Coaches Layouts

[gymnellie]

My daughter is trying to correct her layout and we need some advice. When she does a tuck, she is very high but in her layout her head is only inches from the floor and she has to pike to land on her feet. What could she be doing wrong and how can she correct it?

 

[gracefulone]

I'm the opposite. My tucks were so-so, but my layouts are really good. We did an AWESOME drill on wed. We stacked up a resi(port-a pit some call it) and a wedge mat. Then we did a round-off backhandspring to the mat, stretch up, and then do a backward roll down the wedge. I don't know if you have the space or ability to do this at your gym, but it works very well. The important things on layouts are to really stretch up on the set and to use your toes to rotate.

 

[gymnellie]

They do those drills all the time! She can do those just fine. I think it is mental. She knows that it is a bigger skill than a tuck and that she has to have it for level 7 and she concentrates on the straight body part instead of the rebound set part. I tell her to do the tuck kickout to layout because than she still does the rebound and sets. but she doesn't want to do anything that the coaches don't ok first. Which, I guess, is a good thing. But she can do that skill beautifully! I don't know if it is even a real skill with a name.

 

[hammy]

When she does the layout have her look for something on the wall as she flips; also make sure she brings her arms all the way up by her ears--the higher the arms go on the set, the higher the flip goes. Don't be afraid to land short, just keep your body open and pull your toes over your head in a hollow shape.

 

[ACoach78]

also make sure she brings her arms all the way up by her ears--the higher the arms go on the set, the higher the flip goes. .

That's not true at all. If you don't believe me, go look up Liukin's triple back on YouTube and tell me how high his arms go. They're not even close to being by his ears.

The "old school" rationale is that lifting the arms up next to the ears will help one to attain more height. The only way that it would even remotely assist you is that lifting the arms overhead does raise the initial position of the center of mass slightly. Unfortunately, by also lifting the arms overhead, you lengthen your body (increase in moment of inertia) and this will actually cause you rotate slower.

However, the biggest dilemma is the fact that when the body is moving in a tumbling pass it has a certain amount of horizontal momentum (mass x velocity). Well, since the human body is not a single, rigid segment, the velocity is distributed across the different links. What tends to happen when you swing those arms up by your ears is that the resulting momentum of the head, arms, and torso (HAT) continue to move slightly backwards once the feet are planted just prior to take-off. This occurs because the combined mass of the HAT has a significant amount of inertia (resistance to change in motion).

Since the HAT continues to move further backwards once the feet are planted, it actually causes the center of mass to move too far behind the base of support (feet) and this affects the angle of take-off. So, this results in a low, flat trajectory despite the fact that there is typically sufficient rotation.

The best approach is to lift the arms somewhere between directly straight out from the body to approximately 45 degrees relative to one's straight line from eye level. Essentially, you're consciously stopping the segments and in theory the resulting momentum should transfer to the rest of the body.

 

[BlairBob]

Last Region 1 Congress, I pretty much heard the same thing from Dave Adlard. I'm still figuring it out, and though I understand the theory - I have yet to test and apply it much.

 

[gymnellie]

The best approach is to lift the arms somewhere between directly straight out from the body to approximately 45 degrees relative to one's straight line from eye level. Essentially, you're consciously stopping the segments and in theory the resulting momentum should transfer to the rest of the body.[/quote]


So basically what you're saying is that her body needs to look like a T. When the other girls do that the coaches yell at them and tell them to get their arms up. She can't apply these helps anyway right now, because she is out for 6 weeks due to a bruised growth plate.

 

[gymnellie]

The best approach is to lift the arms somewhere between directly straight out from the body to approximately 45 degrees relative to one's straight line from eye level. Essentially, you're consciously stopping the segments and in theory the resulting momentum should transfer to the rest of the body.

So basically what you're saying is that her body needs to look like a T. When the other girls do that the coaches yell at them and tell them to get their arms up. She can't apply these helps anyway right now, because she is out for 6 weeks due to a bruised growth plate.[/quote]

 

[gymnellie]

Sorry for the double post!

 

[ACoach78]

No, they shouldn't look like a "T". You should bend at the elbows as this makes it easier to lift your arms because it shortens their overall length.

Basically, the configuration of your arms should take on sort of a "diamond" shape for gymnastics.

If you're twisting, it is advantageous to set them wider. I wouldn't go as wide as being a "T" for gymnastics, though. However, often if you watch trampolinists twist, they'll look like a "T" as they're setting up for the twist.

 

[hammy]

Sorry about wording that incorrectly---I didn't mean for it to sound like the arms were to go back completely by the ears; especially if you're twisting (as others have mentioned). Doesn't it help to have a longer bhs, in which your take off angle for the flip is about 45 degrees---to stop the backward moment and send it upwards. Also--aren't your arms already close by your ears (about 45 degrees) coming out of your bhs.

Check out drills and skills:

http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/Floor/B/bfb002

 

[CoachL]

its all about arm speed and maintaining good shape through the layout. I've seen alot of coaches telling their gymnasts to drop their arms....that should never happen...ever. What needs to happen is an extremely strong arm through into the layout and the arms will remain slightly past the ears on the set, as the layout turns over your body will speed up and eventually your arms will be at near your hips if you let the body rotate.

 

[hammy]

So..what you're saying is that the arms should remain by their ears until the gymnast is in the flip. I agree that it is about speed and maintaining a good shape.