a gym wouldn't work on proper form with their Xcel athletes since that is where the deductions come from in the Xcel divisions.

OP should talk to the gym a little more... ask all the previously mentioned questions... and make the decision based on those answers.

 

[IreneKa]

And, based on what OP said in the beginning, I couldn't disagree more. Her daughter is bored. Bars is keeping her from being able to move up a level and training harder skills on her stronger events.
She is in an area where L1 and L2 are competed. These levels aren't necessary (and neither is L3). The mill circle is irrelevant after L3 (for @IreneKa).
The child is bored to the point of potentially wanting to quit.
This little girl could compete Xcel until she is ready to score out of L4/L5. Her father can help her with strength training (he could talk to the coaches to see what they suggest and just put the program in place at home). I don't know why a gym wouldn't work on proper form with their Xcel athletes since that is where the deductions come from in the Xcel divisions.

OP should talk to the gym a little more... ask all the previously mentioned questions... and make the decision based on those answers.

Well, I only mentioned the mill circle in case they would want to do one year of Xcel (instead of L2), and then come back to JO as a level 3. If she would be in Xcel until the optionals, that's a different story.

 

[LJL07]

And, based on what OP said in the beginning, I couldn't disagree more. Her daughter is bored. Bars is keeping her from being able to move up a level and training harder skills on her stronger events.
She is in an area where L1 and L2 are competed. These levels aren't necessary (and neither is L3). The mill circle is irrelevant after L3 (for @IreneKa).
The child is bored to the point of potentially wanting to quit.
This little girl could compete Xcel until she is ready to score out of L4/L5. Her father can help her with strength training (he could talk to the coaches to see what they suggest and just put the program in place at home). I don't know why a gym wouldn't work on proper form with their Xcel athletes since that is where the deductions come from in the Xcel divisions.

OP should talk to the gym a little more... ask all the previously mentioned questions... and make the decision based on those answers.

I hear ya. And in our case, I guess it is form that prevents my child from doing l3 for example. To hear me say this, you might imagine that her form is horrendous, but it's actually not. As I have been learning more, her form is pretty much age appropriate for a 7 yr old. The only thing that helps to fix the issue of strength (op's dd) and/or body awareness (DD's issue) is more time in the gym through conditioning and practice. At JO level 2, the gym won't offer more than about 5-6 hrs of training per week, so this is just going to take time. And I kind of agree with you about the pointlessness of competing 8 l1 & l2 meets, but unfortunately, in this area, they are not skipping kids over those levels, not even the talented ones. (I'm not talking about kids that are supremely superstar phenoms with elite level potential, but these are talented kids who could make it to level 10.). I thought the same thing...how nice it would be to switch to xcel and have the opportunity to do bigger skills she might be a couple of years from competing... But I was told to keep mine in Jo, even though yes, it's kind of boring esp right now. Just saying that the op might be in an area where she has no choice but to "go along" with l1 & l2 competition. Switching back over to JO for l4/l5 wouldn't be an option over here.

 

[SignHere]

However, OP says her DD has elite aspirations. This means that her DD needs to learn to deal with the fact that elite gymnastics has a HUGE basis on form and conditioning, essentially. The girls who are ultimately successful in elite track are the ones with the mental "chops", so to speak, to overcome ALL the obstacles. Including boring drill training.

My DD and I had aspirations for her to go elite - we have put them on hold, for now, because we don't think that is the right decision for her. However, and this is a big however, she still loves conditioning, and she still does the boring repetitions of gymnastics to work on getting form as close to perfect as possible.

I truly believe her coaches are doing the little girl a disservice. Unless the Xcel program at the gym is essentially a JO training program, she is not going to get the training she needs to transition to JO/elite track. Although I suppose their are Xcel programs that ARE close to JO programs ... I hear there are ...

 

[LizzieLac]

This very discussion has come up before and I remember Dunno saying that gymnatics success is built on boredom!! Or something like that...because it is repitition, repitition, little form corrections and conditioning, over and over again!

That being said, I like that Excel and JO and even Y programs offer competitive gymnastics at vary levels and degrees. There is something for everyone.

In my state, Excel is just not as rigorous a program. At our gym, they train less hours and condition less. It is a great program for girls who do other sports or do not want to be as serious. But we do allow "some" migration between programs and that has been great for several girls, including my DD who started out in Prep Opt because she was swimming competitively. But decided she wanted to be more serious and put more time into gymnastics, so switched over. We have had other girls think they wanted to try other sports and go from JO to Excel, but come back to JO.

If you are at a gym that will allow that, I think it is a good thing. However, in our gym and state, if you want to really want to progress in gymnastics to level 9-10 skills, compete in college or go elite, you go the JO track.

 

[Natasha]

Now that Xcel is nationalized, I wish they would just get rid of JO L1 and L2 as competitive levels. Let gymnasts that show the natural strength and ability to get to optionals train on pre team until L3 or L4 and not waste valuable training time with learning these routines. For those that want the fun of competing and may not ever even make it to upper optionals, they can start out competing Xcel Bronze and have a fun competitive experience…they can then either stay xcel or transition to JO. I really think doing well at L1 and L2 is a better predictor of who would be a good dancer and who can memorize routines well rather than actual gymnastics potential.
To the OP, is her "boredom" repeating routines, dance positions, etc or is it the boredom of perfecting skills? If it is the 1st, then yes, competing L2 can kill her interest in gymnastics and it would be great to either just train and not compete or go to Xcel. If it is the 2nd, then, well, it is just a part she has to learn to endure if she is going to exceed in the sport.

 

[LJL07]

Now that Xcel is nationalized, I wish they would just get rid of JO L1 and L2 as competitive levels. Let gymnasts that show the natural strength and ability to get to optionals train on pre team until L3 or L4 and not waste valuable training time with learning these routines. For those that want the fun of competing and may not ever even make it to upper optionals, they can start out competing Xcel Bronze and have a fun competitive experience…they can then either stay xcel or transition to JO. I really think doing well at L1 and L2 is a better predictor of who would be a good dancer and who can memorize routines well rather than actual gymnastics potential.
To the OP, is her "boredom" repeating routines, dance positions, etc or is it the boredom of perfecting skills? If it is the 1st, then yes, competing L2 can kill her interest in gymnastics and it would be great to either just train and not compete or go to Xcel. If it is the 2nd, then, well, it is just a part she has to learn to endure if she is going to exceed in the sport.

A huge ditto esp to the bolded part. I know of a couple of kids at our old gym who scored very high in levels 1&2, but can't do a robhs yet for l3, so who cares if they placed high at level 1. They are repeating level 2. This is an interesting thread!