MAG Excellent article on the decline of boys gymnastics

[LilHawkMom]

It makes me so sad about the state of boys gymnastics and college level gymnastics. This article is right about several things. A couple of things:
The open ending scoring, I always wondered why jo boys do this vs jo girls and even college girls don't do this.
Would an excel program work for boys? Maybe so, then boys could still play other sports and not have to pick especially if they are not going to be elite/college level/future stars and boys seem to be heavily pushed to do other sports.
Definitely had to laugh at the "I was 157th on pommels at Nationals." and how we have so many more going to Nationals and I now it is even more with adding level 8
I also agree with the age grouping comment. Why do we have two ages together in most all the meets we go to it is this way. And I do think it can be discouraging. Though I don't think we have to go overboard with the medals, but at least breaking up the ages.
We now are separating junior elite from jo boys? Is this a good thing or not?
When people learn my son is in gymnastics and doing fairly well they always jump to "college scholarship". I don't have the heart to tell them it is not likely anymore unless he turns to be Sam Mikulak.

What can be done? What is being done? Would love to hear other thoughts on these issues.

http://www.insidegymnastics.com/content/show/newsarticle.aspx?articleid=1711&zoneid=1

 

[skschlag]

I say a lot of this is true. But, I am not sure that right now, there are enough in it to support a 3rd stream. I see how it could help, but we need to make sure we aren't thinning things out even more.

We had the age group thing in spades this year. Level 6 seems to have it hard! D's age group would have easily 2-3 times as many kids as the other age groups. Breaking up the ages like the girls would be great.

And I am still not sure how I feel about separating JO/JE. Especially since you will still have gyms moving boys back and forth to ensure they qualify as many as possible. Now, D is set to do JE when he gets there, but who knows. maybe we need to have 2 streams, but instead of JO/JE we need JO and then Excel?

 

[Sperkowsky]

I myself am a male gymnast and being at the p&g championships this year I am definately seeing this. There was only 30 boy shirts for sale in the entire competition(not styles actual shirts) and the sizes they had were mens large and xlarge, obviously for all those very large gymnasts. They had no boys waterbottels, bags, sweatshirts, ect. So there was nothing to buy as a boy gymnast; while there was 3 shirt options 2 bag options 4 sweatshirt options and 2 waterbottle options for the girls. Also there are very little male gymnasts watching the event. As for the medaling opurtunities at some meets (larger meets) as a level 8 I was in the same medaling category of 17 year olds (im 13) this is bad and they are not promoting boys to stay in the sport.

 

[skschlag]

Yet, they think they are promoting boys to stay with the JE/JO track. I fear it will do the opposite

 

[munchkin3]

I was discussing this with a friend last week. She has two kids, a boy and a girl. They are beginning to take some college courses in high school, and her daughter L9, decided to go prep op, because she wants more time for school and even to get a job. She loves gymnastics and does not want to quit all together.
Her son on the other hand does not have this option. The team is very competitive, and as the boys get older and hit the higher levels, they just dropout all together. He is also L 9 taking some college courses, and wants to hit the gym maybe 4 days a week, but this is unheard of.
If there were a less intensive branch, maybe some of the 14/15/16 year old, L7-l10 who quit may still be there....hence a bigger, more robust program.
The complaint is always, I want to keep doing gymnastics, just not SO much. At our gym, boys MUST compete. Although coach tries to demand the hours, he knows that with school, he is not going to get all the hours he wants.

 

[emorymom]

My opinion.

US men's gymnastics should spend a little money on a PR and media person.

They should maintain a separate web domain. Not just one that's clearly second to the girls (it's second on the page). The web site promoting the sport should be as exciting and inclusive as this http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx Gymnastics has a LOT to learn from swimming. USA Swimming is doin' it right.

There should be fitness games on the web site, goals, video and page athlete profiles showing aspirational well rounded young men of all ages ... things to bring families in to the idea that this sport is like CrossFit for kids (something the parents understand and see as manly) but more XTREME. I realize you purists are all gasping and thinking I don't get it but if time and time again, talented boys' parents are not willing to spend the money on your sport because they don't see its value then this can't be turned around. Boy's gymnastics *is* an extreme sport for the hardcore. It should be promoted as such.

The typical uniforms are intolerable to many families. Cultural prejudice runs deep. They are not part of the aspirational image needed. The boys need to be competing in very wide shouldered compression shirts.

And if ANY coach out there is selecting for team AGAINST tall talented boys ... and I don't think there's nearly so many as in women's but there might be a few ... knock it off. This can't continue to be perceived as a sport of last resort, for boys too short to play anything else.

Fact is most parents put boys in sport and are willing to spend $$$ on it largely to raise their social standing.

 

[skschlag]

It would be great to see more done to promote these amazing young men who are doign so well in gymnastics, like Sam Mikulak and all the wonderful men that competed this weekend. What great role models for our young boys. And to see them more often, on tv, etc, would be incredible! When D talks about his favorite athletes, people have no idea who he is talking about, despite the fact that they are great athletes, good students, and upstanding community members. I am so happy for my son to have great role models, unlike some of his friends who idolize other sports stars that really don't have that moral character that I admire.

 

[JBS]

I agree that the men's program is very flawed. The article is very good. An Xcel type men's program would be hard until there are more boys.

 

[profmom]

A better PR campaign by USAG would help, but I agree that it's difficult if there is no stream for teenage boys who don't want to make gymnastics their religion. Based on the very little I know, part of the problem is also the decline of high school gymnastics for boys. It used to be a viable alternative path -- as it is now for girls. But gym requires good coaching and equipment, and parents won't threaten to burn down the school if it's cut (unlike football). It's a vicious circle -- fewer male gymnasts means fewer potential coaches, fewer role models, fewer parents who steer their boys into the sport, and fewer coaches of other sports who recommend gym as cross training. And class plays a role too -- we all know that gym is expensive -- but I think the differential between gym and other sports is diminishing (unfortunately) as club sports increasingly dominate the scene.

I wish more parents were paying attention to Sam Mikulak, John Orozco, Jake Dalton, Jon Horton, Paul Ruggeri, etc. As Skschlag says, who do you want your son to emulate, not just as an athlete, but as a person?

I don't think it's ever going to be like some of the other more popular team sports -- gymnastics takes a lot of work and dedication just to be able to compete at a very basic level -- but I think there is a huge wealth of untapped potential in the US, and I am sad to see so many boys missing out on such an excellent source of lifetime preparation.

Sigh.

 

[2G1B]

Very interesting article. My DS HAS asked why colleges around here don't have men's teams like they have women's (we have talked about going to UGA for a meet and he asked about the boys). I also have had friends ask if I'm "trying to make him into a boy cheerleader or something" just because he does gymnastics. People just don't get it. He goes to a school of 1,000 kids (K-5th) and there are only 2 of the boys in the entire school who do competitive gymnastics (that I know of, there are 2 that do rec). Compare that to the girls, and there is quite a difference in participation in the sport.

I have noticed a difference in the size of the age groups for him vs his sisters. The smallest group he has ever been in was 11 kids, I think the largest was right around 40. State last year was 16. My girls competed AAU last year and normally they had about 9 girls in their age group, though they did have 20+ at state. BUT... at least at the meets we have been to in previous years, they broke the age groups down pretty far - like it wasn't uncommon to have 7-8 jr A, 7-8 jr B, 7-8 sr A and 7-8 sr B. So they did seem to try to break them down. What I have seen though is that our metro area has a good number of gyms with boys' teams, and then we also are a reasonable driving distance for 4 states around us, so for invitationals we often have quite a few boys from other states at our competitions. States is sometimes smaller than our normal meets because it is *just* the kids in our state.

It sounds like as the boys move up in levels though that they might be competing against more kids who can be several years older. From looking back at meets on meetscoresonline, it looks like often level 7 was the worst for this with an age group of 13+, where at the levels 8-10 it seems to be more typical to have only a 2 year spread.

As for the future of the sport... I really think that there needs to be something past high school for these boys to do with the sport if we want them to stick with it. Currently there are so few colleges that offer men's gymnastics that scholarships aren't a reasonable goal for most of the boys. But you are talking about kids who from a young age have spent most of their free time in the gym. So suddenly they graduate from high school and there is nothing else to do with the sport? I just think that teenagers want to do something that they see will help them continue their friendships into college. Even if it is just club teams, it will be good for the sport to get it back into colleges IMO.

 

[OwlGalLiz]

It would be great to see more done to promote these amazing young men who are doign so well in gymnastics, like Sam Mikulak and all the wonderful men that competed this weekend. What great role models for our young boys. And to see them more often, on tv, etc, would be incredible! When D talks about his favorite athletes, people have no idea who he is talking about, despite the fact that they are great athletes, good students, and upstanding community members. I am so happy for my son to have great role models, unlike some of his friends who idolize other sports stars that really don't have that moral character that I admire.

I know. My son's athletic heroes are gymnasts, and non-athletic heroes are firefighters. I hope that continues his whole life. We are just starting on the gymnastics team path and I hope that men's gymnastics continues to grow as my son goes through it.

 

[OwlGalLiz]

I wish more parents were paying attention to Sam Mikulak, John Orozco, Jake Dalton, Jon Horton, Paul Ruggeri, etc. As Skschlag says, who do you want your son to emulate, not just as an athlete, but as a person?.

Exactly. My son was fortunate enough to meet some of these excellent role models (and some who competed this weekend) last month and is STILL talking about it and how much he wants to be like them and how awesome they are. Just all around great guys.

 

[profmom]

I also wish more parents realized that chasing an NCAA scholarship is a fool's errand. Consciously or unconsciously, they'll push their boys into baseball rather than gymnastics because college scholarship! After much blood, sweat, tears, and $$ spent on club sports and year-round training, they have an ace pitcher at 12 . . . who gets Tommy John surgery at 13. Of course this happens in gym too, but honestly, if you've ever been to a Little League game and heard parents in the bleachers fretting over batting orders among 7 year olds, it's just ridiculous.

What is the point of pursuing an NCAA scholarship? Most are not full rides. They may encourage teenagers to go to schools that aren't necessarily the best academic fit. In some sports (NOT gymnastics), academic admission standards are lowered for athletes, who struggle terribly despite the support services. And except in a few sports, the surest road to an athletic scholarship, which is by no means a sure road, is to spend a lot more money on developing a young athlete than you'd have spent on college if you'd invested the same money in a good 529 plan.

I think part of the reason for the decline in boys' gymnastics is that American sports have become a heck of a lot less about fun for the kids and a lot more about professionalism, future goals, and achievements. And that is a sad thing.

I like "start here, go anywhere," and I think USAG should do more to tool that message specifically to boys. How many boys do we all know who've left gymnastics and gone on to be brilliant athletes in other sports? More in rec means more on team. And more compulsories means more chances for that little boy who came in 45th at L4 states to fall in love with the sport and adopt the religion.

 

[Quadqueen]

I have noticed a difference in the size of the age groups for him vs his sisters. The smallest group he has ever been in was 11 kids, I think the largest was right around 40. State last year was 16. My girls competed AAU last year and normally they had about 9 girls in their age group, though they did have 20+ at state. BUT... at least at the meets we have been to in previous years, they broke the age groups down pretty far - like it wasn't uncommon to have 7-8 jr A, 7-8 jr B, 7-8 sr A and 7-8 sr B. So they did seem to try to break them down. What I have seen though is that our metro area has a good number of gyms with boys' teams, and then we also are a reasonable driving distance for 4 states around us, so for invitationals we often have quite a few boys from other states at our competitions. States is sometimes smaller than our normal meets because it is *just* the kids in our state.

It sounds like you live in a small state. At states here last year, DS' (young) age group had 74 kids. It's really discouraging to the kids.

 

[profmom]

I do find some things about the article confusing, as it seems that the changes on the boys' side implemented this past competitive year seem to address some of the problems raised. New age rules forbid the 11 YO L9s, the JO/JE streams provide more opportunities to shine at nationals, and dividing JO/JE is intended to open things up a bit more for boys who aren't single-mindedly focused on making the national team. I think it's too early to declare all of this a failure.

 

[skschlag]

See, here I don't see the JO/JE streams as solving anything. JO is still treated like it always was, but the top maybe 5% of kids in that do JE. It does open it a bit. Plus we saw gyms that moved some of their JE kids to JO for state/regionals in order to qualify more boys for nationals. I like the flexibility between the 2, but I think we will see more of this. a few more years will tell...

 

[2G1B]

I don't *think* I'm in a small state... Geographically we are a large state and it seems like we have a good number of boys in the sport. I think the reason that at times we have relatively small groups is that they do break the age groups down. Like I mentioned, instead of an age group that is 7-8, they split that into 4 groups. So for instance my son's smallest meet there were 11 kids in his age group; but if they hadn't split the 7-8 year old age group up into 4 categories there would have been around 45 in his age group. At his largest meet it would have been 150+ in his age group instead of 40. It seems to me that in our area they do try to break the boys up like they do the girls, where it sounds like across much of the country they don't.

 

[skschlag]

That would be nice 2G1B! D's age groups in smaller meets were broken out, but at the big invitationals, his age groups were HUGE. I remember discrepancies like 11 8-9 yo, 24 12+, and 50-60 10-11 yo. Seemed to happen way too much.

 

[2G1B]

That really stinks. Especially if they only go out for places 1-3 (which they only do here if there are only like 6 kids in the age group - it seems that 30 - 40% is the norm around here). I know that it isn't all about winning; but if you have the most "popular" age group having 50 kids, and only 3 of them placing and then the smaller age groups with like 10 kids... well it really stinks for the poor kids who just happen to have gotten into/good at the sport at a younger age. :-( Because really, I think they all want to win at least some of the time!

 

[skschlag]

It can be discouraging. Regionals was 15/45/19. sigh. Luckily they went out more places than 3!!

But I agree. I think, even though we know awards aren't the point, they do let the boys see a reward for their hard work. And this is one hard sport!!