2016 Women's Artistic Gymnastics Olympic Team!

[Seeker]

They used to take the combined scores of Nationals and Trials. There would always be a few petitions like Miller and Moceanu in 96. I believe Miller sat out Nationals in 92 because she was still coming back from an elbow surgery and petitioned based on her Trials results.

Because we all agree that consistency is important and what they actually DID at these meets should count more than reputation right?






The team would look like this:

1. Simone
2. Laurie
3. Aly
4. Gabby
5. Maggie (if you allow her to petition to use just her trials scores)


6. Madison - Alt
7. Ragan - Alt
8. Amelia - Alt
9. Mykayla - I guess she wasn't robbed. You can't bomb nationals and expect to make the team under the old system.

Under the old system what could you do with Ashton?

Interesting huh?

This is exactly the kind of information/analysis the terrible trio on NBC should have provided rather than the non-stop blathering on they did about stuff that didn't matter or was just blatently incorrect. Maybe they could have avoided the outrage and backlash over the past few days if they'd actually done a proper job. Because, you know -- math works.

 

[Sandra]

I'm going on total memory here, but in 2004 the team wasn't selected from trials at all. It was a camp selection. Several people above her went down. Tabitha Yim tore her Achilles, I forget the other injury. Annia was also coming back from the knee injury she sustained at 2003 worlds. So by the time the camp competition rolled around she was in better AA shape. But they never released camp ranking.

I guess I don't consider Annia a specialist because she was a high ranked AA vs someone who actually couldn't do the event AT all if needed. I'm thinking of the definition per competition rules set by USAG. They have a number they must achieve if they are a specialist competing only 1,2,3 events.

It will be interesting leading up to 2020 how things will play out with regards to AA and a true specialist like Ashton and how that works for qualification.

I can't even remember if I watched the '04 trials or not, but when I looked it up there were scores and apparently it happened in Anaheim. Top 2 gymnast got automatic spots and the other 4 were selected during training camp.

Definitely by definition she's an AA gymnast and I think in her past she competed AA internationally before she became a US citizen. I guess, I'm caught up in the way they describe specialist for the Olympic team (even Kocian is described as a specialist and she was 5th in the AA at P&G).

I have mixed emotions about the change, but it'll definitely be interesting to see how the true specialist qualify. My guess is at World's, like event medalist from '15 got automatic berths if their nation didn't qualify a full team.

 

[bogwoppit]

This is exactly the kind of information/analysis the terrible trio on NBC should have provided rather than the non-stop blathering on they did about stuff that didn't matter or was just blatently incorrect. Maybe they could have avoided the outrage and backlash over the past few days if they'd actually done a proper job. Because, you know -- math works.

I am sure NBC used all their dumb systems to cloud the fact that the team is not actually "the best scoring" athletes in the US. More "editing" to get the folks in the US on side with the team. Unfortunately for them we have data and many have used social media to express their dismay that the system is corrupt.

I am mostly thrilled with the team. Sad for Maggie, even a little sad for Mykayla.

 

[profmom]

The Balance Beam Situation provides a really interesting analysis defending the selections at https://balancebeamsituation.com/2016/07/12/olympic-trials-in-review/. Now you may still not agree, but as my civil procedure professor used to tell us, it's an argument.

If NBC had provided this kind of analysis (who does what for the team, who's in peak shape, who's coming back from injury) instead of their inane repetition of tired story lines, it would be much more interesting for everyone, and I think it would not be that hard for good analysts to get the every four year fans up to speed.

 

[ayyyrial]

The old system - summed results from Nationals and Trials - doesn't make sense with a 5-person team or in an era when so many people specialize to some extent on certain events. To maximize team score, we're not looking for a team full of people with high AA scores - especially since we can only put up 2 AAers in the AA finals. I just don't think a standardized team selection procedure based on AA scores would allow us to balance gymnasts' strengths and weaknesses against each other.

Perhaps they could use some kind of data analysis with Nats and Trials scores to compute the max team score on each event. In that case you'd probably wind up with more than 5 gymnasts on the time - e.g. in this year both Kocian and Locklear would be on that team. So you'd still need the personal touch to finalize the team.

Regardless, I hate the way NBC makes it seem as if there are only like 5 or 6 gymnasts in each competition. I get that there's a limited amount of time and they are trying to construct a story, but I wish they'd show at least one routine from each competitor. They deserve that!

 

[vagymmomma]

Doesn't all this change in 2020 anyways? Aren't there specialist spots along with 4 person team?

I think much of the debate centers around what the national team goal is. I think if the goal is to maximize the medal count then Gabby may not have been the right choice. If the goal is 90% team goal then the numbers might add up.

Btw, I thought Gabby's beam the second night was lovely except for the fall. A big except -- but I think a lot less conversation would be happening if she stuck beam.

 

[gymcoach1]

Anyone else see Mykayla's "retweet" on Twitter... that photo of the team, but with her photoshopped in instead of Gabby. Super bad sportsmanship especially towards her own teammate. She has also "liked" hundreds of posts saying she deserved it I've Gabby. I'm no Gabby fan but this definitely changed my outlook on Mykayla.

 

[gymcoach1]

Deserved it ove Gabby* Sorry, typing on my phone.

 

[wallflower]

The old system - summed results from Nationals and Trials - doesn't make sense with a 5-person team or in an era when so many people specialize to some extent on certain events. To maximize team score, we're not looking for a team full of people with high AA scores - especially since we can only put up 2 AAers in the AA finals. I just don't think a standardized team selection procedure based on AA scores would allow us to balance gymnasts' strengths and weaknesses against each other.

Perhaps they could use some kind of data analysis with Nats and Trials scores to compute the max team score on each event. In that case you'd probably wind up with more than 5 gymnasts on the time - e.g. in this year both Kocian and Locklear would be on that team. So you'd still need the personal touch to finalize the team.

Regardless, I hate the way NBC makes it seem as if there are only like 5 or 6 gymnasts in each competition. I get that there's a limited amount of time and they are trying to construct a story, but I wish they'd show at least one routine from each competitor. They deserve that!

I think you missed the sarcasm. People are whining that it isn't fair that Gabby was selected over someone who finished ahead of her in the AA at Trials like Skinner or Ragan.

I'm well aware the team hasn't been selected that way for quite awhile. 1996 was the last time in fact. Specifically people here posted that she wouldn't have "earned" a spot in the old days, when in fact she would have earned a spot! So Gabby actually earns a spot in either scenario.

Gabby earned a spot because she is the only vault/bar combination available. With Madison on the team they need a 4th vaulter for prelims, not just because her vault is a low SV. I believe they would rather her not be injured because they don't want to lose her on bars. Gabby's also perfectly usable on floor if the team really needed her. Ashton isn't otherwise she would be going.

 

[txgymfan]

Gymcoach1, I saw it. She has shown horrible sportsmanship. Hopefully someone at USAG or Utah, ( her future college) will scare some sense into her about social media. I'm not a Gabby fan but I'm not a MyKayla fan either.

I wish Maggie had not been injured, she is an excellent role model.

 

[ayyyrial]

Ok, I computed who would contribute to the max team score based on Nationals and Trials results: Biles, Hernandez, Raisman, Kocian, Skinner, Locklear. Not really a surprise. So how do we get that down to 5?
Basically, Biles, Hernandez, and Raisman are locks. Between Kocian and Locklear it makes more sense to take Kocian with a slightly higher beam score and routines on all 4 events.
So who's the last person?

Between Douglas, Nichols, Smith, and Skinner, each gymnast shines on one event. Looking within that group, Douglas has the highest AA score. Also, Douglas has capability on UB, where the rest of our team is not as strong. So basically she can contribute on bars and is a good back-up if the rest of the team falters on any event. Nichols, on the other hand, stands out on VT and FX where our team is already very strong.

I could also see an argument for Skinner since she has a high vault score and the capability to make event finals.

It would be interesting to try to pick a 4-person team from this mix, with an eye towards 2020. I guess it would be Biles, Hernandez, Raisman and Kocian.

 

[sewgood]

regarding meaningless trials:

I was at the trials and while waiting for the selection committee to come out, checked my facebook - the picture of the 5 girls was posted right as the girls were walking out onto the floor area...

The picture was obviously taken before tonight's competition... I think regardless of what happened Sunday night, they had already made chosen the team.. maybe they took 2 pictures - 1 with Locklear and 1 with Kocian...

That "photo" was green screened and photoshopped. And not very well, I might add. :/

In many ways I wish we would go back to the old way we did trials "back in the day" when we had two days of trials and it was a pure competition and may the best gymnast's make the team-fair and square. This is just how a lot of sports do it. I just finished watching track and field trials which were on for about 10 days and you run your best race/have your best throw and that's it-you're either on or off. Sure would end a lot of all of the nonsense!! Of course, even back then we had our controversies!

That's a great way to start losing on the world stage again. I guess it depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to have a "fair" domestic meet, then that makes sense. If your goal is a team gold, with 2 individual AA medalists, and some event medals thrown in as well, then that is not at all a good idea at all. Martha has always been clear about her priorities (team, individual AA, individual EF medalists... at no point does she care about domestic meets other than the data they give her to help puzzle together the best possible teams for Worlds/Olympics).

Does anyone know why alternates aren't taken to Rio (like they do on the Men's side and Women do for Worlds)? Wouldn't it make sense to have them there in case someone gets injured at the last minute. Then they could be at peak form if they needed to sub in for anyone. And, the alternates could also have an experience of a lifetime being at the Olympic games cheering on their teammates.

I'm pretty sure they travel to Rio; they just don't stay in the Olympic village. I don't know if they attend the actual competition, though.

 

[gymdog]

I am sure NBC used all their dumb systems to cloud the fact that the team is not actually "the best scoring" athletes in the US. More "editing" to get the folks in the US on side with the team. Unfortunately for them we have data and many have used social media to express their dismay that the system is corrupt.

I am mostly thrilled with the team. Sad for Maggie, even a little sad for Mykayla.

I feel terrible for all of them also...But the anger is misplaced. It isn't Gabby's fault and realistically she is a more well rounded gymnast with better execution minus her falls on beam (where she probably won't be used, so it's a little irrelevant, but if they had to use her there is a chance she could bring in a pretty high score actually). It isn't her fault that this time they're taking less than they will in the future or have in the past. It's the fault of the teams being cut down and the gymnasts used to craft the team score being cut down. That's what lost them the spot, not Gabby and not themselves...they performed admirably.

And yeah, in 1996 Gabby would have still qualified in 7th place with two falls...no one else in the top 7 fell twice although I guess Simone almost did. So her execution and difficulty is actually very good comparatively. I haven't added it up but with no falls I think second or third. Mykayla did the same thing at P and G's so I'm not sure that it can really be claimed she has superiority over Gabby in this instance.

Bottom line I think they both deserved it, it sucks and I'm sad for them that's there no good explanation of why some of the most deserving athletes in the world can't go bc I don't think it's helping the rest of the world get better at gymnastics.

 

[bogwoppit]

I feel terrible for all of them also...But the anger is misplaced. It isn't Gabby's fault and realistically she is a more well rounded gymnast with better execution minus her falls on beam (where she probably won't be used, so it's a little irrelevant, but if they had to use her there is a chance she could bring in a pretty high score actually). It isn't her fault that this time they're taking less than they will in the future or have in the past. It's the fault of the teams being cut down and the gymnasts used to craft the team score being cut down. That's what lost them the spot, not Gabby and not themselves...they performed admirably.

And yeah, in 1996 Gabby would have still qualified in 7th place with two falls...no one else in the top 7 fell twice although I guess Simone almost did. So her execution and difficulty is actually very good comparatively. I haven't added it up but with no falls I think second or third. Mykayla did the same thing at P and G's so I'm not sure that it can really be claimed she has superiority over Gabby in this instance.

Bottom line I think they both deserved it, it sucks and I'm sad for them that's there no good explanation of why some of the most deserving athletes in the world can't go bc I don't think it's helping the rest of the world get better at gymnastics.

I am totally not angry with Gabby, I never said that once.

I am totally peeved with the fact that the team was clearly pre determined and trials really had nothing to do with the selection process.

I went to Canadian trials and watched the process there. The two trials are worlds apart.

The NBC broadcast was not about 14 girls vying for a place on the team, it was about the team vying for a place on the team they were already on.

That is what gets to me.

I think when the team is basically a known thing that going through this three ring circus is a farce. Brutal for the gymnasts, unnecessarily so.

Frankly I think trials was all about the $$$$, not about the team.

 

[amiandjim]

Gymcoach1, I saw it. She has shown horrible sportsmanship. Hopefully someone at USAG or Utah, ( her future college) will scare some sense into her about social media. I'm not a Gabby fan but I'm not a MyKayla fan either.

I wish Maggie had not been injured, she is an excellent role model.

She deleted the tweets and post an "apology" that didn't seem much like an apology. Rumor is that USAG had words with her.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Rumor is that USAG had words with her.

A quasi-related question... (I'll start a new thread if needed!) Can we assume McKayla Maroney was not invited to the parade of Olympians? She was the only Fierce Five member not there and I assumed it had to do with that interview?

 

[aerials]

This is exactly the kind of information/analysis the terrible trio on NBC should have provided rather than the non-stop blathering on they did about stuff that didn't matter or was just blatently incorrect. Maybe they could have avoided the outrage and backlash over the past few days if they'd actually done a proper job. Because, you know -- math works.

Exactly!! Hopefully NBC has read some of the commentary about their coverage on gymnastics. Maybe it will get better.

 

[duyetanh]

A quasi-related question... (I'll start a new thread if needed!) Can we assume McKayla Maroney was not invited to the parade of Olympians? She was the only Fierce Five member not there and I assumed it had to do with that interview?

For her own reasons, she probably didn't want to be there, as well as not being invited.... but that is just my guess....never heard anything about it. Makes sense though. She made it very clear in her interview about her opinions on things, and it probably wasn't well accepted.

 

[Sandra]

I'm pretty sure they travel to Rio; they just don't stay in the Olympic village. I don't know if they attend the actual competition, though.

I'm not sure how the process works for alternates on the Women's side, the Men's side are all going to Rio (Donnell and Modi, Leyva replacing Orozco). Someone else mentioned that they'll be at the Ranch instead of Rio and I was curious as to why they don't travel as well. Some are speculating it's because the time difference isn't a lot (2 hours) and there are direct flights out of Houston. I hope you're right and they do get to go

For her own reasons, she probably didn't want to be there, as well as not being invited.... but that is just my guess....never heard anything about it. Makes sense though. She made it very clear in her interview about her opinions on things, and it probably wasn't well accepted.

I was wondering about this too. Thought it was strange that she wasn't there. Are you guys talking about the interview where she talked about not being able to smile and being told she needed to be smaller? Also, she was in the Made in America video on the USAG youtube page so I figured any negative emotions on either sides was squashed until I saw she wasn't at the parade of Olympians... but, who knows maybe it was just a scheduling conflict.

 

[sce]

until I saw she wasn't at the parade of Olympians... but, who knows maybe it was just a scheduling conflict.

It could be that simple. Brett McClure was in a friend's wedding that weekend, so only made it to night 2 of trials.