Age divisions at States

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MaryA

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DD competed in States this weekend and was the only one from her age group from her gym. I know, it happens, everyone does it, etc. Within this one meet of 75-ish 11-year-olds, awards were broken up into 3 age groups (11a, 11b, and 11c). My question is, they break them up by age so that State Champions can be determined, but is the fact that my daughter is State Champion on Beam in the 11A age group (which she is, by the way :D ) really any more meaningful than if she just competed against all the other 11-year-olds who happened to be in her session, rather than those who happened to have a birthday in the same 4-month window as her?

DD had a fine time at States with her one coach, and did very well, but she was in a group with a bunch of other "single" gymnasts, and for bars and especially for vault, EVERYTHING needed to be changed before each practice turn. Adjust the spring board. Put the big foamy thing around the spring board. Put out the mat that shows you where to start your jump. Adjust the height of the vault. Girl vaults. Re-adjust the spring board. Take the big foamy thing off from around the spring board. Remove the mat that shows you where to start your vault. Adust the height of the vault. Next girl vaults. Repeat. The result was that these girls ended up only getting 2-3 practice runs, while the girls who were all there from the same gym at least had all the same "stuff" set up, even if the vault height needed to be adjusted (which it often didn't), got a lot more practice turns. And the number of coaches clustered around the vault waiting to do all the switching around for their one lone gymnast was comical. Not to mention that DD would have just like to be with her teammates and I would have liked to be with her teammates parents. At the compulsary levels, shouldn't it still be mostly about fun and teamwork and stuff like that?

I know, it is what it is. DD had a great time and did a great job. No real complaints. And I know this is how it is done at the upper levels to determine who goes to regionals, nationals, etc. But at the levels where that's not an issue, and where there are still enough kids in each level that even each age group needs to be broken down into micro-age-groups, why not just let them all go as a team? I wouldn't be any less proud of DD if she was State Beam Champion out of the 11-year-olds at the 9am Sunday meet than I am of her being State Beam Champion of the 11A age group, and they're both fairly random ways of dividing the kids up. You could say that, if they weren't divided by age, it would be less fair because some gyms would be competing against "stronger" gyms than others. But that's how it works out when you divide them by age too. Some well-known gyms in our state push kids through the early levels as fast as possible, so they have a ton of 8-9 year olds, while others like to keep girls at each level for more than one year, so they may have more 11-12 year olds.

OK, I'm done with my vent now. Thanks for listening! ;)
 
yep, it is what it is ;) The same thing happens at DD's state meet. They have to divide up the age groups somehow, and that's the way the chips fall. I understand your frustration about the equipment settings, etc., when there's just one girl per gym....that happened at DD's states too!
 
Well, I guess it is just traditional to have the age group compete at the same time. I see your point, though it would be tough to account for all the gyms and their various sizes and ages - would make it so in some sessions there was only one 7 year old or one 15 year old, not much of a "state" competition. If you're in the middle of the age range for the particular level - say an 8 year old level 4 or an 11 year old level 6 - then it doesn't seem to matter as much, but it would be harder to arrange a group for the smaller age divisions.

But they should really only do 3 practice turns of FHS vault - no need for me. Even at higher levels three turns are standard but they'll usually overlook a sprint/run through turn around here (not sure what the official line is on that one though). Then usually timer, flip (layout timer if twisting), full vault. And that can be a for a girl competing a yurchenko full. If they are competing FHS then the first time they hit the springboard presumably they do their competitive vault. Although some gyms do jump up first (that's fine) but then they still will be able to do their full vault in the second turn. :)
 
Way it happens in NJ is they take total amount of girls of one age and then divide them into jrs and srs. larger age groups at other levels may even get a Jr, middle and sr division, like in L4 or L5. So, when you win beam (CONGRATS to your daughter btw) it is the top score of the Jrs or Srs division. So you could have only one from a gym, but at least it would be all gyms with girls who are within 6 month in age of each other. Warm ups are timed and I believe they don't start until equiptment is ready for them, even though it is a PITA. Gyms with a couple girls don't get more time, even though it seems like that. It is the the individual time times how many girls on team. Say beam warm up is 1 minute per gymnast and 5 girls in group, they have to share 5 minutes. If you have a teamate that sucks the clock on a routine then others may not even get full time, LOL
 
Our level 4 state age divisions were a little wonky- but I guess it worked. They had 2 child divisions of ages 6-8, a division for 9 yo, one for 10 yo, one for 11 yo, one for 12 yo, and two for senior divisions ages 13+. Each child and senior group had about 22-24 gymnasts while the 4 age groups specific to one age had 14 gymnasts each. I suppose they do that to make rotations quicker and also to be able to give additional awards and offer "tangible" incentive to stick with the sport. I feel like once upon a time there were 2 age divisions- junior and senior- and meets lasted ALL DAY. As a parent- these shorter sessions are nice- but I do worry about all the "rewards" given to children these days- and not just in this sport.
 
We never compete as a team, only as a level and age group. Plus all our setting are standardized so only the spring board for vault and the bar width can be altered. Oh and only the top 32 in the whole Province gets to go to "States", that usually leaves about 200 girls sitting at home wishing.

You have no idea how good you have it!! :D
 
We had several girls in that situation (not mine though). The plus side is that they get a lot of individual attention from the coach in that situation. I know one of girls who always seems to be in that situation (because she's so much younger than the others) loves it that way. Congrats on the beam championship! That's a great accomplishment. Hopefully she's already started the uptraining for level 7.
 
I can't answer your question, or your vent lol, but hey, you were in my neck of the woods for States. How funny that it was almost around the corner, and yet, my daughter has states for her Y league this weekend and we have to travel almost 3 hours!

Also congrats to your daughter!

Oh well!
DD competed in States this weekend and was the only one from her age group from her gym. I know, it happens, everyone does it, etc. Within this one meet of 75-ish 11-year-olds, awards were broken up into 3 age groups (11a, 11b, and 11c). My question is, they break them up by age so that State Champions can be determined, but is the fact that my daughter is State Champion on Beam in the 11A age group (which she is, by the way :D ) really any more meaningful than if she just competed against all the other 11-year-olds who happened to be in her session, rather than those who happened to have a birthday in the same 4-month window as her?

DD had a fine time at States with her one coach, and did very well, but she was in a group with a bunch of other "single" gymnasts, and for bars and especially for vault, EVERYTHING needed to be changed before each practice turn. Adjust the spring board. Put the big foamy thing around the spring board. Put out the mat that shows you where to start your jump. Adjust the height of the vault. Girl vaults. Re-adjust the spring board. Take the big foamy thing off from around the spring board. Remove the mat that shows you where to start your vault. Adust the height of the vault. Next girl vaults. Repeat. The result was that these girls ended up only getting 2-3 practice runs, while the girls who were all there from the same gym at least had all the same "stuff" set up, even if the vault height needed to be adjusted (which it often didn't), got a lot more practice turns. And the number of coaches clustered around the vault waiting to do all the switching around for their one lone gymnast was comical. Not to mention that DD would have just like to be with her teammates and I would have liked to be with her teammates parents. At the compulsary levels, shouldn't it still be mostly about fun and teamwork and stuff like that?

I know, it is what it is. DD had a great time and did a great job. No real complaints. And I know this is how it is done at the upper levels to determine who goes to regionals, nationals, etc. But at the levels where that's not an issue, and where there are still enough kids in each level that even each age group needs to be broken down into micro-age-groups, why not just let them all go as a team? I wouldn't be any less proud of DD if she was State Beam Champion out of the 11-year-olds at the 9am Sunday meet than I am of her being State Beam Champion of the 11A age group, and they're both fairly random ways of dividing the kids up. You could say that, if they weren't divided by age, it would be less fair because some gyms would be competing against "stronger" gyms than others. But that's how it works out when you divide them by age too. Some well-known gyms in our state push kids through the early levels as fast as possible, so they have a ton of 8-9 year olds, while others like to keep girls at each level for more than one year, so they may have more 11-12 year olds.

OK, I'm done with my vent now. Thanks for listening! ;)
 
In our state the rules are set that they go out 50% for medals, but then also to a max of 15 places. So that means if there are over 30 girls in an age group they will split the age group so that medals can go out 50%. At my DD level 6 state meet she was a 10 year old. When the initital state info was released the 10 year old age group had 28 kids in it, but the 11 and 12 year olds were split age groups (11a, 11b, 12a, and 12b) with 16 to 24 kids in the splits. I questioned this and was told that the 10 year olds were not split because they could still go out 50% (less than 15 places), but for the other age groups it would have been only 15 places, and not 50%. By the time that States did roll around, 10 year old were broke out into two age groups.
 
As for the warm ups, my son's regional championships this weekened were one-touch warm ups. Period. No other options. They did one quick routine, and once everyone in their group was finished, they competed. If they were doing more than one, they could get a deduction.

As for age groups...we have it the opposite. My son's age group at the regionals had 96 boys in it! they went out 10 places on events and I think 22 or 25 on the all around. So that left a lot of boys just sitting. it was hard to watch. 96 boys in one age group in one session, all competing against each other. There were 2 age groups. The next age group up had 28 boys, and they went out 6 places in teh events and 10 in teh all around. (yes, that is 126 boys competing in ONE session...it was LONG!)

I
 
Wow, Skschlag, that is a LOT of kids!! For girls, I don't think that would be allowed under USAG rules, at least in our state. I want to say there is a max number of girls per session of about 70 kids...? I know DD's states session cut it close with 69. We had three age groups (8a, 8b, 8c) with those 69 girls.
 
I don't have anything useful to add in terms of how states is set up but I just wanted to say congrats to your dd for earning state beam champion! :D
 
Wow, Skschlag, that is a LOT of kids!! For girls, I don't think that would be allowed under USAG rules, at least in our state. I want to say there is a max number of girls per session of about 70 kids...? I know DD's states session cut it close with 69. We had three age groups (8a, 8b, 8c) with those 69 girls.

if they do traditional format it's okay. and you can always get permission to go a couple of kids over in judgements.
 
LOL! Not for boys...and it was modified capital cup competition....and one team (BIG team) that takes 1 1/2- 2 minutes per floor routine....it takes forever!
 
My son's age group at the regionals had 96 boys in it! they went out 10 places on events and I think 22 or 25 on the all around. So that left a lot of boys just sitting. it was hard to watch. 96 boys in one age group in one session, all competing against each other. There were 2 age groups. The next age group up had 28 boys, and they went out 6 places in teh events and 10 in teh all around. (yes, that is 126 boys competing in ONE session...it was LONG!)

Ah. And now I know why our gym does not take the compulsory guys to regionals! LOL! (And thank goodness, especially if DS moves up and does OK at L5 next year!)
 
LOL! Not for boys...and it was modified capital cup competition....and one team (BIG team) that takes 1 1/2- 2 minutes per floor routine....it takes forever!

the boys side does whatever it takes to get it done. i think this is generally accepted. this includes going over judgements. on the girls side, you have to fight for going over even 2 judgements.
 
Our state has much bigger age groups. My little dd (Level 4) had 40 in her age group (7 & under) and they went out 15 places in each event and 20 for all around. My older dd (Level 8) had 21 in her age group (11 & under) and they went out 10 places for events but gave everyone a certificate for all around. Lots of girl getting nothing... makes it more special I guess if you are one that gets something?! I've seen the age groups for state in previous years as big as 50, but still 15 for events and 20 all around.

And most importantly... Congratulations on your dd's accomplishment - many kids will never be a state champion of any kind!
 
though it would be tough to account for all the gyms and their various sizes and ages - would make it so in some sessions there was only one 7 year old or one 15 year old, not much of a "state" competition. If you're in the middle of the age range for the particular level - say an 8 year old level 4 or an 11 year old level 6 - then it doesn't seem to matter as much, but it would be harder to arrange a group for the smaller age divisions.

:)

OK, this makes sense. And whoever it was who said that it only seems like the bigger groups got more turns, I'll take your word for it. But it sure did seem that way!
 

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